Have posted here before about the 'Les Dawson' effect i.e. I can learn a piece really thoroughly but when I come to play it through, at certain points, my hands just seem to be in the wrong place and out comes a ###### note...

I can stumble my way through most of the music I'm playing at the moment (between grade 2 and 4) at first sightread. But even after a couple of weeks of breaking it down, working on the tricky bits I don't always feel I've made too much progress, or at least there are still a couple of 'bits' that are still a bit dodgy, even though I've practised them in isolation, in lots of different ways etc.

When I start practising a piece, I usually play it through to see where I am with it, to identify the 'problem' bits. My first step is to identify what's causing each problem (in my case it's often 'cause I'm not observing the fingering). One technique I use a lot is working my way back i.e. starting on the note after a difficult passage, then working my way back adding a note each time. It does work, but I find I have to repeat the process every time a practise the piece for quite a while before it really sinks in.

My teacher is really keen on practising hands separately, but probably because my general musical experience and understanding is post grade 8, it does feel really tedious to do it all hands separately first (especially on a long piece like I'm working on at the moment) so I tend to do the easier bits together straight off and then hands separately on the more challenging bits.

Perhaps I am answering my own question here, but I rather suspect that some of the stubborn problems may be due to what I'm doing the first few times I look at a piece i.e. speeding ahead, not observing fingering, playing HT when I should be playing it through hands separately. But the thought of plodding through a whole piece hands separately, not moving onto hands together until it's just perfect really bores me. It reminds me of being a child, of only being 'allowed' to do the RH one week, the LH the next...!

Any thoughts? And any general practice tips gratefully received!

Yes, you have pretty much answered your own questions. First you have to be quite clear, and in complete detail, what exactly you intend to do. Then you have to practice it as slowly as necessary, repeating as many times as it takes, over however long a period it takes, to develop the co-ordination and control that you need.

If it is necessary to practice hands separately then it is necessary!

As for being tedious, that is not a problem I have with piano playing (unlike moost other pursuits - e.g. chess). I actually enjoy the endless hours of technical exercises and careful repetition that some people find irksome or worse. If I have to repeat something a thousand times to get it right I will do it, and enjoy doing it.

Perhaps you also need to learn to enjoy that aspect of learning?

I agree there is a great sense of achievement to be gained from cracking that tricky passage/bar etc.

Is not that I don't enjoy it, I'm just keen to get it licked so I can connect emotionally and make music! So I am always trying to run before I can walk. I'm sure I'm not alone in this?

I wonder if the answer is to structure my practice session, so the hard graft is interspersed/rewarded with things I can already play well/polishing work.

About 10 years ago I discovered the music of Enrique Granados and set myself the challenge of learning to play "The Maiden and the Nightingale" from Goyescas. I have no idea what sort of level it is, but to me it was the hardest thing I had ever decided to learn. My method was to start at the beginning and play both hands while sight reading it. I went to the end and got a fairly good idea of where the problems were going to be. I think I probably did this two or three times, and that was the end of getting the overview. Next came the serious learning phase in which I always stopped if I had a problem. Quite soon after starting I met a passage that came out all wrong. At that point, I separated the hands and practised the passage (whether it be one bar, a few notes, several bars, etc) until it started to come right. I worked on the fingering, choosing what was best for me, marked up the music with my own suggestions, and played it again and again with each hand separately until I was reasonably satisfied with it. Then I repeated the same passage with both hands. When that sounded acceptable even if not perfect, I started again at the beginning of the piece. If I got through the problem passage with little or no difficulty, I continued playing through to the next problem passage, then repeated the learning method. This sequence would last probably no longer than an hour, after which I would either play something else or do something else.

When next I came to practice this piece, I would start again playing from the beginning with both hands. Sometimes I found that the rest period in between actually allowed me to play the most recent difficult passages a little better.

Over a period of months I gradually moved right through the piece to the end, so it seems I was following your wondering (quoted above) but using the learned parts of the same piece of music as the interspersed well-played pieces. This has the advantage that even if I had not quite mastered a difficult passage, it would get practised again when next I passed through it to the new passage that I was working on. What I did not do was rush over the problem parts to get to the easier parts and so finish the piece. Apart from the overview sessions, I never played the ending until I could play all the rest, at least to my own satisfaction as I did not have a teacher.

Patience comes before Practice in the Dictionary! Good Luck, anyhow.

What about learning some easier pieces along side those you're having lessons on? Maybe something you can quite easily manage technically so you can basically run from the word go.

I don't normally find practising tedious at all but for days I can't really be bothered (like when I'm stucked in the office past midnight ) I usually work on some easier short pieces (which I don't need my teacher's input). I find learning new pieces more interesting than simply playing through pieces I've already mastered (plus they can be handy for when someone comes over, sees the piano and asks me to play something). Or sometimes I simply sightread through lots and lots of pieces just for fun.

Last night, after the hard graft, I sightread through a load of easy pieces, which was really nice...although fell in love with a couple of them and now want to learn them properly!