I've been reading all your posts with interest over the last few months, but finally decided to get round to posting. I've been playing since February, I took my Grade 1 in June and passed with distinction so I know that means I'm picking things up. I have a Howarth B, and although I love it I am thinking of upgrading after I take my grade 3, hopefully in November.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should choose my next model? Since it's going to be so much money I would love to be able to try before I buy, but I don't live near anywhere I could easily got to do this. I was thinking of maybe going to another Howarth model (my teacher has a Howarth oboe too, and she has let me try that) but would love to hear other people's experience with other models.

I'd appreciate any advice that you could all give me.

Welcome Sophoula, firstly congratulations on passing your first exam and getting a distinction, thats a wondeful result.

Buying a new or newer Oboe is a fairly big item to discuss and it is late so I will come back to this tomorrow morning...I just wanted to welcome you to Viva Woodwind and say hello...

There will be lots of opinions on what to buy so read carefully and don't rush into anything...

Regards

Andrew

I would say you don't need to change your instrument yet (unless you have money to burn and/or there's something wrong with your Howarth). A Howarth B is a good instrument and will keep you going for a while yet - I have someone working towards grade 6 on one, and it's fine for her.

You don't need a seriously better instrument until you get to grade 7/8 level.

(On the other hand, I have a Loree I'm trying to sell )

Hello Again,

I have to agree with Claire up to a point, at the moment there really isn't a need for you to change or upgrade your Oboe just yet, I will add that I do understand the desire/need for the best/better instrument, the tuning is usually far better and easier and the smoothness is generally accepted and expected to be better between the registers, the build quality is more detailed and the quality of the keywork is of a higher standard, usually more resiliant to the daily abuse and more ergonimcally sympathetic.

If you decide that you really want to upgrade then there are various points that I consider important, not everyone will agree with me which is fine that is their perogative.

Firstly buy as complete a keywork system as you can afford, left hand F is very useful and stops you over using the forked F which is not a true F. All the trill keys are very handy as you progress you will need them more and more...B-C linkage is handy though not standard on French instruments (the french consider it de riguer that you play the low C key with your right hand when you play low B-Bb) you could go the whole hog and have the Oboe descend to the Low A but that is really pushing it and to my knowledge only Loree do this at the moment but I could be wrong.

Internet purchasing....DO NOT BUY AN OBOE OVER THE INTERNET...it is far too risky, you could get a duff one, cracked even. It would probably need setting up and tweaking by a specialist Oboe technician and is not a job for the faint hearted or amatuer. Internet prices may seem cheaper but you will still have to spend money getting the instrument adjusted whereas if you buy from a specialist they will automatically do things as part of the purchasing contract and naturally you will have a warranty with a known second party. The internet is an invisible third party and having to send the Oboe back via the mail to have it looked at is simply not appropriate in my mind, far too many risks involved with an instrument costing several thoudands sending it via the mail or courier system.

Always when you are buying and Oboe take your teacher with you whenever possible or a more experienced Oboist who can advise you and play the instrument for you and give you their considered opinion. Oboes are notoriously fickle and slight problems may not be openly apparant to the untrained eye/ear. You cannot buy experience so a freindly bit of support makes the whole process much more pleasant and removes some of the risk element. Oboes can still have problems, cracks in the top joint, dodgey octave boxes, awkward screws etc the list goes on. If you or your parents are paying a fair few thousand for an Oboe its best to have the whole deal well and truely set up with a specialist dealer.

Conservatiore, Thumbplate or Dual System, well the choice is yours, it all depends on what you like or are used to, each system has its own qualities so its highly subjective...

The prinicipal makers are as follows...

T.W. Howarth, Chiltern Street London

http://www.howarth.uk.com/

F. Loree, Paris

http://www.loree-paris.com/

Cabart, Paris (part of Loree)

http://www.loree-paris.com/

Marigaux, Paris,

http://www.marigaux.com/english/?marigaux=instruments/

Strasser Marigaux (part of Mariguax)

http://www.marigaux.com/english/?marigaux=instruments/

Rigoutat, Paris,

http://www.rigoutat.com/

Fossati, Paris

http://www.fossati-paris.com/


Bulgheroni, Italy, sold in some shops as Sound Alchemy here in the U.K.You definitely want Bulgheroni and Not Sound Alchemy.

http://www.bulgheroni.it/home.asp?l=eng

Yamaha, Japan

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/List/M...;CNTYP=,00.html

Josef, Japan

http://www.josef-oboe.com/

Frank, Germany,

http://www.frankundmeyer.de/

Puchner Germany

http://www.puchner.com/

Buffet Crampon, Paris

http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instrumen...List&cid=11

I will add the company websites once I have finished this post and will edit them..

Good luck, don't rush into anything and always buy the Oboe not the maker...A good second hand professional Oboe might be a good idea, check the second hand lists at Howarths...the Oboes will be blown in which will save you a lot of work and hinder your practice at first.

Any further questions please ask I will do my best to advise you. Don't take what I say as gospel the above is purely my own opinion and will not necessarily be shared by everyone else...

I do wish you good luck and happy hunting, please keep us up to date with your progress and purchases.

Kindest regards

Andrew

Hello

Thanks for your advice, since I am so new to the instrument it's good to have a few different points of view from people who've been playing much longer than I have. My teacher did tell me there was no real need for me to upgrade for my exams, and that the instrument would be fine to get me through to much higher grades. The reason I am looking to upgrade so soon is really just for the reasons Andrew stated. I think being in a local band has made me realise that if I want to make a better sound then it may not just be about me practising, but also the instrument I have in my hand. I've discovered that with the different reeds I have been trying since I started. There is a definite difference in quality.

I have always wanted to play the oboe, but as a child the opportunity never presented itself. My parents could not afford to buy me an instrument and my school could not provide one for me therefore it passed me by. Whilst the sound my oboe is makes is lovely it is nothing as compared to the tone of my teacher's oboe. I just want to create as lovely a sound as possible and I know this will be helped by my having as best of an instrument as I can. My Howarth B was bought second hand, mainly to see if I took to the instrument at all since I was told there was a good chance I may not even get a note from it. Whilst it was by no means cheap it was cheaper than buying something more advanced. I've just rediscovered the joy of playing an instrument, and I think I'd just like to own the best one I can.

Sophie

Welcome to Oboeworld and congrats with the grade 1 distinction!


A better Oboe does make a better sound, but I couldn't tell a big difference when I upgraded because I don't notice changes in tone unless it's huge. If this doesn't improve, how am I going to upgrade next...? won't be for years though.

Yes, it is expensive... lots of people who want to play can't because of the expenses. No one in y7 took up the Oboe last year (lets hope someone will this sept AND STICK TO IT!!!), but when there was a demo in sept (going to be this year too), 1 or 2 people wanted to start. there are trusts out there who can help a lot but even then it's quite expensive because of the reeds and music and stuff.

Good Morning Sophie,

If it's tone you are after there is much you can do in the meantime whilst you look for another Oboe to improve the overall general tone you are getting on your current Oboe which will hearten you (I Hope).

Firstly the reed is of course paramount and having a good supply of them wil make your life much more bearable and practice a far happier period in your day. As I don't know what reeds you are playing on or whose for that matter I can only tell you that I used to play with a very pair of Oboists, both were having tone troubles so I put them onto a reed maker who transformed them, http://www.fortayreeds.co.uk/ , you can order online or actually speak to Steve or Lara who are both highly accomplished Oboists and Soloists, their reeds are excellent, hand made (purples) are beautifully made, (the Blues) have a slightly thicker rounded sound in my experience and are equally well made. They do offer a bespeoke service (Red Reeds) but they are going to be way to hard for you at the moment..(it is wise to play on as softer reed as possible to preserve your embouchure)...Anyhoo give them a call if you like...Lovely people who have looked after me for quite some time and from whom I have learned a huge amount....

Embouchure is a huge matter, and dare I add some suggestions...well ok yes I will...Most Oboists at first tend to grip the reed like a vice at first with the teeth aiding the pressure on the reed which is a huge NO NO..It must all come from the lips. Try to form a rounded OOOO shaped mouth, like you are puckering up to give someone a huge smacker of a kiss, then roll the lips gently in..DO NOT SMILE and go all thin lipped, the dreaded Oboe grimace mut be avoided at all costs. Keep the lips flexible and soft, only upping the pressure using the lip muscles and not the teeth as you rise through the registers...add to that more air and diaphragm support and imagine you are singing and just climb up the registers..Avoid tension in the throat and keep the embouchure relaxed...

Keep at it, most of what I have written you probably know already but it never hurts to reitterate things

Kindest regards

Andrew

A better oboe will of course make some difference to your tone, but possibly less than you might hope for at this point. A beginner oboist on a fabulous instrument will still sound like a beginner oboist! Your tone will develop as you play more and get used to harder reeds - and that takes time. And you also need to develop your muscles, so that you can support the sound better.

Claire is quite correct but an upgrade will be smoother...The muscles in the embouchure will influence the tone far more than the instrument...but it is LOVELY to have a super Oboe (I should Know )...And contray to what others may say it is NOT A FRENCH FENCE POST

Apologies for digressing..

Morning Claire,

Regards

Andrew

AUK - any recommendations for buying a Cor Anglais?
I can't decide whether to buy a £2000 one or whether I could risk as cheaper one on ebay (I would love to pay about £500 but I think thats unrealistic). Bought my Oboe from Crowthers and I love it!! but i'm still paying for it!.

Hello Laura,

I have to be honest I would be very wary of buying any instruments off E-bay though I do know of one or two success stories. It is a purchase full of risk and a possible waste of a considerable amount of money. Personally I wouldn't do it.

Far better to have a word with Ian Crowther (who you know already and who is a jolly nice man) and see what he has, alternatively talk to Mike Britten or Emma Gourlay and see what they have at Howarths, there is a list on the Howarth website of secondhand Instruments so check that out and have a look...You mention a figure of about £2000 which is near the mark for a secondhand Cor Anglias but you may need to go a little higher. You could check out the BDRS and see if anyone is selling their Cor through an advert there.

As for makes, well for me there is only Loree or Frank. Loree make fabulous Cor's they have an excellent reputation and I have not been dissapointed with mine, quite the reverse, it's beautiful and has a wonderful sound and is everything I would expect from a Loree Cor Anglais. I must add that if you are serious about buying a Cor which is seems you are then always think about re-sale in case you just don't use it enough and decide to re-sell it so go for one of the main makers as listed in my previous post..I would actually narrow it right down to Loree, Marigaux, Rigoutat and Frank but I must warn you that Frank are very VERY expensive and to buy new or secondhand you would have to go to Germany which if you go this route I would strongly advise. Equally you could try Puchner who though more known for Bassoons do make very good Oboes and Cor Anglais and not being one of the big hitters they maybe a little more reasonable...

All that aside don't rush into anything and have a good hunt around...any other questions please feel free to ask away and have a chat with your teacher..if you can get them to go with you to see a few Cors that would the best thing. Its a big purchase and for heavens sake insure both the Oboe and the Cor Anglais, they can get stolen very easily...

Regards

Andrew

Soph,

Andrew is quite right to point out how risky it is to buy an oboe on Ebay, but......

I have just bought a secondhand Howarth S40 on Ebay and it's a cracker. I'm close to your standard and in reality didn't need an upgrade at all yet, but the desire for all those lovely add-ons B-C link, LH F etc. has had me keeping an eye on secondhand instruments almost since I started. When this one came along it was too much to resist. It was a lot of money (more than I ever thought I'd be prepared to bid on Ebay) and gave me some worries after I'd put in the bid ("have I been stupid..."?) etc. but I did my homework first.

1. Get as much information as possible about the instrument - ask questions, get extra photos. I was able to ascertain that this was fairly newish, recently bought by the vendor and fully serviced and inspected (no cracks) by Howarth. Don't buy anything with sketchy or "strange" descriptions. Don't buy something that is really cheap - I've seen some Lorees for silly money on Ebay and you have to wonder why.

2. Find out about the vendor. It's surprising what Google can throw up about an individual once they have some web presence and I was pretty happy that the vendor in this case was genuine. Check for feedback from previous sales too. The way a vendor communicates can also give some clues if they are genuine. To be honest I was more worried about the whole thing being a scam rather than the oboe being duff.

3. Don't go mad on the price. I got this one a lot cheaper than I have seen it advertised secondhand in the specialist shops, which gave me some comfort that even if it did need tweaking, I wouldn't be out of pocket. In fact to be honest, I didn't expect my bid to win it but to my amazement no-one else bid.

So, it can be done, but you need to be very careful and you need a strong stomach! One way to reduce the risk is to go for local sales. I've done this with several instruments (including the oboe my new S40 replaces - a Buffet Artiste). At least it means you can see the instrument before buying it and check that it matches the condition specified in the listing. If it doesn't, you're well within your rights to walk away.

Now, I suspect your Howarth B is a far better instrument than my Buffet - I bet it has better intonation across the range for a start, so maybe you don't need to think about upgrading yet. But as Andrew said, there is something nice about a good instrument and my S40 just feels so nice and even as a novice I can tell it has a much fuller tone and more even intonantion than my (admittedly much cheaper) Buffet. I also play the melodeon (button accordion) and have cheap and expensive ones. I probably don't need to say which gets played.

As for what to get, (careful here with my opinion as I don't have much experience with oboes), I did a lot of research there too and there appeared to be 2 highly recommended oboes - the Howarth S40 and Cabart 74 with a good word too for the Rigoutat RIEC and Fossati Thiery E30. Anything below that sort of level probably wouldn't be a worthwhile upgrade. The Fossati looks great value (it's full Gillet including the split D ring) but I've only found one place selling them and have never actually seen one. I think Lizbun plays (or played) one of these.

Good luck with Grade 3 in Nov. I'm contemplating the same.

Roy.

I think you're right to be cautious of Ebay, AUK but it's worth pointing out that ebayers are risk takers. If I buy any instruments of Ebay, and I have bought a 2nd hand sop sax, a plastic clarinet for outdoor playing etc., you need to make sure that if it's not what you expect, you can sell it on, and get your money back. Also, with Paypal, if you are mis- sold your instrument, you are covered. Yes, Ebay is a risk, and instruments rarely reach their full value, but don't discount it.

Laura T- with cors, try everything you can get your hands on. Yes, Lorree make lovely cors, but so do Howarth... Rgoutat... and so on. As someone said before, go for the cor/ oboe, not the brand.

AUK... please add Buffet to your list of manufacturers...! My pro model's just seen me through an MMus in performance, and we're rather fond of each other!

x

An Oversight on my part, the matter is rectified...Congratulations on your MMus

TTFN
x

May I also add that it was just not buying off E-bay but buying an Oboe over the internet full stop...

I simply would not reccomend it to anyone except a collector or skilled technician...you will most certainly have to have the Oboe serviced and inspected by an Oboe technician, add to that the problem you will face if the instruments turns out to be stolen and your vendor vanishes, you lose your Oboe and your money and may well find yourself up a creek without a paddle let alone an Oboe.

To those who have bought over the intenet and got lucky I am pleased for you, I remember oh so well when Notmusicmum was after an E-bay Oboe, the phone calls the angiush and the worry. Thankfully it all turned out well but it could so easily have been another story..For me at least there are just too many "IF'S"..

Fossati make excellent instruments but always consider re-sale...People tend to go for the main makers and their instruments hold their price better...

You could also consider Fox (American) Laubin (American) though the waiting list for Laubins is huge new or secondhand, we are talking years here...a new Laubin will cost you and you will wait close to 8-10 years for it...they are considered that good. Personally I don't think any Oboe is worth that kind of wait, if you want a high degree of bespoke about your Oboe then go to Frank in Germany...they are exquisite and have tuning to die for. Alternatively like me you could make do with a Loree Royal 125 and just rub along

Regards funsters

Andrew

I've not quoted all of the post but I could have written most of it.

I bought a secondhand S40 for my Daughter almost a year ago. I went through virtually the same process as Pushpull. Got extra photos, extablished the seller genuine, contacted Howarth's about the age of the Oboe etc.

It was considerably less than I would have paid elsewhere. There were a few sleepless nights until it actually arrived. I got it checked straight away but it didn't need anything at all doing ot it. It's having it's first service next wek but it's had a lot of use over the last few months.

The key to buying off ebay is homework. The first thing I bought was a slightly dodgy Recorder (it has been put right). Luckily the Alto Sax and Bass Recorder which I purchesed have both been as described.

Soph,

Andrew is quite right to point out how risky it is to buy an oboe on Ebay, but......

I have just bought a secondhand Howarth S40 on Ebay and it's a cracker.



Mmm, I'm v .jealous. I've been looking at the S40, it's what my teacher has and it just sounds so much better than mine (though mine is lovely!) She also warned me that she had to borrow the money for it 3 years ago so in essence is still paying for it now. I've been thinking it may well be what I will go for. I'm also thinking it may just be an idea if I can't get what I know to be a good second hand instrument it's probably worth a weekend in London when I do come to buy. At least that way I can actually visit the Howarth shop and maybe try a few different models to get an idea. Also someone has told me that if I do well in my Grade 3 they will contribute some money to be maybe getting a much better model but I guess that'll depend on me.

Thanks so much for all your advice, it's given me lots to think about.

And Roy, good luck with your preparation for Grade 3 as well as the exam. I'd love to know what pieces you have chosen, and how you get on with these as well as the result. After all, the preparation is all part of the fun ...... I think

Also bear in mind that Howarths (and others) are on the "Take it Away" scheme which gives you up to £2000 interest free for 9 months.

I just posted on the other thread, but briefly it'll probably be something from "Oboe Music to Enjoy", maybe the Handel Cm Sonata Bouree and a Hinke study.

Roy.

Roy I have a feeling that the Take it Away Scheme is for children in Education only and is not available to adults...I could have the wrong end of the stick though, it wouldn't be the first time...

Andrew

No, I think it's for anyone. Howarth's mentioned it to me, and it was clear that I was buying the oboe for myself, and that I'm not a child in education!

Yes it's actually aimed at adults ("anyone over 18").
http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/takeitaway

I fully intended to use it myself before receiving the great news that my mortgage was at last paid off

Well so it is...I stand corrected...

A somewhat belated addition to this thread as I have been away without internet access.


Have you heard your teacher playing your oboe? I am like you in that I wanted to learn the oboe as a child but didn't get a chance to do so at school and started as an adult with a cheap plastic oboe. My teacher could get a lovely sound out of this oboe and I also got to hear it played by one of the teachers from the top Paris Conservatoire (he came to give a masterclass and my teacher had told him that I had a surprisingly good plastic oboe and he asked if he could try it). It was therefore very obvious to me that the poor tone when I played it could not be blamed on the instrument . That said, I did decide to upgrade it to a wooden one after having several lessons where I used my teacher's oboe while mine was away having a pad replaced. Although my tone on my teacher's oboe was not really any better the oboe itself was much easier to play; it was less resistant/easier to blow (not really sure how to put this sensation into words), the little finger keys were slightly differently positioned and were more comfortable, it was perfectly in tune with itself (mine had a slightly sharp 2nd octave A which I had to remember to compensate for).


I bought a second-hand Ward and Winterbourne from John Myatt's almost a year ago for £1 500.



I agree with Claire they are very hard to play well. I have been working on a number of them on and off for the past year and have yet to play a whole one in a satsifactory way. Initially I found I kept stumbling over which octave I was supposed to be playing and tuning was a problem with some of the big leaps. A year on I no longer have trouble with the notes themselves but I still can't make it sound like there are two voices.

Yes I have heard my teacher play my oboe, she was playing mine when I played hers. I guess it's difficult since when you are playing you don't necessarily know exactly what you sound like. She did sound lovely on my instrument, but equally I think I sounded better on hers. The sound seemed richer to me (though I suppose I could have been imagining it.) And there is nothing wrong with my oboe, I know it is a good instrument, I think it's just a vanity decision really.

And I have been promised that if I do well in my next exam I will be given some money towards a new one so I guess I should just be working on that.

I definitely recommend Marigaux cors, I got mine (second hand) this time last year and it's brilliant - better I would say than a comparable new Howarths one, even though its going on 30!

Re. buying from Ebay, it really does depend, as somebody else said, on doing your homework first and knowing a bit about it all.

We don't all live within easy travelling distance of huge music shops. Provided you're careful, I don't see any problem with Ebay.

Last year there was a Rigoutat Expression in France for sale and I decided to bid for it. Exchanging emails with the seller, I discovered he was an oboe teacher at the conservatoire, had his own website, and was selling the oboe on behalf of a student who'd moved abroad. Given his fast and accurate replies, willingness to supply more photos and personal assurance that the oboe was in perfect condition, I was more than a little annoyed to be beaten by another bidder at the last moment.


Steve

I wouldn't rule out Ward and Winterbourne altogether. They are considerably cheaper than Marigaux, Loree etc. and I think worth considering for someone who is not aiming to play professionally. My teacher has a Rigoutat cor but when he tried my Ward and Winterbourne one he said he thought it had a richer tone than his in the lower register, that the upper register was the same in both and that overall he preferred mine.

Agreed. And they certainly are more affordable, especially if you're not convinced how much playing it will actually see...