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SaxFan
QUOTE(andante_in_c @ Aug 18 2008, 07:59 PM) *

QUOTE(enharmonic @ Aug 18 2008, 07:45 PM) *

Sometimes we take things to the re-cycling centre, and there is always a mountain of televisions - I wonder how many of them work perfectly well, but have been thrown away just because they are an outdated model.

And however nice your brand-new telly is, it still shows the same old rubbish... tongue.gif

that sounds like a good argument for exchanging it for the oldest, out-of-date, non-working model biggrin.gif
YetAnotherPianist
QUOTE(The Old Lady @ Aug 18 2008, 02:49 PM) *
Anyone know if Aspartame is very very bad for you??

Amongst other things, it's metabolised into methanol, formaldehyde and aspartic acid. The first two are toxic; the latter is neurotoxic - it can cause damage to neurons in areas of the brain where it can cross the blood-brain barrier, and evidence suggests these effects are further potentiated by methanol.

The question, therefore, is whether these toxins pose a risk at the levels reached following consumption of food and drink containing aspartame; and I'm afraid there's no satisfactory answer - the studies investigating safety have come under criticism on methdological grounds, and further for their authors having a conflict of interest. The greatest concern is the exposure of children to aspartame, particularly what the long-term effects of the neurotoxicity may be upon a developing brain. Many people, however, are accustomed to having drinks taste sweet, and to avoid the calorific intake (or to assauge their dentists' concerns) will use aspartame-laced drinks to fill the gaps between mealtimes. The food industry thrives on this - customers see them as providing a product they want, whereas in fact they're providing a product that keeps the customer accustomed to sweet-tasting drinks. Hence, rather than learning to drink water, people will buy sugar-free squash or diet fizzy drinks; rather than learning to have tea/coffee without sugar, people buy sweetener.

Indeed, as we're in a thread on economy, I guess that's a piece of advice: tap water is free; artificially sweetened squash and diet fizzy drinks are not.
mrbouffant
Tap water is not free. Do you not pay a few hundred pounds to your local water company for the privilege of having it come through your tap?
Aquarelle
QUOTE(YetAnotherPianist @ Aug 19 2008, 11:52 AM) *



Indeed, as we're in a thread on economy, I guess that's a piece of advice: tap water is free; artificially sweetened squash and diet fizzy drinks are not.



I am sure you are right about aspartame. But ( I am, I know, guilty of nit picking here - sorry) tap water isn't free! Ours is metered and we pay accordingly.

We have a system for collecting rain water for the garden, the dish washer is used only once a day and we are careful about not underloading the washing machine. I use the shower rather than the bath and I am scrupulous about not running the tap while teeth cleaning. But I still reckon water is one of the things I waste most. I don't know how to economize any more.
YetAnotherPianist
QUOTE(confutatis @ Aug 19 2008, 01:59 PM) *
Tap water is not free. Do you not pay a few hundred pounds to your local water company for the privilege of having it come through your tap?

Okay, if you like, I'll rephrase my original post:

'On the assumption that one is already paying for the provision of a tap water service for other needs, such as sanitation, drinking tap water in lieu of squash or other soft drinks is an effective way of saving money: it costs 0.1p per litre, whereas the aforementioned alternatives cost substantially more. Verily, if one considers the expenditure of 1.4 new pence per week on drinking tap water to be insignificant, one could even consider doing so to be free; indeed, it would take a king amongst misers to quibble over such an expense.'
Fantasia in P major
As we are on the economy thread ...

A local library provides a truly economical service !
skylark
QUOTE(skylark @ Aug 18 2008, 11:58 AM) *

I think it's partly that and partly profiteering salesmanship.

A similar tactic is to thickly slice the bread so that you get through a loaf more quickly and buy another one sooner. I've found a local bakery instead who thin-slices biggrin.gif

The Old Lady
QUOTE(skylark @ Aug 19 2008, 07:52 PM) *

QUOTE(skylark @ Aug 18 2008, 11:58 AM) *

I think it's partly that and partly profiteering salesmanship.

A similar tactic is to thickly slice the bread so that you get through a loaf more quickly and buy another one sooner. I've found a local bakery instead who thin-slices biggrin.gif


But the thick bread is better toasted and dripping with butter. Oh no, take 100 lines

I do not like butter
I do not like butter
I do not like butter.............
IPB Image




SueHM
My sister's Mum-in-law roasts the meat the day before then reheats and carves it on the second day - apparently this allows you to slice it really thinly, thus making it go further. Can't say I'd fancy it myself...

Vegetables that are a bit 'tired' do very nicely in stews or soups. I shave blue mould off cheese and eat the rest - it is absolutely fine. Bread and butter pudding from stale bread. Stale cake goes in the bottom of a trifle. Gone off milk makes the best scones.
nicki_flute
I try and be as economical as possible, and certainly will when I live in a house at uni.

Just a few websites I have come across, if you have no idea with what to do with say a leftover bit of cheese or carrot: http://www.lovefoodhatewaste.com and http://www.cookingbynumbers.com.

At home we recycle as much as possible, mend clothes, put dishwasher on only when full, reuse leftovers, collect rain water in water butts. I am sure we do more, but I can't think of any. >.<



By the way Bev, I love the smilie! IPB Image
mcm
Always buy second-hand cars and then keep them going as long as possible....

Five years ago I bought a 1994 Fiat Cinquecento fifth-hand for only £450 as a runabout. It does over 50mpg and I find it perfectly comfortable to drive, and is in pretty good condition for its age. It doesn't do a great mileage as I cycle for shorter distances and prefer to use trains for longer ones, but is handy for toting my elderly mother around. The last two years it cost about £250 to get it through its MOT each time but even though that is more than the car is worth, it makes good economic sense to me. Insurance is cheap and it is not likely to be stolen by boy racers!

In the family we call it the biscuit tin but I was a little hurt to find a hand-written note left in it by a garage recently, calling it a "piece of sh*t" ohmy.gif ohmy.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
petrat
I suppoe that one good economy would be to go without a TV set but a freeview box is a great thing to have and there are new stations appearing all the time. It is a one-off payment, unlike Sky, and it is well worth doing a weekly scan to see what is new. I found around seven new channels last time.
barry-clari
QUOTE(petrat @ Aug 19 2008, 11:50 PM) *

I suppoe that one good economy would be to go without a TV set but a freeview box is a great thing to have and there are new stations appearing all the time. It is a one-off payment, unlike Sky, and it is well worth doing a weekly scan to see what is new. I found around seven new channels last time.


I'm finding the BBC interactive coverage of the Olympics on Freeview is very good, if BBC1 are showing a sport I'm not particularly interested in, there's usually something on the interactive channels. smile.gif

But I'm off topic really, back to the topic in hand...
Aquarelle
Coming back to thin slices of bread and meat I am a bit puzzled as to how this can really be an economic measure. I would simply eat more slices! And as far as the bread is concerned that would mean more butter.

skylark
ohmy.gif We've just had a open truck come round with old washing machines etc on the back and a man shouting out of the cab window "old iron, old iron" ohmy.gif ohmy.gif And a week or two ago I saw a *rag-and-bone man with a horse-drawn cart* ohmy.gif ohmy.gif

Cor blimey, they're making a come-back!!!
SueHM
QUOTE(Aquarelle @ Aug 20 2008, 08:06 AM) *

Coming back to thin slices of bread and meat I am a bit puzzled as to how this can really be an economic measure. I would simply eat more slices! And as far as the bread is concerned that would mean more butter.

I guess it is a way of making a small piece of meat spread round more people, or give the illusion of a fuller plate? Having another slice or three is the modern day greedy way, isn't it, whereas that generation often had no choice but to economise..
The Old Lady
USe a slow cooker with cheaper pieces of meat that need long slow cooking like beef skirt. It tastes better, smells wonderful and takes less power than the oven. If you can be a little bit organized, pop it on in the morning, and come home to a cooked meal from work.
Bev.
nicki_flute
I'm on a different forum and slow cookers are the way forward. Though we don't own one, so I can't comment.
SueHM
I have 2 slow cookers wub.gif and I have a big cook-up once a week - we eat the results for days afterwards!
nicki_flute
I am really quite tempted to get one (off Freecycle maybe?)! And I am also tempted to make my own bread at uni. My friends will just think I've gone nuts..
The Old Lady
Come on Nicki, you don't really care what people think do you huh.gif
all ears
Nicki, you're sure to find bread-making friends at university! That's where I learned how to bake bread on an everyday basis. Even without a bread-baker (which actually makes efficient use of electricity, if you can get one second-hand), you can raise dough in the fridge or in a bowl of water during the day and bake in the evening. However, my flatmates did a cost-comparison, and we made the unhappy discovery that on a calorie basis, porridge was the cheapest starch food. Wonder what it would be now?

Slow-cookers - not so well-known in Japan, but I've got a lot of mileage out of a thermal pot. I'd even like a second smaller one!

It's like a saucepan in a hay-basket - a giant thermos, in fact. You simmer food for 5 minutes or so, then put the whole pot inside the container and leave it. It doesn't need to be plugged in to anything, and there is really nothing that can break or go wrong with it.

I not only use it to cook stews, but to cook porridge overnight, to cook soup or white sauces slowly and thoroughly, and to cook delicate things like fish which break up easily when simmered. You can use it to ferment yogurt or bread, and you can also cook rice in it, though I haven't tried that.

Although I'm fond of my cup of coffee, I'm surprised how much less coffee I use during summer, when I either drink cold barley tea, or pick tea herbs from my tiny garden. Some mints which are horrible eating make wonderful tea, and sage tea is good made from either fresh or dried sage. Winter coughs and colds usually get herbs rather than an expensive visit to the doctor too.

Recently the price of butter almost doubled in Japan - I've gone back to another university staple, sprinkling bread with vinegar and olive oil, and adding a little pepper (or herbs, of course!). Cheaper than butter, cheaper than jam, and tastier as well.

What I really need to slash (apart from music lessons biggrin.gif ) is electricity, and all those useless detergents and cleaners!
nicki_flute
QUOTE(all ears @ Aug 21 2008, 01:44 AM) *

Nicki, you're sure to find bread-making friends at university! That's where I learned how to bake bread on an everyday basis. Even without a bread-baker (which actually makes efficient use of electricity, if you can get one second-hand), you can raise dough in the fridge or in a bowl of water during the day and bake in the evening. However, my flatmates did a cost-comparison, and we made the unhappy discovery that on a calorie basis, porridge was the cheapest starch food. Wonder what it would be now?

Slow-cookers - not so well-known in Japan, but I've got a lot of mileage out of a thermal pot. I'd even like a second smaller one!

It's like a saucepan in a hay-basket - a giant thermos, in fact. You simmer food for 5 minutes or so, then put the whole pot inside the container and leave it. It doesn't need to be plugged in to anything, and there is really nothing that can break or go wrong with it.

I not only use it to cook stews, but to cook porridge overnight, to cook soup or white sauces slowly and thoroughly, and to cook delicate things like fish which break up easily when simmered. You can use it to ferment yogurt or bread, and you can also cook rice in it, though I haven't tried that.

Although I'm fond of my cup of coffee, I'm surprised how much less coffee I use during summer, when I either drink cold barley tea, or pick tea herbs from my tiny garden. Some mints which are horrible eating make wonderful tea, and sage tea is good made from either fresh or dried sage. Winter coughs and colds usually get herbs rather than an expensive visit to the doctor too.

Recently the price of butter almost doubled in Japan - I've gone back to another university staple, sprinkling bread with vinegar and olive oil, and adding a little pepper (or herbs, of course!). Cheaper than butter, cheaper than jam, and tastier as well.

What I really need to slash (apart from music lessons biggrin.gif ) is electricity, and all those useless detergents and cleaners!

I've done a bit of bread making at home (handmade). I quite like doing rolls. I've made pitta bread before which was great, though it used 1.5kg of flour!

Vinegar is often cited as a good cleaner smile.gif
SaxFan
QUOTE(nicki_flute @ Aug 20 2008, 10:03 PM) *

I am really quite tempted to get one (off Freecycle maybe?)! And I am also tempted to make my own bread at uni. My friends will just think I've gone nuts..

making bread IS good fun... and once you make one basic dough you can add and vary it ... foccacia, brown bread, sweet buns .... there's no end (almost)
bread rolls are quite quick to make

if friend think you are nuts then confirm it with nutty bread too biggrin.gif
CJB
QUOTE(SaxFan @ Aug 21 2008, 08:24 AM) *

QUOTE(nicki_flute @ Aug 20 2008, 10:03 PM) *

I am really quite tempted to get one (off Freecycle maybe?)! And I am also tempted to make my own bread at uni. My friends will just think I've gone nuts..

making bread IS good fun... and once you make one basic dough you can add and vary it ... foccacia, brown bread, sweet buns .... there's no end (almost)
bread rolls are quite quick to make

if friend think you are nuts then confirm it with nutty bread too biggrin.gif



Last time I did the costings it wasn't any cheaper to make bread than to buy it......in fact in my house a lot more expensive as Mr B will eat a LOT more homemade than bourght.

Having said that for stress relief there is nothing like 15 mins of kneading dough to release all the frustration pent up inside. Usually the more energetic the less stressed you are and the better the texture of the bread.

I keep thinking about getting a bread maker but would loose the excuse for stress relief and would probably eat way too much bread.
nicki_flute
Maybe when I am having an essay crisis then?

Well during term time, I'll just be cooking for myself in the house, and I probably won't eat that much bread. smile.gif
upbeat
QUOTE(SaxFan @ Aug 21 2008, 08:24 AM) *

QUOTE(nicki_flute @ Aug 20 2008, 10:03 PM) *

I am really quite tempted to get one (off Freecycle maybe?)! And I am also tempted to make my own bread at uni. My friends will just think I've gone nuts..

making bread IS good fun... and once you make one basic dough you can add and vary it ... foccacia, brown bread, sweet buns .... there's no end (almost)
bread rolls are quite quick to make

if friend think you are nuts then confirm it with nutty bread too biggrin.gif

Would definately recommend a breadmaker. You can set it to finish when you get up.... there is nothing like the smell of fresh bread waking you up in the morning smile.gif It's great for pizza dough too (and fruit/nut bread)
anacrusis
I love my breadmaker too - and can't understand why it would be near the top of the list of duff gadgets in a kitchen: I use it four or five times a week. I can make rolls if I have time, or set it to do a loaf if I haven't, and I know what's gone into the bread. It's one area where "economy" (in the sense of cheap for the sake of cheapness) doesn't come into it for me - I know it's a better quality than the pap sold in the shops, it tastes good, and I can vary the recipes. I understand I'm lucky though - people do complain their machines don't work, and I've never had any significant flops, other than the time I forgot to put the mixing paddle in blush.gif .
Soph15
QUOTE(skylark @ Aug 20 2008, 01:05 PM) *

ohmy.gif We've just had a open truck come round with old washing machines etc on the back and a man shouting out of the cab window "old iron, old iron" ohmy.gif ohmy.gif And a week or two ago I saw a *rag-and-bone man with a horse-drawn cart* ohmy.gif ohmy.gif

Cor blimey, they're making a come-back!!!


We get them daily here ... but they tend to come really early in the morning!!!! ohmy.gif
SaxFan
QUOTE(anacrusis @ Aug 22 2008, 12:14 AM) *

I love my breadmaker too - and can't understand why it would be near the top of the list of duff gadgets in a kitchen: I use it four or five times a week. I can make rolls if I have time, or set it to do a loaf if I haven't, and I know what's gone into the bread. It's one area where "economy" (in the sense of cheap for the sake of cheapness) doesn't come into it for me - I know it's a better quality than the pap sold in the shops, it tastes good, and I can vary the recipes. I understand I'm lucky though - people do complain their machines don't work, and I've never had any significant flops, other than the time I forgot to put the mixing paddle in blush.gif .

I haven't really felt the need for a machine to do that job.
I understand it has the timer advantage.. but the disadvantage seems to be the weighing ingredients very accurately - so I have been told - don't know how important that is....

it doesn't take very long to knead a good loaf, and it is very good and therapeutic fun.
petrat
We tend to use our breadmaker more in the colder weather. A slice of fresh bread and a bowl of home-made soup makes a great meal on a winter day.

Back to thoughts about economising; My grandfather was brought up on a farm and they used to keep some wool from their own sheep after shearing time, take it to be cleaned and spun into cloth and then the tailor would come to stay for a few days and would make a new suit for any family members who needed one . This would become the sunday suit and the old suit would then be used for everyday use. When the old suits became too old for wearing around the farm they would be cut into strips and made into rag rugs with sacks as the base. Shirts were made by the house wife, often sewn by hand and everyone knitted woollen cardigans and jumpers. The men were able to knit their own woollen socks too.
Malone
Apparently, opening your window while driving reduces fuel economy by up to 5%... According to his Lordship, Jeremy Clarkson smile.gif smile.gif


JC for PM!!
anacrusis
QUOTE(SaxFan @ Aug 22 2008, 04:56 PM) *


I haven't really felt the need for a machine to do that job.
I understand it has the timer advantage.. but the disadvantage seems to be the weighing ingredients very accurately - so I have been told - don't know how important that is....

it doesn't take very long to knead a good loaf, and it is very good and therapeutic fun.

Kneading may not take so long, but organising time to be around for proving dough does. I will admit though, there have been posts I've read on the fora which have made me wish I did have a good wodge of dough to thump for therapeutic purposes mad.gif .
SaxFan
QUOTE(anacrusis @ Aug 22 2008, 06:25 PM) *

Kneading may not take so long, but organising time to be around for proving dough does.


maybe, it does of course depend on what else you are doing and how it all fits together...
a bit like in the old days of a 'washing ' day (usually Monday) and a baking day....

The Old Lady
QUOTE(SaxFan @ Aug 22 2008, 07:03 PM) *

QUOTE(anacrusis @ Aug 22 2008, 06:25 PM) *

Kneading may not take so long, but organising time to be around for proving dough does.


maybe, it does of course depend on what else you are doing and how it all fits together...
a bit like in the old days of a 'washing ' day (usually Monday) and a baking day....


Yes, but some people are out all day making people better rolleyes.gif
Misti
Very true! Would be nice to get paid for being a housemother or something...

While I never get time for bread making, I do tend to knock up scones of some description when we run out of bread. This takes 20 mins, and another 10-15 in the oven, and sorts us for breakfast / lunch. I find that amount of time baking is pretty managable, even at 11pm at night, and makes me very popular with my housemates. smile.gif

anacrusis
QUOTE(The Old Lady @ Aug 22 2008, 10:08 PM) *

QUOTE(SaxFan @ Aug 22 2008, 07:03 PM) *

QUOTE(anacrusis @ Aug 22 2008, 06:25 PM) *

Kneading may not take so long, but organising time to be around for proving dough does.


maybe, it does of course depend on what else you are doing and how it all fits together...
a bit like in the old days of a 'washing ' day (usually Monday) and a baking day....


Yes, but some people are out all day making people better rolleyes.gif

woot.gif
*finishes pounding dough and goes to get out a mangle*
(saves electricity wink.gif)
SaxFan
QUOTE(The Old Lady @ Aug 22 2008, 10:08 PM) *


Yes, but some people are out all day making people better rolleyes.gif


I didn't mean to imply that we can all do that.... bake I mean
I meant that it is good to do, and not always time consuming IF you can work around it and plan around it.
It may take 15-20 mins to make and knead a batch of dough, make the rolls then perhaps an hour for them to prove.... then 10 mins or so to bake...

but of course those 'pieces' of time may not be easy to come by or to organise in the right 'spaces'

QUOTE(anacrusis @ Aug 22 2008, 06:25 PM) *


Kneading may not take so long, but organising time to be around for proving dough does.


yes absolutely agree...
petrat
When I put the chicks to bed this evening I noticed the scraps that King Rat's son and wife had given them. Some tomatoes, onions, bread rolls and a couple of oranges and it all looked fine to me. I looked at it and thought tomato soup with onions and bread pudding with orange sauce to follow. I could make a lot of things with their throw-out food.
I may spend my time with a millionaire but we certainly don't live tht lifestyle. King Rat is wearing a pair of charity shop pyjamas at the moment, (New, but just £1.00) and was wearing an ebay pinstripe suit today for his consultations. Most of the furnature in my studio is recycled or from the local auction and in the Rattery too, I have been using my bike a lot more for local trips to save on fuel for the car and have moved my piano into a smaller room while the big freeze is with us to save on heating. It is very cosy and the kids love having their lessons there. We have started buying the supermarket own value brands much more too and most of them are really good.
Holz Gedeckt
QUOTE(petrat @ Feb 5 2009, 12:38 AM) *

When I put the chicks to bed this evening I noticed the scraps that King Rat's son and wife had given them. Some tomatoes, onions, bread rolls and a couple of oranges and it all looked fine to me. I looked at it and thought tonato soup with onions and bread pudding with orange sauce to follow. I could make a lot of things with their throw-out food.
I may spend my time with a millionaire but we certainly don't live tht lifestyle. King Rat is wearing a pair of charity shop pyjamas at the moment, (New, but just £1.00) and was wearing an ebay pinstripe suit today for his consultations. Most of the furnature in my studio is recycled or from the local auction and in the Rattery too, I have been using my bike a lot more for local trips to save on fuel for the car and have moved my piano into a smaller room while the big freeze is with us to save on heating. It is very cosy and the kids love having their lessons there. We have started buying the supermarket own value brands much more too and most of them are really good.

You could always give the chickens some Caviar, Ratty...! tongue.gif smile.gif
petrat
Why? They are perfectly happy eating grubs and worms with a bit of corn,
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