Was it just me, but I found the judge's conducting far too flamboyant for the duet at the end?

I thought she did very well, sweeping the music along where it needed to and managing the rubato bits where the singers had free rein in masterly fashion. Still, I've never played with an orchestra, so may well be wrong.

I accept that but we are not talking about one the worlds great Double bassits are we...A BBC Orchestra Principal chair is NOT the Berlin Philharmonia...Apart from me referring to him as a cellist and not a double bassist just shows how little impact as a musician he has had...

I am inclinned to agree with you as to the "Live" scenario but nevertheless Dominic Seldis's smugness/rudeness needs to be bought into check...he has neither the right or the wit to criticise a fellow professional who has I note had a far more interesting and international career than Mr. Seldis.

I think the producer is simply using Strictly Come Dancing as a model (nice judge / nasty judge). The only two whose opinion I'm interested in are Simone (Arlene?) and Roger (Len?) and they are the two we hear least from.

I have enjoyed and squirmed at this all at the same time...I have no issue with the celebrities doing their bit, it's entertaining and informative and their not so glowing moments demostrate the tension they are experiencing trying to learn to do what in all honesty is a very difficult thing to do and which takes years to master. I have no objection to Katie Derham or Jane Asher looking sensational, katies frock last week, the brown was breathtaking and she looked every inch the lady she probably is (exception allowed for expletive outburst in rehearsal film), Jane Asher who is looking equally sensational at 60 dressed with equal elegance and I find nothing wrong with that. Sue Perkins looks very business like and has not dissapointed us yet and as for Goldie well he is I suspect the find of the decade..who would have thought it...(lesson for me to be learnt here...Don't judge a book by it's cover). I suspect that Goldie if he holds it together will win, the orchestra like him and he tries so hard...

What I do however object to is not the critiques offered by two of the highly experiened judges Sir Roger Norrington and Simone Young from the State Opera but the sheer affrontary of the Double Bass player Dominic Seldis who by sheer luck has found himself where he is and has the gaul to criticse the mentors who are doing all the work. Last night when he said he was going to "Have words" with Katie Derhams mentor about what he was doing was frankly unprofessional, insulting and showed no respect for the people who are actually doing the work. The mentor looked rightly horrified and offended and I would be having word with old clever clogs Dominic myself if I were him. How dare he attack someone who cannot respond on live television...its scandelous, shows no class and exposes the him the judge for the wittless buffoon he probably is. Talk about being full of himself and his own self importance...The other judge Zoe Matlew at the other end was actually heard to say in the first week about (katie Derham) that she had a face that made her want to slap her...Whoa...this is way too personal an attack and is unacceptable, it was not about faces but music I thought. I suspect that the Lovely Sir Roger Norrington is mortified by these antics from this duo and that the Simone Young must have wondered what she has found herself in the middle of...by the way as some have mentioned what the competitors are wearing, particularly Katie Derham and Jane Asher I would like to say that though I liked Simones Youngs conducting, the two piece trouser suit she was wearing did nothing for her it was far too tight..., Shiney fabrics are the very death of a less than perfect figure and though she has a good figure you have to be absolutey flawless to get away with a fabric like that, that tight....That is not a criticism but an honest Observation...The wardrobe people should have advised her that the lights and cameras would be very critical and that she would be very exposed not conducting in an orchestra pit.

Great idea BBC, sort the judges out and have people who have not just knowledge, which all the judges must have, but grace and wit as well to sit in judgement. This is not the X factor or Britains Got Talent and deserves a little more considered class in it's judgements. The mud slinging and personal attacks are neither professional or helpful but are in fact intended to be sensational and shocking...it falls flat on its face right then and there and the BBC should pull it's collective head out of its nether regions and remove the Piers Morgan-esque style of commentary on the competitors performances. Should the BBC decide to do this again they should select the judges with greater care.It is quite possible to be witty without being insulting and as majority of the viewers will have not the first idea who the judges are or what proffesional standing they have attained I fear that they will view the comments as nothing other than ridicule and will not be encouraged.

Kindest regards

Andrew

I wish they would have more classical music centred programmes on. I really enjoyed classical star on the bbc last year and am really enjoying this, although I agree with the fact that there should be more showing them in rehersal. It looks so difficult. I really want Sue to win. Her and her mentor both seem really nice. I always feel a bit jealous when I watch programmes like this, knowing that I can't spend a few weeks with a top class mentor and have the opportunity to learn something amazing. It is a shame they don't go into more detail about the art conducting as I was unable to tell why Simone's conducting was so good.

Was it just me, but I found the judge's conducting far too flamboyant for the duet at the end?

Incidentally I'm not sure why KD and JA have to wear such glamorous dresses - I don't think it helps much TBH. What Sue or the judge wore is much more appropriate IMHO......

I wish Clive Anderson would let all of the judges speak, instead of filling the valuable air time with his own one-liners

Absolutely the correct result, Sue Perkins was very convincing.. well done to her...

Andrew

I voted for Sue based on her performance last night and throughout the series, and I thought she deserved to win, but I must admit that when I watched the review of their progress, I thought that I really wouldn't mind either if Goldie won.

I think it was fair to assume that Sue would have a certain amount of musicality because of her grade 8 piano achievement, but not everyone who has achieved grade 8 could have developed the way she did as a conductor - her progress was wonderful to watch. But I do wonder whether Goldie would have progressed even further than he did, if he had also had the ability to, for instance, read music, or had ever listened to the sort of music that he was asked to conduct. I think this ties in a bit with the other thread on should children be taught to read music, which developed into a discussion on the teaching of music in schools. I'm very aware that my children are advantaged - if they want to learn an instrument then they can, if they show an aptitude for a sport then they can have lessons or join a club - these things are locally available and I can afford them. There must be kids out there who have the same innate ability, but never have the opportunity to even try certain things out, let alone take them up on a regular basis and develop that ability. I would imagine from reading a bit about Goldie that he was exactly one of those kids. The fact that he had got where he was before Maestro is pretty amazing, but this programme showed that there was a completely different musicality and talent in him that had never been tapped.

Sorry, have gone off topic here, but the programme last night did make me think.

....But I do wonder whether Goldie would have progressed even further than he did, if he had also had the ability to, for instance, read music, or had ever listened to the sort of music that he was asked to conduct.... The fact that he had got where he was before Maestro is pretty amazing, but this programme showed that there was a completely different musicality and talent in him that had never been tapped.

Please don't apologise crochetymum I think you are absolutely right...Goldie did a superb job and like you I wonder, along with many others how much further he could have gone had he been taught as a youngster to read music...

But is what Goldie HAS achieved, and the music he HAS created less valuable (not sure quite how to express that) because it isn't Western classical music? Is it possible that learning music in what we tend to class as the accepted way would have made him more constrained and less likely to do what he has?


I don't really have a view on the answer to this BTW, just throwing it up as a possibility...

OOOH the Devils Advocate

No you are quite right we do tend to assume that one type of music has more value than say drum and bass which is Goldies area of expertise...it fills a niche market and he is remarkably successful with it which is all to his credit but in this example I think the question is how much further he could have gone had he been able to read music...nothing is being taken away from Goldie, quite the reverse...I think seeing as he can't read music he did an extrodinary job...he oozed music from every pore...

I was very nearly tempted to vote, for the 1st time in my life. But I reckoned Sue would walk it anyway. Well done to her and her mentor, Jason Lai. It must have been a steep learing curve for all of them, whatever their musical background - doing the Beethoven from memory was no mean feat. I also enjoyed Sir Roger's William Tell, and, of course, Vengerov. Clive had even been persuaded to keep the gags short. Lots to enjoy in the programme, for a change.

Sorry to get in the way of what is (huzzah! Who'dve thought it, on an internet forum?) a thought-provoking, mature discussion, but I'm really glad Sue won ! She looked the strongest (in terms of consistently high marks) from the start, despite Goldie's obvious innate talent. It was clear they'd both be in the final, but although I wanted Sue to win, I thought Goldie would receive the most votes.

What! What! What!

Was Maxim Vengerov on this programme?????? And I missed him!!!

I think it's repeated tonight on BBC 4. so still chance (and there's always BBC iplayer so it will be there for the next week to watch on line)

He didn't play though, he conducted Brahms Hungarian Dance no 5, and was not able to make many enlightened comments due to Clive Anderson.

She is an enthusiastic amateur, keen to change the perception of classical music as being "uncool", but does not have much time for preciousness from classical music fans, particularly when it comes to the thorny question of clapping between movements. "If you are spontaneously driven to applaud somebody then great," she says, " I say lighten up!" The argument against clapping between movements is that it disrupts a work's cohesion, but Derham hints that it has more to do with musical snobbery. "There has been something of an invisible moat between performers and audiences, and anything that can bridge that moat is a good thing. The Proms is a democratic festival: you can come in from the park in your shorts and listen to Shostakovich. If a person who may never have been to a concert before wants to clap because they love the music, I say clap, and anyone who has got a problem with it should get out more."