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Teigr
When people talk about putting together a balanced programme, what do they actually mean?

I've always tried to have a good mix of composers, styles, keys, time signatures and tempi.

What I'm wondering about now is how important the composers are. For some instruments it's pretty much dictated by the syllabus. Take organ for example - list A is baroque, list B classical and romantic, list C is modern. You're always going to be playing pieces by three different composers from three different periods.

But for recorder, list A is early/baroque, list B is modern and list C is a mixture of the two. Some composers appear on both list C and one of the other lists.
As long as there is contrast in other aspects (key, tempo, etc.), does it really matter if you pick the same composer for two lists? (I'm not actually planning to do so, just curious about the possibility.)

For TG guitar, there's one grade where you could, theoretically, play three pieces by one composer. That syllabus explicitly requires that you choose three pieces to form a balanced programme. (I know with AB it's not compulsory to do so, but is advisable.)
As long as those three pieces showed a good balance of keys, times, characters and so on, would you be penalised for sticking to one composer?
(I'm not planning to do this either, but seeing the possibility in the syllabus got me wondering.)


sbhoa
Apart from it maybe being more satisfying and possibly good musucal training there really is no need to choose a balanced programme for grade exams.
TG do say on their syllabus that you should choose a balanced programme but there is nowhere in their mark scheme to allow for this in either a positive or negative way.
Mad Tom
I don't know (or particularly care) what the examining boards mean by "balanced". It is such a vague term that they can't be surprised if every candidate has a different idea than the board about what it means.

To me it is an aesthetic thing (no - I don't mean one of my programs would put you to sleep!)

You take into account the period, style, composer, key, form, tempo, metre, length, mood ... of each piece that you might include. But that doesn't mean that you have a set of rules to follow to ensure "balance". It is more something that you feel. For example you might have just played Beethoven's Hammerklavier. smile.gif So that is the best part of an hour (or two hours if I was playing it sad.gif ) of quite serious intense stuff. But you could balance it with say a little lightweight piece lasting 2 minutes or less from Grieg's Op 17.

It is like how in photography or painting, a tiny red flower towards a corner will balance an entire dark frame.

IPB Image

p.s. I hope you don't think I am being flippant, this is meant to be helpful. rolleyes.gif


Noodelz
If you want to have a balanced programme that contains contrasting styles, moods, etc. then it's probably better to choose different composers for each section as well. The reason for this is because each composer has their own unique style and it can usually be heard in every piece. Let's say you choose to play an angry and intense Beethoven piece first and you want to play calmer one next to contrast it. I personally wouldn't choose another Beethoven no matter how calm it is simply because it still sounds like him.
Teigr
Just to clarify, I wouldn't actually do it myself in an exam. But, having seen that the syllabus makes it possible, I'm curious as to what would happen if someone did.
As long as the program was well balanced in other respects, could an examiner use the fact that two or even all three pieces were by a single composer to decide that that in itself made it unbalanced?


Lucid
My own teacher always got me to play 3 pieces from different periods (and so different composers) as he thought the examiner would prefer a selection of contrasting styles. But one of my students did his grade 3 sax last year and did 2 pieces by James Rae (list B and C). He passed with a merit and got high marks for both of those pieces. The examiner made no comment on the programme being unbalanced and he wasn't marked down for it, so it seems to be ok. I don't think I'd encourage the idea of all 3 pieces by one composer, but I guess for the grade exams, unless they specify a balanced programme, then it shouldn't be a problem. As I understand it each piece is marked individually - this is from page 31 of These Music Exams:

QUOTE
Each piece will be assessed independently using the principle of marking from the required pass mark negatively or positively.


That to me suggests that they don't compare the pieces to each other, so you should receive an individual mark for each piece even if you perform 3 of the same composer. I think It's the diplomas onwards where they are looking for (and request) a contrasting programme.

Lucid smile.gif
Teigr
QUOTE(Lucid @ Aug 16 2008, 09:36 PM) *

My own teacher always got me to play 3 pieces from different periods (and so different composers) as he thought the examiner would prefer a selection of contrasting styles. But one of my students did his grade 3 sax last year and did 2 pieces by James Rae (list B and C). He passed with a merit and got high marks for both of those pieces. The examiner made no comment on the programme being unbalanced and he wasn't marked down for it, so it seems to be ok.


Thanks for the info and congrats to your pupil. Was that with AB?

If so, that seems to answer the question of two by the same composer, as made possible by the AB recorder syllabus (among others). :-)


QUOTE

I don't think I'd encourage the idea of all 3 pieces by one composer, but I guess for the grade exams, unless they specify a balanced programme, then it shouldn't be a problem.


The syllabus that has one piece on each list by the same composer is a TG one and it /does/ specify a balanced programme. But they don't define what they mean by that.

QUOTE

As I understand it each piece is marked individually - this is from page 31 of These Music Exams:

QUOTE
Each piece will be assessed independently using the principle of marking from the required pass mark negatively or positively.


That to me suggests that they don't compare the pieces to each other, so you should receive an individual mark for each piece even if you perform 3 of the same composer. I think It's the diplomas onwards where they are looking for (and request) a contrasting programme.


That's AB though. TG asks for a balanced programme in the grade exams, so things might be a bit different there.
Robodoc
For the purposes of Grade exams with AB I would have thought that "balanced" means one from each list - no more, no less.

It is often quite possible to choose pieces at grade 8 to make an entirely 20th century programme (on the piano Shostakovitch's preludes & fugues have been list A, John Irelands Sonatina has been list B and a lot of list C are 20th Century) and often possible to choose an entirely 19th Century programme (Mendellsohn P&F, Beethoven Sonata mvt, Chopin piece). However, if you DID play either of these programmes, would they be considered balanced or unbalanced? If the board have picked them in such a way that you have one from each list they must constitute a balanced programme within the terms of the exam.
Lucid
Hi Teigr,

Yes sorry I was referring to AB only. I've not done or used Trinity or LCM exams myself so can't really comment from my own experiences.

I've just checked out TG's website and found this on their Exam Structure web page ( http://www.trinitycollege.co.uk/site/?id=1046)

QUOTE
There is flexibility in the way that candidates may select their pieces, allowing them to play to their own strengths, pursue their own interests and show their enjoyment of music-making and learning.


I've also just checked out their Mark Scheme and Assessment Criteria PDF for grade exams and can't find any mention of requiring a balanced programme (http://www.trinitycollege.co.uk/resource/?id=1026). If it definitely says they require a balanced programme then I would be inclined to play safe and choose contrasting pieces, but the impression I got from glancing through the mark scheme and assessment criteria is that each piece is marked individually again.

Lucid smile.gif
Teigr
It's in the syllabus itself:

"Pieces (3 x 22 marks)
Three pieces are to be played, one from each Group, to form a balanced programme. Instead of one item, candidates may offer their own composition (see page 9). If a duet (or duets) are chosen, the accompaniment must be played in the examination."

Then it gives the lists of pieces for each group.

Given that it's only grade 3, I don't imagine they'll be too picky about programming as long as there's some contrast in the character of the pieces.




Lucid
QUOTE(Teigr @ Aug 16 2008, 11:14 PM) *

It's in the syllabus itself:

"Pieces (3 x 22 marks)
Three pieces are to be played, one from each Group, to form a balanced programme. Instead of one item, candidates may offer their own composition (see page 9). If a duet (or duets) are chosen, the accompaniment must be played in the examination."

Then it gives the lists of pieces for each group.

Given that it's only grade 3, I don't imagine they'll be too picky about programming as long as there's some contrast in the character of the pieces.


That's interesting. I'd glanced through the clarinet and sax syllabus earlier, and just re-checked, and certainly on the online syllabus it doesn't use the word balanced. It says:

QUOTE
Three pieces are to be played, one from each Group. Instead of one item, candidates may offer their own composition (see page 9).


But it does use the phrase 'to form a balanced programme' for organ and guitar. Seems strange and possibly a result of a mistake. I imagine for grade 3 a contrast in character would be adequate.

Lucid smile.gif
Teigr
QUOTE(Lucid @ Aug 16 2008, 11:30 PM) *

That's interesting. I'd glanced through the clarinet and sax syllabus earlier, and just re-checked, and certainly on the online syllabus it doesn't use the word balanced. It says:

QUOTE
Three pieces are to be played, one from each Group. Instead of one item, candidates may offer their own composition (see page 9).



Are the clarinet and sax lists organised according to period, like the AB woodwind ones are?
If so, that would force a more balanced program anyway. List C could be similar to either of the others, but there'll be contrast between A and B for sure.


QUOTE

But it does use the phrase 'to form a balanced programme' for organ and guitar. Seems strange and possibly a result of a mistake. I imagine for grade 3 a contrast in character would be adequate.


Yep, it's guitar grade 3 where there's a Ryan piece on every list. Not just on the lists either, but in the main grade book itself.
AB organises the guitar lists so that, very broadly speaking, A is baroque, B is Spanish and C is modern.
With TG, everything's mixed up across the lists.
At TG g8 it's possible to offer a programme of Scarlatti/Bach/Dowland or one of Tarrega/Sor/Sor. This sort of thing can't be done with the AB lists.


plonkee
QUOTE
Three pieces are to be played, one from each Group, to form a balanced programme.


Couldn't that sort of mean more that 3 pieces are to be played one from each group which will therefore be a balanced programme. As in, the lists have been picked so that you will end up with a balanced programme?
Teigr
QUOTE(Teigr @ Aug 17 2008, 02:11 PM) *

AB organises the guitar lists so that, very broadly speaking, A is baroque, B is Spanish and C is modern.
With TG, everything's mixed up across the lists.
At TG g8 it's possible to offer a programme of Scarlatti/Bach/Dowland or one of Tarrega/Sor/Sor. This sort of thing can't be done with the AB lists.



QUOTE(plonkee @ Aug 17 2008, 08:57 PM) *

QUOTE
Three pieces are to be played, one from each Group, to form a balanced programme.


Couldn't that sort of mean more that 3 pieces are to be played one from each group which will therefore be a balanced programme. As in, the lists have been picked so that you will end up with a balanced programme?


No. Read the previous post.

The TG guitar syllabus, which is where the requirement for a balanced programme comes from, has lists which are /not/ organised in a way that would force a broad mix of composers/styles.
Hence the requirement to choose a balanced program!

The question is whether they would accept a programme which covered a variety of moods and keys as being sufficiently balanced, even if all the pieces were from the same musical period or if 2 or 3 pieces were by a single composer.


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