I'm sure there's been plenty of discussion on this topic before, but I just want to complain about the absolutely shocking cost of ABRSM exams. I'm due to sit grade 5 in Nov and it's going to cost me £44.50. For an exam lasting no longer than 15 mins! How can they justify charging so much? Where exactly does the money go? It clearly doesn't go on providing a decent piano in the exam in my experience! I'm not complaining because I can't afford it, I just feel that I've already spent however mucn on the scales and sightreading books and pieces, plus weekly lessons, so to have to pay out even more is rather annoying to say the least! I really feel for parents who have more than one child - it must cost them a fortune, especially if their children are sitting every grade. I thought music was supposed to be accessible, but clearly not. Obviously exams aren't compulsory, but if you want to sit them, start saving!!

Well, here in my country (Asia), I sat for a grade 5 practical piano exam this year at a little less than twice the amount you have paid for... I don't know whether I should count myself lucky that it isn't any more expensive, because the examiners fly here. Again, Grade 8 would be more than 1.5 times the price of Grade 5...

Actually, I heard the fees are rising from year to year.... Sigh, I wish I passed my Grade 8 back when I was a child.... With the inflation going on now, I have nothing to say...

But I do feel the exams are expensive... Could there be discounts for successful candidates who have a consistent history of good scores in previous exams?
Am I asking for too much if a candidate with 2 straight distinctions/merits gets a small discount in the next exam he/she applies for?

Um, in a word, yes. The AB still have the same costs - centre hire, examiner fees, administrative support, administrative costs (cont. p94) - whether a candidate consistently scores 50 or 150.

There was a fairly long thread about this a few months back. While I agree that the costs seem high, bear in mind that the ABRSM probably relies on exam fees for most of its income (no doubt the annual report would tell us). Compare the fees with a similar amount of your dentist's (ex NHS), vet's or solicitor's time....

Perhaps the smart response for the punter is to skip a number of exams .. take grades 3, 5 7 and 8 for example.

.. and of course these forums (server costs, moderation etc) are paid for from the ABRSM income.

nick

That would create an enormous amount of extra administration.

I did an exam in summer 2007. the cost was £32. I was in the room for about 12 minutes.

Well at least I had no travel costs. I was at boarding school at the time and I just walked up to the performing arts centre to take the exam.

So in a year and a bit the cost has gone up by £12. What is the need for the extra charge, it is higher than inflation.

Oh well I havn't taken exams for a while becuase of the spiralling costs.

Is the music worldtrying to price everyone out of affording anything to do with music? Expensive music, exam costs, lesson fees etc...

It is life, VH. Prices never go down, they always go up. You can always choose not to buy expensive music and play from free public domain editions. You can also choose not to take exams and just progress through playing repertoire and taking the occasional lesson to iron out any snags.

I find myself frustrated that I cannot afford a new Lamborghini. What do I do? I drive a Ford Fiesta instead. Cut your cloth accordingly...

At least pianists don't have to pay for an accompanist too.

I have a student who is primarily an organist and he's taking his ARCO after Christmas. He tells me it's going to cost him over (pounds) 400 and he will have to pay again (as I understand it) if he needs to re-take an section.

Costs are costs - as others have said, if you're unhappy about it, then you do something else. Yes, it is hard on cash-strapped parent/adult pupils and I am sure we all have students who are genuinely struggling financially. I posted a message about that on these forums recently. However, the ABRSM has its costs to meet and they're not going down either.

I also have students who have parents who moan like crazy about the cost of an exam but cheerfully take overseas holidays several times a year and one father has just paid a huge sum of money to get his son a season ticket for our local football team but begrudges money on an exam.

Life is, in general, pretty unfair.....

As I understand it, for any half-decent organist, this equates to about 6 weddings (6 hours work) at the average fee rate - not really that much a burden... Then again, if they are not competent enough to do 6 weddings, perhaps ARCO is a stretch too far?...

Now I understand. The above hidden costs never crossed my mind. Indeed venue costs is actually one portion that I identify with. I know I paid about 30 pounds to rent the studio for an hour's practice. So it must cost lots of money to get the venue to stop lessons and sometimes even close the retail section to maintain the silence required during exams. Maintenance of the website is truly costly, I know. And they have even done some podcasts with BBC!

But I do know something that ABRSM give discounts on! The PDP seminar is 10% off for CT ABRSM holders!

Well at my previous school, where I took 2 exams, one of the guys from the music department accompanied everyone apart from pianists. This was all at no extra costs.

Also a lot of costs were removed at my last school. No stweard was used, the pianist simply wiated with the candidate outside the room just before they went in.

Don't know about venue costs, pretty sure Ab did not have to pay for a practice room. There were 9 and candidates used them when they wanted to. So only the actual room would have been paaid for, if the school even charged them for using it.

SP when I think about it costs were lower than with a normal exam centre. so if they wanted £45 i would still think hang on you are wanting far too much for such a little exam.

It is not like I £40+ an exam when taking my AS exams.

Well school exams have entry fees too, on average each GCSE is about £30, and AS/A Levels are around £30 per module. These are usually paid for by the school, but not always (particularly for resits) and if you were a private candidate you'd have to pay them.

For AS resits, it's much less than £30... I paid about £12 for mine, and I think that was for more than one... Though it might've been just one, can't remember.

Personally I think the exams are too expensive. I appreciate that there are things ABRSM need to pay for the the price we pay is excessive. Also, why would it go up by such an amount as the grades got higher if it was just because of ABRSM expenses?

The attitude of "if you can't afford them, don't do it" is rather a limiting one - for UCAS points, and music colleges, many people need exams, additionally, why would teachers bother putting people in for them if not beneficial? It's rather unfair that they are out of reach of some because of their price.

It doesn't seem a coincidence that most people on here (including myself) are moderately well off, middle class people - it's because exams are expensive, and as much as people try to deny it (by mentioning expensive cars and holidays taken - I've never met a poor person in existence who has these things! I don't think such people exist!) poverty is a reality. Some people just cannot afford to play music, and these exams are only an added expense. I think it's really a shame.

Untrue. Music is the most democratic and pan-global experience there is (apart from Births, Deaths and Marriages). We all have a singing voice, for example...

The cost scale for ABRSM is probably structured so that (a) lower grade exams are loss-leaders to encourage people in (b) middle grade exams are slighly more expensive than necessary to cover the loss from (a) and © higher grade exams/diplomas are much more expensive to put people off entering for them 'for a laugh'.

Alright, fine, so if someone comes onto the forums and says "I want to learn to play violin, I have no musical experience, and I can't afford lessons, or tutor books, or in fact an instrument", everyone's going to be jumping for joy in telling them it can be done, no problem?

I love singing lessons, I wouldn't give them up for anything, but that doesn't change the fact that they are the most expensive thing I do. I know for a fact that there are people who simply cannot afford them, and I count myself very lucky that I can.

In these narrow cases yes, you may be right, but music, globally, is so much more than scraping away on a tatty violin. We are naturally 'musical' creatures, so just because one path is closed to us, it doesn't prevent someone following another (and equally valuable) musical path.

Well... singing is free. But all other instruments cost money, and any singer will tell you that you need to have lessons if you want to make a career of singing, or you can severely damage your voice - making even singing impossible. Singing lessons are certainly not free.

No one is saying that you can't have music in your life in any way if you are poor, but I think it's short-sighted to imply that poverty is no obstacle. If you want to learn an instrument, you need an instrument, and you need lessons, and books to help. Exams are a benefit for marking progress, and all these things are off limit to people who cannot afford them. I can't think of any solution to this, but I still think it's a shame, and that it's not really fair - and denying that poverty exists, or that poverty is a barrier is willful blindness.

No, you are still taking a very Westernised view of things. Put your comments in perspective by thinking more globally. Tribal singers of Papua New Guinea, for example, don't care about lessons, books or exams. I doubt they have a lot of money knocking about either.

"In the olden days", people who couldn't afford orchestral instruments made music on whatever they had to hand - paper and comb, washboard, spoons, or if they could afford an instrument, something like a harmonica. Although even poor families often had a piano, and all the family would share in the singing, for which you didn't need music, it was songs that everybody just knew.

But I think you're talking about a music education, lucky, aren't you, which I agree is to a large extent beyond the means of many families. Even with singing, where you don't have to buy an instrument, you still need lessons and repertoire books to be "musically educated", even if you don't go in for exams, festivals and the like. Somebody on a low income who wants to learn an instrument other than singing would find it even more difficult, if not impossible. Particularly if lessons are invoiced a term in advance, even half-a-term, that's a lot of money upfront for people on a low income.

There must be many children who given the opportunity could become skilled musicians, but who don't have the opportunity because they are in low-income families. Music is just one of life's opportunities which those children are denied. I remember going to a very impoverished town for the first time - the traditional industry had died out and there was high unemployment and a general sense of hopelessness and decay. I remember thinking that the children of those families didn't stand much chance of getting out of it The notion that they could afford to take up a musical education is not realistic.

Sorry, I digress. As far as exams are concerned, I imagine the AB set the rate as low as they can in order to attract as many people to do them as possible, within the constraints of all the overheads they have to meet.

I have come to realise complaining does not work so I groan and cough up the dough for stuff i need, including exams, where appropriate.

Like a month ago I saw a shirt I liked but disliked the £25 price. I groaned, opened my wallet and paid for it. LIfe is mean to you soemtimes!

Yep pretty much... Like I said, no one's saying that poor people can't have some form of music in their life, but yes, to be musically educated, money is a necessity.

Having got a Diploma in 1963, but never done music professionally, I thought I might try to do another Dip when I retire, maybe just Dip A. on organ or piano. However it would just be for personal satisfaction , and when I see the fees, I'm completely put off, because personal satisfaction is not worth that much !

[quote name='lucky045' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:27 AM' post='735322']
[quote name='plonkee' post='735312' date='Aug 21 2008, 09:27 AM']
[quote]It is not like I £40+ an exam when taking my AS exams.[/quote]

It doesn't seem a coincidence that most people on here (including myself) are moderately well off, middle class people - it's because exams are expensive, and as much as people try to deny it (by mentioning expensive cars and holidays taken - I've never met a poor person in existence who has these things! I don't think such people exist!) poverty is a reality. Some people just cannot afford to play music, and these exams are only an added expense. I think it's really a shame.
[/quote]

I've moaned about the cost of exams, but when I really think about it, I know it's actually reasonable. But I think you are right. It is sad that a lot of people are excluded from music because the cost of lessons/exams/instruments is prohibitive, so it is a middle class 'sport'. And it isn't just about money. For those who do manage to break through, the exclusivity can feel intimidating. I come from a very working class background. My parents scraped together the money for lessons and exams, but even as a young child I felt I didn't quite fit in with the middle class classical music scene...I think it's one of the reasons I bottled out of my music degree.