I only managed to watch the program for 1/2 hour last week but last night managed to watch it all. I enjoyed it so much!!! soooo funny! Thought that Sue Perkins was excellent, a very eccentric way to conduct but it did work!!!
I fell sorry for Alex James as he seemed so nervous and completely out of his comfort zone. He always seemed so confident in Blur. I was glad when the piece was over for him as he didn't look confortable at all! Looking forward to next week show!!!

I don't understand what everybody's got against Katie Dereham I thought she was good

I'll never forget the momnet when newsreader Micahel Buerk got into trouble. Katie was reporting on the 'Oscar's' and Michael called her 'The best supported reporter' obviously referring to her figure.

Somebody needs to give Katie Derham a couple of hair grips and get that hair out of her eyes! And I find the way she wrinkles her nose annoying, very beatrix potter.

Great show though. But I missed the amount of detail we had last week at baton camp, when the episode was 90 mins long rather than last nights hour. It felt unbalanced just to have the live performance with so little detail of the build up to it. Do you think the BBC just doesn't quite have faith that peole want to watch a prog about classical music for a whole 90 mins every week? Shame, becuase I think it's a fab way to introduce people to it.

Quite entertaining for providing a laugh or two, though I wish they had gotten rid of that ghastly Bradley Walsh instead of David Soul (last night's offering) or even Alex James. Clive Anderson loves himself and if he'd stop his banal twittering , the judges would have more time and not have to be cut short on their comments. Katie is cute but lacks 'substance'; Goldie and Sue Perkins look the most 'professional' of the motley bunch so far. I think it is such a pity, however, that this concentrated TV/media exposure is given to these 'old has-beens' who already have established TV/radio careers, instead of some of our young more talented musicians in the Royal Colleges and Academies of music, up and down the British Isles, who will graduate and probably never get this type of exposure or chance to develop a career in music or the media. The BBC and commercial TV companies pander to the lowest common denominator of entertainment value in order to get their viewing figures up. OK it's a business and they need the revenue. There! I've got that off my chest now where's the Tylenol

Loved Sue last night, thought her hands and arms were clear and professional looking but just hope she doesn't get too bogged down in her slight washing machine impression.... but she has a great face and was brilliant.

Goldie was gorgeous as ever but I found his hands very distracting, lovely movement but those fingers were too busy! Very passionate performance though.

Yey for Bradley Walsh! Love that guy and hope he gets it together for next week. David Soul.... i had no idea where he was through the whole piece.... Alex James was tres cute but so nervous thought he had improved a lot. I'm not a fan of Katie I have to say. Jane Asher!! Ahh AWFUL!!! couldn't follow her beat and she was just dancing and throwing her baton around and they were right that is a really easy piece to conduct I think... she was terrible in my opinion.. hope she bucks up for next week but I'm not a fan.

Sue to win!!

what was the piece that david soul conducted called? I know I've played it but cant for the life of me remember what it's called. Its really bugging me.

I really liked Sue perkins, but she didn't really seem to be giving beats in a bar, more like poking at the air...
Jane Asher really annoyed me, but i did like Goldie.
x

"Adagio for Strings" by Samuel Barber

Chris

They've been filming at Trinity College of Music. It's been disasterous for my practice. I keep spending the day in the cafe, earwigging on the celebs, rather than doing any work!

Was I the only person who was hugely disappointed by the second programme??

I've only just finished watching it on iPlayer - I loved the first programme but this second one was pants... It's now an hour-long, X-Factor style, concert, of some good musicians who mostly ignore some slightly dodgy amateur conductors, rather than a programme *about* conducting like it was in the first week. There was absolutely no sense, from the pathetic 10-second intro clips, of how they were learning to do what they were doing. The judges kept making comments like 'you've greatly improved' - but we didn't find out WHAT they did in order to improve. In Alex James' intro clip for instance, they talked about him doing some Alexander Technique, and he did some silent conducting - well, what were those two things about? Why couldn't they tell us some more??

The musicians seemed to have been told to play what they wanted (probably pretty easy for pros with such well-known pieces) and ignore what the conductor was doing - whereas in the first programme, they were definitely trying to follow where the downbeats were.

It was, frankly, boring. If it goes on like this I will probably stop watching. I've seen dodgy conductors before.

Yes I got that impression too - none of the music sounded bad even though some of the conductors weren't great at all. The previous week the music definitely reflected far more what the conductors were doing.

I did enjoy the second programme and my (non-musician) partner found it absolutely riveting (he missed the first programme). But I too was a bit disappointed that it was shorter, felt rushed, and that they left out all the tuition sequences which were some of the most interesting sequences in the first programme.

I thought Sue Perkins was really good ... I could understand just what she was trying to communicate all the way through, even with no real knowledge of conducting. The end result sounded brilliant and I'm supposing this is a good thing to measure by.

When they pointed out (was it this week or last week?) that when you are conducting fast paced pieces, you need to make smaller movements I thought "oh yeah!" and felt like a real dunce for not figuring that one out before .... no wonder a couple of them were like "how can I get them to go faster?" to begin with . I'll just sit in the corner with a less party-fied version of this hat .

I was at the concert on Friday when Alfie Boe sang with the Scarborough Spa Orchestre, great concert. He said he is singing some Puccini in Maestro in 2 weeks with Bradley Walsh conducting, should be an interesting comparison!

Yes! A double dose of C**P.

Painfully true!


I thought that was rather lovely - the mentors were really with them on stage weren't they!

I've only seen one episode of it so far - lots of catching up to do - but thought it was very well done, the kind of thing that could be painful to watch but was actually interesting and informative as well as entertaining. Will be fascinating to see who ends up winning.

Sad to hear bad reports of the second programme though, will be sad if they start ignoring the actual learning of the celebs, that is the interesting bit.

They do!! Completely.

Didn't anyone watch last night's installment?

I thought the result was correct, though BW did a lot better this week. I'm still surprised JA gets marked as high as she does - she just looks stiff and uninvolved in the music. My guess is that Goldie or SP will win.

Hopefully, with fewer contestents, there'll be more time spent on the training going on in the background in future episodes.

Chris

I thought Bradley did a great job but shame he used the score. He improved massively and I loved his changed controlled attitude when he was conducting.

I thought Katie Derham was actually soo much better than she has been really enjoyed watching her and felt she communicated really well will chorus and orchestra, thought she deserved higher marks.

Wasn't as impressed with Goldie as I have been, felt they were generous with the marks there... and Jane Asher, well, still incredibly annoying and didn't seem to like the criticism she got her face was a picture but I totally agreed with Zoe's comments.

I am at a loss to see why Jane Asher is still there. I find her really stiff and unmusical and would not be happy playing in an orchestra under her baton at all. I thought that Bradley Walsh did a rather good job and seemed to be listening well and reacting to the sounds that the group produced. I was sorry to see him go. A much fairer test would be for them all to conduct the same test pieces of course but this might not make for such an interesting programme.

when is this on?

Each tuesday evening at 9 pm. BBC 2 I think.

Yes, also repeated on Thursdays at 11pm on BBC4 (see the weekly 'Music Programmes on TV' thread)

Triple actually, since BW is no longer in it! Why do people tell porkies like that - does nothing to enhance other peoples' perspective of them.

I enjoyed last night's programme. I thought BW was much improved and really seems to enjoy it, though as it was a choice between him and Alex James, I'm glad AJ was saved. I don't like watching Jane Asher - did she spend the first part of her performance with her eyes shut, or was I seeing things? I agreed with the criticism about her 'acting', but thought she took it on the chin - I'd have crumpled, I'm sure.

Yes, I thought Goldie rather lost the tension in the Carmina Burana in the middle of his piece, although he is very good generally. I think Sue will win, simply because she is very good at communicating with the orchestra and knows a lot more about the classical side of things. JA is extremely irritating - that Mambo last week was cringe-making. I thought the comment about the rehearsal - 11 times through the piece and a set of completely unvarying rehearsed gestures - was very telling. BW was heaps better, but still clowning around, for which alone he deserved to go - I was shouting at the telly with irritation! Alex surely won't survive another week - nice chap, but completely out of his depth. Katie much better and less grating this week, but the discussion about dresses was a bit fatuous - cover up and get on with it, girl. Sue, Goldie and Katie for the final three.

Yes I agree, it was embarrassingly awful! I thought JA was good the first week but I've come to like her less and less every week. I liked Goldie more this week - I thought the baton made him appear more focussed, and it suited him, he looked like a proper conductor It was amazing how much Alex had improved - if it's between him and JA or KD next week, I hope it's JA who goes. I really liked the choice of music this week.

Strictly Come Conducting!
Bit of a silly programme - but done for 'entertainment' as is the fashion now using 'celebrities'! Why not use the money spent on this sort of thing to help people who would really want to learn and go on to a career...?

It seemed to me that most of them, a lot of the time (JA for example with Mambo last week) are not conducting the orchestra but are being led by them.

This week the 'candidates' mostly left the orchestra to their own devices and looked at the choir. I wonder what brief the orchestra has? Have they been asked to be kind?
I have heard it said that if a lot of orchestras played what was conducted, the conductors would be out of a job - and that referred to professionals

We have tickets to see this being recorded this coming Monday (if we get there on time of course). My old chorus conductor is one of the mentors - he has Goldie.

Apparently one of the reasons Bradley Walsh was voted off was that he wasn't being very nice about either the choir or the orchestra - or so I'm told.

I hope Jane Asher goes out next, but I think it will probably be Alex James. His nerves seem to do him in.

Seen the latest instalment, and I'm inclined to agree with SueHM about who I'd like to see in the final three, at the moment.

If Alex James gets over his nerves, he may survive in the show a little longer. I'd like to see Jane Asher removed from the show next, if there's no improvement from her.

Shocking, that the BBC should use it's money for creating entertainment rather than funding education. What are they thinking of?

I think this programme is really a breath of fresh air, though so frustrating that they don't show more background on the preparations.

There's nothing wrong with entertainment, obviously. But where are the programmes that the BBC used to show (I'm talking about the 1960s and 1970s), that helped you to understand what music is about? And do they have to provide entertainment that is positively misleading, by giving the impression that conducting is all about waving your arms around in a way that looks impressive? As if Jane Asher hadn't already committed enough crimes against music by throwing out a lot of Paul McCartney's songs when they were living together ...

I thought a lot of the money is ours... if we pay our licence fees.

Entertainment/education...
the sort of argument put forward on the radio the other (Any Questions, I think) about spending £100million on paintings or should it go on hospitals.
Surely there's no definitive answer.

Yes she did and no you weren't! I hate it when musicians do that (some soloists do it a lot). I want them to communicate, not to go off and commune with their inner selves and shut me out.
I was really pleased to hear that discussion, not only because female conductors probably still have a problem with being taken seriously but also because what a conductor wears can make it easier or more difficult for the players to see the beat. Bear in mind that most of the time they will only see it with peripheral vision. I love to see a conductor in a plain dark top, and with a baton - all makes the player's job easier IMO. I was also very pleased to see that Katie had tied her hair back - it was flopping all over the place the previous week, just another potential distraction both for her and the players.

I don't mind so much if a musician feels the need to close their eyes, but I thought as a novice conductor she ought to be watching what/who she was conducting. If she spent too long communing with her inner self it could've been a shambles - or does it just go to show that the musicians know what to do perfectly well without her? As it was, she got told off for paying more attention to the singers than to the instrumentalists.

I hadn't thought at all about dress for the conductor from the musicians' point of view, though it makes perfect sense now you point it out

Was it me seeing things, or was Katie Derham getting her downbeat in completely the wrong place half the time, in the loud/male voice sections of the Mozart?? I could have sworn she was doing a bar of three in the middle, then getting back to 4, but in the wrong place. Maybe I dreamt it.

I liked her least, because of that. I'm not quite sure why all the judges think Goldie is soooo amazing, although he is one of the better ones - with Sue.

Looking forward to tonights opera. I am hoping Jane Asher bites the dust this week unless she has done some serious work during the week.

And I will be eager to see what they make of a concerto with a soloist the week after, following a soloist and conveying that to the orchestra is whole new can of worms.

(also looking forward to seeing the guest judge that week too )

Pleased to hear Alfie sing his Puccini even with not the conductor he was expecting, it wasn't so bad, was it?

I definitely like Goldie although the Mozart didn't go so well tonight, but he and Sue are definitely the best out of the bunch I think.

I like his voice and his diction is very good, but he doesn't quite let himself go enough to really put over the emotion. To be great, he would need to get off the concert stage, learn to act, and put his soul into it.

Still, he's quite a new find, and I hope there is more to come from him. He certainly has a lot of potential.

I was surprised that the orchestra saved Jane Asher - she must have more about her than came over to me tonight! I wish the judges had time to analyse the conducting more, and to show us why they think certain bits are good and other bits poor.

What exactly was it that went so badly wrong with Goldie's one? whatever it was, it went completely over my head

I very much enjoyed his singing, and that of Rebecca Evans too. I like Goldie's "stage presence", and I think he's the one who seems to have the most empathy with the orchestra. SP is a bit too intense for me.

Yes the best bit yesterday was the singers.

Sarah123 asks what happened to Goldie, well twice the orchestra and singers became completely out of synch, and it was Goldies fault. Hes a great bloke, but I think theres no stopping Perky now. Jane is unlikely to catch up, even though she was much improved yesterday.

I agreed with the result, even though Goldie had a bad night. One of the judges commented that he conducted the Mozart perfectly in rehearsal, so I reckon the orchestra saved him because they like him better overall. Although Goldie wasn't very clear at those tricky corners, I suspect it was one of those cases where something goes wrong in the performance which has never gone wrong before in rehearsal, and these things happen even to professionals.
JA was a lot better last night, she looked like she was conducting instead of acting at conducting, whereas KD seemed to be imitating JA's awful performance when conducting the Bernstein the other week. AJ just looked like his mind was on other things, perhaps not surprisingly.
SP is definitely the favourite now.
Chris

I agree. I think Sue will win this by big margin . Katie let herself down both in rehersals, no need for all the profanity, and in the performance. Goldie did OK but seems very subdued. The orchestra vote was, IMO, the correct one.

Was it just me, but I found the judge's conducting far too flamboyant for the duet at the end?

It was his beating of the quaver upbeat entries which came unstuck - it's not easy to bring an orchestra in on a short upbeat and he really didn't quite get it last night which was a shame as I think he's very musical so it was a technical aspect which let him down......

Incidentally I'm not sure why KD and JA have to wear such glamorous dresses - I don't think it helps much TBH. What Sue or the judge wore is much more appropriate IMHO......

I always said Sue would win it

Shame about Goldie, as he's looked pretty strong before: but it looked as though nerves got to him, he looked quite shaken after he'd finished.

They've finally got rid of Katie that pre-piece video was awful!

I agree, I think the singers were the best part (though I usually hate opera) - their final duet was gorgeous.

I wish Clive Anderson would let all of the judges speak, instead of filling the valuable air time with his own one-liners: that way people wouldn't be so indignant when the judges who haven't had time to justify themselves mark harshly.

I have enjoyed and squirmed at this all at the same time...I have no issue with the celebrities doing their bit, it's entertaining and informative and their not so glowing moments demostrate the tension they are experiencing trying to learn to do what in all honesty is a very difficult thing to do and which takes years to master. I have no objection to Katie Derham or Jane Asher looking sensational, katies frock last week, the brown was breathtaking and she looked every inch the lady she probably is (exception allowed for expletive outburst in rehearsal film), Jane Asher who is looking equally sensational at 60 dressed with equal elegance and I find nothing wrong with that. Sue Perkins looks very business like and has not dissapointed us yet and as for Goldie well he is I suspect the find of the decade..who would have thought it...(lesson for me to be learnt here...Don't judge a book by it's cover). I suspect that Goldie if he holds it together will win, the orchestra like him and he tries so hard...

What I do however object to is not the critiques offered by two of the highly experiened judges Sir Roger Norrington and Simone Young from the State Opera but the sheer affrontary of the Double Bass player Dominic Seldis who by sheer luck has found himself where he is and has the gaul to criticse the mentors who are doing all the work. Last night when he said he was going to "Have words" with Katie Derhams mentor about what he was doing was frankly unprofessional, insulting and showed no respect for the people who are actually doing the work. The mentor looked rightly horrified and offended and I would be having word with old clever clogs Dominic myself if I were him. How dare he attack someone who cannot respond on live television...its scandelous, shows no class and exposes the him the judge for the wittless buffoon he probably is. Talk about being full of himself and his own self importance...The other judge Zoe Matlew at the other end was actually heard to say in the first week about (katie Derham) that she had a face that made her want to slap her...Whoa...this is way too personal an attack and is unacceptable, it was not about faces but music I thought. I suspect that the Lovely Sir Roger Norrington is mortified by these antics from this duo and that the Simone Young must have wondered what she has found herself in the middle of...by the way as some have mentioned what the competitors are wearing, particularly Katie Derham and Jane Asher I would like to say that though I liked Simones Youngs conducting, the two piece trouser suit she was wearing did nothing for her it was far too tight..., Shiney fabrics are the very death of a less than perfect figure and though she has a good figure you have to be absolutey flawless to get away with a fabric like that, that tight....That is not a criticism but an honest Observation...The wardrobe people should have advised her that the lights and cameras would be very critical and that she would be very exposed not conducting in an orchestra pit.

Great idea BBC, sort the judges out and have people who have not just knowledge, which all the judges must have, but grace and wit as well to sit in judgement. This is not the X factor or Britains Got Talent and deserves a little more considered class in it's judgements. The mud slinging and personal attacks are neither professional or helpful but are in fact intended to be sensational and shocking...it falls flat on its face right then and there and the BBC should pull it's collective head out of its nether regions and remove the Piers Morgan-esque style of commentary on the competitors performances. Should the BBC decide to do this again they should select the judges with greater care.It is quite possible to be witty without being insulting and as majority of the viewers will have not the first idea who the judges are or what proffesional standing they have attained I fear that they will view the comments as nothing other than ridicule and will not be encouraged.

Kindest regards

Andrew

I think he's principal double bass of the BBC NOW.


It was outspoken, but that's what happens with a live program (I wonder if it's really live though)
It may have been rude, but I thought his point was valid - KD seemed to have picked up JA's bad habit of acting while conducting.

Chris

[quote name='ChrisC' date='Sep 3 2008, 06:15 PM' post='738720']
[quote name='A.U.K' post='738706' date='Sep 3 2008, 05:32 PM']
... but the sheer affrontary of the cellist Dominic Seldis who by sheer luck has found himself where he is ( Yo Yo Ma he ain't) and has the gaul to criticse the mentors who are doing all the work.
[/quote]
I think he's principal double bass of the BBC NOW.


[quote]
Last night when he said he was going to "Have words" with Katie Derhams mentor about what he was doing was frankly unprofessional, insulting and showed no respect for the people who are actually doing the work.
[/quote]
It was outspoken, but that's what happens with a live program (I wonder if it's really live though)
It may have been rude, but I thought his point was valid - KD seemed to have picked up JA's bad habit of acting while conducting.

Chris


I accept that but we are not talking about one the worlds great Double bassits are we...A BBC Orchestra Principal chair is NOT the Berlin Philharmonia...Apart from me referring to him as a cellist and not a double bassist just shows how little impact as a musician he has had...



I am inclinned to agree with you as to the "Live" scenario but nevertheless Dominic Seldis's smugness/rudeness needs to be bought into check...he has neither the right or the wit to criticise a fellow professional who has I note had a far more interesting and international career than Mr. Seldis.

Andrew