Hi All,

I'm new to the forum but would like some advice from all of you, particularly those who have re-used a piece from a previous exam. I am re-taking the DipABRSM this coming quarter (for both the recital and the quick study sections) since my last one turned out to be a complete disaster. My viva voce section scored very well, though, so I will carry the credit over to this exam. Since this is a re-take on my part, I want to be absolutely safe :-) so I'm considering using an optinal choice as part of my program - the Debussy first Arabesque. It's probably considered an "over-performed" piece and I used it for Grade 8. But I scored very well (I think I got full credit) for this piece and I'm very comfortable with it. However, it appears (from the messages on this board) that it's heavily frowned upon to "recycle" a piece. Here's my complete program and I'd appreciate all your advice.

Bach Prelude & Fugue BWV 861
Mozart Sonata in C K309
Brahms Intemezzo in A, Op118 No2

Debussy Arabeque #1 (optional choice)
or
Rachmaninoff Prelude in G Op32 No.5
or
Stravinsky Tango

I've been playing the Rach prelude quite a bit faster (which I like) then originally so I may actually have to do both Rach & Stravinsky.

Welcome to the forum.

There is nothing wrong with recycling a piece. A masterpiece deserves ongoing study, and one can always learn something new about a piece no matter how many times s/he has already performed it.

BUT...

It is important for an advanced student to explore and be comfortable with performing a wide range of repertoire. Thus, for pedagogical purpose, I would be against a student recycling a previous exam piece for another exam.

BESIDES...

A 30/30 on the Grade 8 exam does not necessarily translate into a distinction or high pass at the diploma level because the expectation is so much higher. Also, the examiners may frown upon a piece that is not at diploma standard.

Thanks Organ. I think your last pt about using a piece that's clearly a sub-standard piece is well made -- the problem in my case is that I'm using a piece that's grade level. It might make me look really desperate. I will likely just focus on polishing up the Rach and the Stravinsky then.

In any case, I'm still interested in hearing about other experiences of reusing pieces and they turned out.

Are you even allowed to? I know with the Trinity lot you may not submit an own choice piece that you have already used for a lower exam, or that appears on the syllabus at a lower level, and I would have thought the same applies with the AB.

I think for ABRSM it is OK, but clearly during the viva they may ask you to justify this choice of piece from the graded list and describe why you feel it is worthy to be included on a diploma programme. Often the safe route is simply to choose from the prescribed list. One less thing to possibly fail on...

I've said it before and I'll say it again - for instruments with smaller repertoire than piano, there are works listed on the diploma syllabus which have been set for grade exams: it's the standard of performance which is key, not the level of difficulty (although it goes without saying that this has a part too).

I would have thought a Grade VIII piece might just about be acceptable as an own-choice work (some of them are fiendish to play!) but I'd be inclined either to check with the AB that it's OK to offer the Arabesque in question as an own work or to stick to works from the published repertoire list. There are plenty of great works on the piano diploma list.

You mention timings. How close are you to the 35 minutes +/-10%? Remember to factor in a short breather between works to change music, switch between styles &c. Would including some repeats in the Mozart remove the need for an extra work?

Well, I recycled a Grade 5 piece (Mozart's Andante in C ) for my diploma and passed. There are examples on the flute list of pieces which have no movements harder than Grade 6 or 7 in standard (Handel Sonata in G; Mathias Sonatina). All the Mozart concerto movements on the Dip syllabus have been set for either Grade 7 or Grade 8 in the past.

One thing to be taken into account is the overall standard of the programme. If it includes works which require greater technical expertise than Grade 8 then it is reasonable to balance these with works where the main difficulty is in the interpretation.

It is true that Trinity don't let you re-present a piece that you have already used in a different exam, but so far as I can see the AB has no such restriction. The bottom line is that if you play well enough you will pass, and if you play exceptionally well you will earn a Distinction - irrespective of the repertoire.

But I would not play the Debussy Arabesque. It is just too easy, so you are giving yourself no margin of error. I think if the AB publish something relatively easy on the syllabus, then picking that is fair game, but if it is an own choice piece I would not risk it.

The Rachmaninoff is a far better choice from this point of view. It is actually on the syllabus, and although long stretches are straightforward there are enough tricky corners to put it in a different league so far as the technical challenge is concerned.

(Having said all that, I myself was thinking of presenting Seville from Albeniz' Spanish Suite ... superficially it looked about the right level of difficulty, but it has actually turned out to be quite easy to learn, with no serious challenges - unlike the Rachmaninoff Prelude where I still struggle with - amongst other things - the section with the 5-tuplet arpeggio-figures in the left hand v. 4 quavers of 2-part counterpoint in the right. Just playing it is not enough - it has to sound effortless - like Shimkus'great performance that you can find on YouTube. Perhaps I'll change my mind again. There is always Szymanowski Op 4 No 3. Not difficult, sounds great, and it is on the list)

I don't like the Stravinsky piece in the slightest so nothing else to say on that.

Good luck.

I love that piece! I played it for my piano DipABRSM in 2005 and really enjoyed doing so. Some of the chords are a bit of a handful (quite literally) but it's an easy piece to perform well if you like it because it's already full of so much character.

Thank you everyone for your responses.

The reason I even brought this up in the first place is what Mad_Tom and Deborah have pointed out - that if an optional choice is allowed per policy, then it should be fair game to use one. The regulations state that playing an own-choice piece should not give the candidate any advantage. I might add that it should also not put a candidate at a disadvantage. The contention here (and primarily my own concern) is that the Arabesque is probably too "technically" easy (although in terms of touch, tone, colors, etc., it could get quite interesting). And I am tending to agree with the folks here that it is not suitable for my program.

Yes - I agree the Rach prelude is not an easy piece to master, especially having heard Rach's own brilliant performance -- exceptionally romantic but in a sparkly, effervescent way.

But I also like the Stravinsky, obviously.

I haven't timed each piece separately, but a program of 4 pieces (Bach, Mozart, Brahms, Rach ) from beginning to end including "breathing" time in between gives me around 32 mins at the moment, which is just acceptable for a Dip duration. I think that adding one more might be stretching it a bit (the Tango is about 4 mins the way I'm playing now), so I might just stick with 4 and take a teeny bit more liberty with the tempi of some of them and my own "breathing" -- I think there's room. However, I do not plan to take repeats in the Mozart.

Ah ha

But if you are only resitting your performance and your quick study and planning to carry forward your mark from your programme notes / viva voca the examiner won't actually be asking you about your selected programme will he?

Thus the question of having to or being able to 'justify' the inclusion of a piece (such as the Arabesque) won't arise, will it

You'll be marked on how you actually play the programme and it's technical difficulty being appropriate. In my opinion, without the chance to talk about your selection procedure you'd be much safer sticking with list pieces in this instance as you are not going to have the opportunity to explain your programme.

Seems kinda odd that you can pass with a viva voca on pieces that are not the ones you are actually playing for the exam but that does seem to be the case

Ah ha

But if you are only resitting your performance and your quick study and planning to carry forward your mark from your programme notes / viva voca the examiner won't actually be asking you about your selected programme will he?

Thus the question of having to or being able to 'justify' the inclusion of a piece (such as the Arabesque) won't arise, will it

You'll be marked on how you actually play the programme and it's technical difficulty being appropriate. In my opinion, without the chance to talk about your selection procedure you'd be much safer sticking with list pieces in this instance as you are not going to have the opportunity to explain your programme.

Seems kinda odd that you can pass with a viva voca on pieces that are not the ones you are actually playing for the exam but that does seem to be the case

Ah ha

But if you are only resitting your performance and your quick study and planning to carry forward your mark from your programme notes / viva voca the examiner won't actually be asking you about your selected programme will he?

Thus the question of having to or being able to 'justify' the inclusion of a piece (such as the Arabesque) won't arise, will it

You'll be marked on how you actually play the programme and it's technical difficulty being appropriate. In my opinion, without the chance to talk about your selection procedure you'd be much safer sticking with list pieces in this instance as you are not going to have the opportunity to explain your programme.

Seems kinda odd that you can pass with a viva voca on pieces that are not the ones you are actually playing for the exam but that does seem to be the case

Ah ha

But if you are only resitting your performance and your quick study and planning to carry forward your mark from your programme notes / viva voca the examiner won't actually be asking you about your selected programme will he?

Thus the question of having to or being able to 'justify' the inclusion of a piece (such as the Arabesque) won't arise, will it

You'll be marked on how you actually play the programme and it's technical difficulty being appropriate. In my opinion, without the chance to talk about your selection procedure you'd be much safer sticking with list pieces in this instance as you are not going to have the opportunity to explain your programme.

Seems kinda odd that you can pass with a viva voca on pieces that are not the ones you are actually playing for the exam but that does seem to be the case

How very odd ... my post seems to have cloned itself!!

That is alarming ..... before long the whole forum might be overcome by an army of tiny musicman NZ all posting wildly

....it wasn't me ... I promise

It looks like you tried to post just after the forums went down (they go down between about 1.05 and 1.37 every night ), and probably pressed the post reply button more than once while it wasn't working, meaning that whe the forums came back again, there were two posts.

musicmanNZ is correct: I will be carrying credit forward from the last viva and so presumably will not need to have to answer any question pertaining to my program, which is completely new since I decided to start with a clean slate. I haven't at all prepared for this viva, but I guess I should be OK taking a few impromptu/casual questions.

Hello pricelessSmile.

I passed my diploma and my programme included the Arabesque. I really thought I'd made a mistake in recycling it before the result came, but it actually fitted in well with my programme, according to the examiners.

I think if you want to play it, you should try and do something a little different with it than you did with your grade 8 exam and notch it up to diploma standard. PM me if you want more details!

You can always edit two or three of them to say something different!

Thanks nmlj! At the moment, I'm actually scrambling to find out what happened to my application! I have not heard anything and my local rep has not responded to my email and phone inquiries. I even called the London office and spoke with someone who said that they couldn't find my latest application in the system. I was supposed to hear back from the US coordinator but have not...very disappointed and frustrated at this point...I was all geared up for this exam and it looks like it might not happen.