Can someone advise me what to do about my teacher. I am an adult learner and I was recommended a teacher by someone who said this person was a brilliant teacher who specialised in adults. She teaches piano in a university, she was registered as a mentor on the ABRSM cert teaching course though she was only used once. She has a bachelor degree in music, a masters and is currently working on a PHd in composition, her knowledge is second to none. She has studied performance and is extremely competent pianist.
I have been going to her for three and a half years and in all that time she has never once listened to me play all my scales, we never do sight reading, and I have just been entered for my Grade 6 exam, she didnt listen to my pieces through before entering me (they were not secure at all) and I only received 15 mins of aural tuition in the penultimate lesson before the exam. My confidenc fell apart and I gave up on the exam after my first piece it was so bad.
Whenever we looked at other pieces in the lessons we only ever did about 2 or 3 lines and I never got to play a piece through.
How can this teacher know what i'm like from 2/3 lines of playing.
Prior to starting me on my Grade 6, my teacher had only ever listened to me play about 3 pieces from beginning to end, and then at most only once through.


Does this sound like a good teacher to you she certainly has all the qualifications! Advice please someone

Hearing that about a teacher does concern me a bit.

What do you do during lessons? How long and how often do you have a lesson?

I have alesson every week unless she cancels it which she often does, but my lesson is an hour.
We generally start looking at a piece then maybe on the third line she will want to go into detail on something and we can spend most of the lesson then just looking at perfecting a few bars.

Car, I am sorry you feel dissatisfied with your lessons. A couple of things to remember are; qualifications alone do not make a good teacher, there are countless stories of well qualified teachers who can't teach and vice versa (overly academic teachers could even be perceived lacking practical skills, not that it applies in this case); and most importantly it is impossible to judge another teacher's competence from their teaching style, everyone has their own reasons for doing things.

The only possible cause for concern is your lack of confidence eg poor exam experience. Maybe this teacher is not inspiring you. Only you know for sure.

Does it not seem strange to you that I only got 15 mins of aural for grade 6 I used to have regular aural lessons with my old teacher when working towards an exam and she listened to my scales every lesson.

I have the option of going to another teacher however she hasn't trained in piano she is a singer, but has also done a Diploma in Piano. Do you think that matters?

I think sometimes you need to tell the teacher what you want to work on.

Perhaps one of the differences between being adult learners and not children is that we are expected to be self motivated to practice and self critical. Personally, I never feel that my half-hour lesson is long enough, so I try and remember to mention the things I have trouble with early on in the lesson.

Car

I couldn't say if your teacher is good or bad, but I think the only way forward for you is to have a frank discussion with your her: explain that you have lost confidence and would like her to restructure lessons to be of broader scope and cover the areas that you would like assistance on. You are paying for the lessons and should be getting pleasure from them! If she cannot react positively to such an approach, there is little point in continuing.

Personally, I often ask my teacher to cover areas where I feel I need assistance, or just where I want to learn more about musical matters, eg improvisation, conducting techniques, etc.

Good luck

I am confused. Another teacher that you could possibly go to is not trained in piano, and yet she has a diploma in piano. How did that happen?

Anyway, in reading your original post, I feel that your teacher is probably inexperienced in teaching at the elementary and intermediate levels and with preparing students for practical exams.

Just wondering: Is your teacher from the UK, and is she familiar with all aspects of the AB exams?

I tend to agree with what organ dummy said, I think she is probably very experienced in teaching the advanced students and assumes that scales etc are being practiced as a matter of course for warm up every day.


The best teacher in the world will not suit everyone, different characters need different methods and you are obviously feeling isolated and concerned about the lessons so maybe it is time for you to look elsewhere.
If the alternative teacher that you could go to plays the piano to diploma standard and is a singing teacher, ask her how many piano students she has and if you like her - go for it. Don't let this negative grade 6 experience put you off, enjoy playing and enjoy the music, that is far more important than any exam.

Ultimately, it's not about whether someone is a 'good teacher' or a 'bad teacher'. It's about 'is this person a good teacher for me?' - and if the answer is no, then it doesn't matter how qualified they are, how many other people think they are the best teacher in the world, and so on.

I agree.

It's been said in other threads too, that there's no harm in going for a trial lesson with another teacher. You don't have to change, but seeing how someone else teaches you might be a good way to have something to compare your current teacher. After all, having a lesson with another teacher might show up that your teacher is better than you thought.

I also suggest talking to your current teacher and telling her what's frustrating you. She may have no idea how much you've been struggling.

I'm sorry you're unhappy with your teacher, Car, but I think one thing about being an adult learner is you're expected to be proactive about your own learning and not totally dependent on your teacher to hand everything on a plate, particularly as you're not a total beginner. I don't mean you should always have to seek additional help/knowledge elsewhere (although learning shouldn't be limited to your lessons) - that would defeat the purpose of having a teacher, but simply ask questions and communicate your needs and expectation:

"Can we do aural today pls?"

"I don't think we're practising enough aural; I'm really not confident with this. Do you think I need a few extra lessons just to sort it out?"

"I understand we don't have enough time to cover aural, but can we at least do 5 minutes every time and maybe you can recommend me some good books/cds/websites I can use to practise at home?"

"I've just re-read the syllabus. There are a few new scales I'm not quite sure about and you haven't heard me play them."

"You know, I've been practising the scales and they sound awful. Can you help me?"

"Hey, we haven't done scales for a while. Let's make sure that I've been practising correctly all these weeks."

"We've spent many lessons just polishing these first few bars - I know, I know, I haven't got it, but I now have a good idea what to do with them and probably just need more practice. Now these last bits, I don't know what to do with them. Can we focus on these today pls?"

Etc

If all else fails, then find yourself a new teacher, methinks. There is no point sticking with someone you're not happy with.

It's very important to remember that knowing how to do something does not mean you know how to teach it.

Someone can have all the performance qualifications in the world and still be a rotten teacher, not knowing how to move a student forward or, in some cases, because of never having had certain difficulties themselves, unable to teach certain things because they assume they're 'natural'.

Obviously I believe that a teacher should also be a competent performer, but I don't think that being a good performer also makes a good teacher, so qualifications should just be used to shortlist and then you need to see each teacher individually.

She certainly sounds like she has some good points - perfecting a few bars is a very thorough approach and perhaps she's hoping that you'll gain enough autonomy to work on the rest yourself and show it to her later for critique - this would be a good teaching technique as a teacher isn't there to do everything for you.

That said, if you feel unsteady on aural etc. and you don't do sight reading with her, perhaps you should make it clear to her that you really want to judge your progress by the ABRSM grade method (which is only one of thousands of ways and remember that your playing is what counts - not what grade you're 'at') - so therefore you need aural and sight reading skills too.

Ultimately, the question is often not whether this person is a good or bad teacher, but more simply are they giving you what you want and need. If not, talk about it with them first and if things don't improve, it's time to move on.

Like others have said, it sounds like she might be taking the same approach as she would with a child. But again, as others have said, as an adult I guess there should be some onus on you to (at least to some extent) set the agenda.

My teacher gives me her opinion on where she thinks I should be heading, but always asks me what I think. We decide together and I'm always asking her opinion on whether I could/should do this or that. That really works for me.

My recorder teacher was excellent, but tended to focus on a few bars/ a section of a piece. Often, she'd pick up something e.g. technique and spend the whole lesson on that. (I was working at a much higher level (post grade 8) than I am on piano).

I learned loads from her, but I did feel frustrated at times because I just wanted to finish/polish a piece, which we never really did. I kind of assumed this was because we were working at a higher level, but maybe it was her style. She is really enthusiastic and a wonderful musician, but on reflection, I wonder if she was right for me. I'm very goal orientated and like to tackle things it small chunks, so I always feel I'm achieving and I didn't really feel that.

My piano teacher, is a lot more low key - the less obvious 'brilliant' teacher - but lessons have a clear structure. She always hears pieces in full, then gets me to go back and work on particular bits. At the end of the lesson, I do feel I've moved forwards and have a clear idea of what I need to do next.

At the end of the day, you need to find someone who is right for you. Perhaps a few trial lessons with different teachers might help you get a feel or maybe you need to be more assertive with your current teacher about what you want from your lessons. If this doesn't work, then maybe it's time to move on...

All we can say for sure is that you and your teacher are not communicating properly. My best guess is that she has assumed that you are happy to sort out aural training, organization of your practice etc., and that as you haven't spoken about your problems and worries you must be happy.

It is possible that she has a higher opinion of your ability than you do yourself. You might well be getting high quality instruction. One very good way to improve at piano playing is to work in very great detail on a short section of a piece. If she is an experienced teacher, who gets good results, that kind of work might be what you most need - even if you feel/believe differently.

Before judging her as a "bad teacher" or rushing off and finding another you need to at least talk about your concerns.

I don't agree that teachers should expect to treat adult learners differently from children. If you want to get exactly the same tuition that a child would get, there's no reason why you shouldn't (assuming that your teacher does teach children too). It sounds as if there is some misunderstanding about the sort of tuition you want. And there's only one solution for that!

True!
It may be that with so many other things to cover she's happy to let you do the scales on your own, on the assumption that if you have a problem with something, you'll tell her. If you feel that you're more confident with approval from her as to how the scales (for example) are progressing, then you should ask her if she wouldn't mind going over them more regularly and giving her opinion. My Grade 8 teacher never spent much time on scales (thank God... ). He trusted me to get on with them, preferring to spend lesson time on the intricacies of Bach, for instance. Listening to scales is something that any teacher can do, but not everybody knows how to phrase a fugue properly. It's true that good qualifications do not a good teacher make, but at least in the case of an adult learner, the pupil is capable of taking personal responsibility for ensuring that all aspects of the syllabus are covered, asking for extra help where required, knowing that he/she is benefiting from knowledge and expertise that other (perhaps better organised) teachers may not have.

Maybe it's not the right teacher for you?

I've been looking for a new violin teacher and I tried out 6 different teachers before I found the one I liked. Different teachers have different teaching styles. I'm quite picky about the type of teacher I want. I like my current teacher because he really listens to me, he doesn't look bored and is enthusiastic about teaching me, he leads the lesson but is also happy to teach me what I tell him to. Plus he seems experienced in preparing students for exams.

I had 2 lessons with this other teacher she never listened to me play the whole piece through, we spent one lesson going over 5 bars, I got so bored and frustrated, she wasn't teaching me properly. I felt I gained nothing from the lesson. She didn't listen to what I say, I wanted to her to teach my something else but she wouldn't give up on those 5 bars of music! To be fair, I don't know whether she was a bad teacher or just not right for me.

In your case, maybe try asking her to teach you what you want to learn and she if she does. You have been with her for 3.5 years, have you ever been happy with your teacher? I guess there's no harm looking around for another teacher if you want to change. Some teachers offer a free trial lesson, maybe go along to one of those and see how different teachers have different methods of teaching. Having all the right qualifications doesn't necessarily mean that person is a good teacher.

As everyone else has said, teachers have their different styles of teaching. I didn't find a singing teacher until my third attempt. Out of interest did you do lower grades with your teacher, and how did you get on in those exams?

No I did the other 5 grades with another teacher who was fantastic and totally inspired me but for personal reasons was no longer able to teach me after Grade 5 all my results with her were good 3 merits , 1 distinction and a good pass. I don't think on reflection that I ever have felt really happy with this one especially after the last one I had.

The one I have now is also very flaky if she has something better to do the lesson is cancelled.

I think perhaps I will move on but that is easier said than done as there is a shortage of good teachers where I live, I feel I need a good teacher to teach me the advanced grades.

I suppose it raises the question how to define a good teacher?

Do you have a long-term goal of what you want to achieve? Perhaps you could type it out with realistic deadlines and show it to your teacher, including some of the matters you mentioned above such as "know all my scales by". My own teacher is fantastic. I would like to be a piano teacher and typed out a document running to two sheets outlining all the things I would need to achieve to reach that goal in the future with some dates. My teacher has a copy. It just might be that your teacher does not really know what you want. If, in spite of communicating with your teacher, nothing changes and you feel you are not making progress, then I am afraid it sounds as if it is time to change teachers. It really does feel as if you are unhappy with this teacher and are almost wanting us to validate how you feel and agree with you but without knowing either party, that is difficult to do.

That is what I felt the OP as looking for as well - but I posted nothing to that effect as I could not find the right words. You have put it very eloquently.

Yes I think on reflection you are right, maybe I just wanted someone to agree with me. I don't have any musical friends to ask as I don't know of any adult learners where I live.


I have already made my mind up to change, the problem is where do I find another teacher, there are a lot of teachers around who have only got to Grade 6/7 themselves, I personally don't feel that's enough to teach someone the advanced grades.
What do you think? Whatever level you reach you are always going to want someone who's gone beyond that, after all if you were doing an A level you wouldn't just want to be taught by someone else who's just passed an A level would you?

Have you had a look on musicteachers.co? I think that is the correct title, but am not sure, or googled for something like piano teachers in whatever area you live in. Your local music shop might have a list. I suppose if the worst came to the worst and you had to travel for up to an hour, could you have lessons fortnightly?

I'm a little surprised at the general tone of the replies here. I know we don't want to criticise teachers unfairly on the basis of second hand reports, but if a teacher allows a student to enter an exam not having heard all the pieces through at least once, isn't there something wrong? Or is it just me??

And it's very easy to assume that your teacher is responsible for making sure you pass. This is quite false. The teacher guides you, how well you do is up to you. If you are concerned that your teacher hasn't heard all the pieces but don't choose to mention it until after the exam when you realise you haven't done well, it sounds simply like you're looking for someone to blame for your failure.

Perhaps an early grade student might not know to say something, but a later grade one should. If one chooses not to pipe up then one can't point the finger afterwards.

I do so agree LizzieT. Also I think that if we have agreed to an exam entry being made we should do everything possible to ensure that the candidate gets a decent pass. If only fifteen minutes of aural work was done it seems far too little. If scales and arpeggios are not heard the teacher has no way of knowing what standard they are. Never rely on a pupil's word, whatever age they are. If you want to make sure that they really can do something LISTEN TO IT and then judge for yourself. Set scales and arpeggios for the next lesson; explain how finger patterns work and then make a point of listening to them at the next lesson before setting any more. Include aural work at each lesson. Five minutes each week can make a huge difference. Don't just assume that a pupil can do it without testing it on a regular basis. Include sight reading work too and send sight reading material home. When a small section of a piece has been studied in detail do make a point of hearing the whole piece through. Then you can really start to work on it. If you want to turn your students into exam passers help them in every possible way. Organise performances for them from time to time and then they will go in feeling well prepared and able to give a good account of their work in an exam. Don't leave anything to luck as this teacher seems to have done. I am the first to say that exams are not everything but if an entry has been made then passing is important. Sometimes a pupil will fall down but it should never be because of any lack of preparation on the teacher's part.

Do you mean that in some circumstances a teacher might be justified in allowing a student to enter an exam without hearing all the pieces through at least once? If so, what circumstances would they be?

I'm not implying that the answer ought to be "no" - I'm not qualified to say. I just don't understand how hearing the other side of the story might help in this case.

Deleted.

If a teachers knows a pupil well, and 2 of the pieces are good - then it might be OK to enter them - given that there is still likely to be 10 to 12 weeks before the exam.

I know I nearly changed one of my pieces about 5 weeks before my exam (and would have got a better exam mark if I had done so) and I do feel that if I could do all the scales and 2 out of 3 of the pieces for my next exam then my teacher would have no problem letting me enter - but then they know my abilities and the amount of effort that I would put in. Also my next exam isn't G6 - which might change things

Having said that I do think that if a Teacher is supporting you in taking an exam they should hear all the pieces and all the scales and test the aural sections at some point before the exam is actually taken.

I find that I ask my teacher to do something sepcific he will generally do it. Last lesson I asked him to help me prepare 2 audition pieces.

We then spent 55 minutes of the lesson selecting and starting to learn the pieces.

A couple of months ago I asked to learn how to do spiccatto properly and he taught me, although it took 3 lessons!

basically you are paying so you should be allowed to get help on what you think you need to work on or want to work on.

That is true but it can be difficult for learners of any age to know what they need to improve. To a learner a piece may sound fine but not to the teacher. Scales may be correct but too slow; arpeggios might be uneven or incorrect; Many students would not have a copy of the syllabus and the rules and regs that accompany it. It really is the teachers job to work through everything and to hear everything. Would a driving instructor believe a pupil if he or she said thet the reverse park was OK or would they instruct and see for themselves? It's just the same.

Phew - at least I'm not completely alone.

With regard to the point that we are only hearing one side of the story - this is not a court and we are not here to pass judgement - we are here to discuss. Perhaps the title of this thread is an unfortunate one. However, if we take it that the opening post is describing how a particular teacher approached an exam and questioning whether other teachers would have done it differently, I would say my preparation as a teacher would be much more on the lines of what Petrat has described. I don't think this is passing judgement - simply stating a point of view.

It might be worth pointing out that the teacher "didn't listen to my pieces through before entering me" - not before the OP took the exam. It makes a difference. There can be quite some time between the entry date and the exam - time to learn a piece from scratch in many cases. The teacher is a reasonable judge of whether the pupil is able to do this, or able to complete a piece that's been recently started, but not worth listening to just yet.

This is the way I feel too!
Car, I'm sorry you've had such a bad exam experience and it is really sad.
It does sound like your teacher is very knowledgeable but not a good teacher. A good teacher would ask you what you goals are, whether you want to play for fun or work towards exams. If, as in your case, exam is one of your goal then she should do her best to help you achieve this goal. And from what you mentioned she has not prepared you for the exam and that is not right.
You asked "what makes a good teacher?" Well I guess we are all different and so the answers might differ but what I would be looking for is someone you feel confortable with, someone who inspires you, someone who is knowledgeable and prepared to share that knowledge. It doesn't matter if you're a child or an adult, a good teacher should not assume things are ok, they should ask or you should feel confortable enough to mention when things are not right. Every couple of months my teacher asks me if I'm happy with the way things are going etc..(and I've always been too coward to ask what she thought of me in case she says I'm a useless case and she never wants to see me again!!!! ).
You mention you do not have any musical friends and so it might be hard to find a good teacher. I had the same problem and when I started looking for a new one I mentioned it to a friend (completely non-musical) who just happened to have a friend who was a piano teacher. I would never have thought I would find a great teacher through her!!! so tell everybody you know that you are looking for a teacher...you never know who might know someone who knows a teacher!!!
Good teachers are harder to find than bad ones but there are some!! All the very best in your search for a new teacher!!!!

I have only just read through this thread and am hoping that the fence is strong enough to support those of you sitting on it. Are you in that category? I have been very surprised at some of the responses.

Car was inadequately prepared for this grade, in all areas, read the initial post again.

Shame on ANY teacher who enters their pupil for an exam without having thoroughly covered all disciplines required. Had this been a post by a parent concerning their child, many of you would have been up in arms and saying how unprofessional the teacher had been.

Come on now.

My penny's worth is , yes, look for another teacher. One who has the wit to take your goals seriously.