Hi, I was just wondering about the requisites that warrant the necessity of a TV Licence when you don't own a TV...

Taken from the TV Licensing wesite:

I notice firstly that this says 'watch or record television programmes', which suggests that it is fine to access radio without a TV Licence, despite the fact that it was previously called the 'Radio License'. Secondly, it says 'programmes as they're being shown on TV' - i.e. you only need a TV Licence for 'live streaming'. Since BBC iPlayer and YouTube are not live, it is fine to watch them, right? This would be consistent with what it says on the BBC iPlayer website:

However, somewhat ominously, they add:

Which means that they are trying to clamp down on this loophole, and one day, will make all programmes on it live streaming, which you won't realise until you click 'play', by which time it will be too late and they will accuse you of having watched a nanosecond of live stream TV without a TV Licence. I'm also paranoid that they will add little widgets of live stream TV that automatically load as soon as you happen to explore certain pages, and then they'll go "Aha, we've got you! You've been watching live stream TV without a TV Licence, lad, and that will incur an £1000 fine and a criminal record!" The BBC news channel online is a dodgy one (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7459669.stm), because as soon as you load the page, it starts live streaming, and only then does it add the oh-so helpful little disclaimer:

So basically, without a TV Licence, it is your mission to avoid all these landmine hyperlinks that will lead you to an auto-load live stream webpage!




Another question I was curious about, was whether there are restrictions imposed on watching or listening to live stream TV or radio from foreign countries, from say France or Italy? Or am I subject to foreign laws when watching their transmissions? I guess the UK TV Licence doesn't cover it anyway? I noticed on the BBC iPlayer website that strictly speaking:

So I guess that it's in my interest to find out from the national websites whether it is OK. Hmm... I got this from the RAI website, so I think radio is OK:

But it just gives the fundamental definition for those that have to pay as being those with equipment that can receive television transmissions, regardless of quantity and quantity, and does not talk of any exemptions about transmissions to abroad, except that if you live abroad and watch live TV, yet you still have a house in Italy with a television set, you still have to pay the fee. Yet it does say:

I.e. If you move to be a resident abroad, and get rid of all your television sets in Italy, you can write a letter to stop having to pay the fees. So I guess, that implies that watching it abroad is OK?




I'm probably just making a fuss over nothing, and I probably won't have that much time to watch TV anyway, it's just that I don't fancy the idea of being escorted out of the lecture hall by the carabinieri for not paying my RAI fees or whatnot. And no, I'm not just trying to seek out all the legal loopholes to avoid having to pay for a TV License (OK, I am, but it's not as if I want to watch that much anyway, and it's too expensive! ), I just want to make sure that I'm on the right side of the law if I do watch iPlayer or something! So if anybody can offer any help or answers about this, they would be much appreciated! Maybe I've just got to seek out someone taking law...

~Wobby~

Not sure if this helps but if you do not have any intention of watching live streaming then it seems you would be OK not to have a licence. The NTVLRO (or whoever they are now) are not out to catch people out by sneaking in a live clip and then sending the dectector van round.

However as technology moves on this antiquated law on having to have a 'broadcast receiving licence' in order to receive broadcasts will get harder to enforce. The law was (in my day) that just having the equipment capable of receiving a broadcast whether you used it for that purpose or not meant you needed to have a licence. So having a TV and only using it to watch videos was no defence - so manufacturers used to make VHS players that only replayed videos and had no 'broadcast receiving' capability.

However these days it seems anyone with an internet connection now has 'broadcast receiving equipment' due to the latest technology, and I am sure the law will have to be clarified, or the TV licence in its current form disappear.

Many years ago I worked in the local TVLRO, so I know what the law was then, I'm not so sure now. We had some interesting cases...one guy who was prosecuted was called Prince Charles (first name Prince, surname Charles) of course we thought he was taking the Michael when he said his name.

And while I worked in the section I actually gave up my TV - and my colleagues sent me a full 'summons' which said I had been 'found in possession of a Broadcast Receiving Licence' and no 'Broadcast Receiving Equipment' - wish I'd kept that now.

Nice one !

My mum got a letter once asking why she didn't have a tv license - the reply was she didn't have a tv. duh.

However as technology moves on this antiquated law on having to have a 'broadcast receiving licence' in order to receive broadcasts will get harder to enforce.

Yes.

Some of my friends here thought I was mad when I paid for a licence. Apparently, lots of people don't bother. But then here it's just another tax. I don't think any one station gets the money. I can't imagine anyone writing a letter either. As long as you don't have a TV, you're okay and it's up to them to prove otherwise.

Incidentally, we only watch the BBC, ITV channels from the UK anyway!

Steve

I just wish the TV licensing people would spend less time harassing students. Even after you've phoned/written/emailed/combinationoftheabove numerous times, they're still sending out red, threatening letters.

The inspection guy they sent round our house last year seemed quite bewildered when we dragged him in through the door in delight, with the comment "Fantastic! Will we stop being pestered now?!!" He then proceeded to give the various iMacs in the house very suspicious looks. *sigh*

Sadly we were still recieving their letters 3 months later... they do seem to have stopped now.

To be honest though, if I ever recieve another letter, it'll be ignored. If I ever get another visit, I shall tell them to go away, and that I'll see them in court. Not an issue seeing as I really do not have a TV. I just don't understand why they waste so much money lettering people, and generally being so aggressive.

I wonder what the definition of 'live' is. Any stream has to be encoded, streamed across the internet and then decoded at the other end. This all takes time - longer than it takes to get it onto a TV via satellite or a terrestrial transmitter. If the latency is great enough, does this break their definition of 'live' and provide a loophole? Anyone fancy testing that theory in court?...

I put my hands up! We were one of those who did not purchase a TV licence when we moved house.

About 18 months after our house move there was the knock on the door from the TV Licence chaps, the very next day I went and bought a TV Licence. Still I ended up being summoned to Court, sitting on a narrow bench waiting for my name to be called and hoping that no one recognised me as they hurried up and down the legal corridors!

There were about 25 of us all from the same area - students, young mums, all shapes and sizes. Each name was called and the person went into the magistrates court and was out in less than five minutes. After this had happened to the fith person, the rest of us started smiling - clearly this was going to be easy. We rehearsed our various excuses in the meanwhile.

Name called (Oh the shame of it now they all know who I am!) I went in. Sat at the Magistrate's Clerk's desk and he just said, oh since you have now started to pay by direct debit the Summons has been cancelled. We wont fine you this time. Off you go! I had spend the previous six months in absolute agony!

Since then I always pay the TV Licence including the children's Tv Licence when they are at University.

I think you are right with your suspicions Wobby - The powers that be want the licence to cover watching BBC programs over the internet, but at the moment it's very hard for them to prove your PC or MAC has the ability to watch live streaming.

My brother in law doesn't have a TV and got a visit from the TV licincing people who asked him if he watched the TV on his MAC and said that if he did he needed a licence - he said he didn't watch TV on it and after a bit of threatining behaviour (and hunting for a TV in the wardrobes etc) they left.

Over the next couple of years it's got to go one way or the other - either no licence fee at all (which would save them a lot of admin and hence money but would mean income tax would have to cover it) or a mandatory licence if you have a TV, PC, Mac or anything that can display a TV picture even if you don't watch it. As the governent likes hidden taxes my guess is that the licence is here to stay.

Provided you have sent one letter, recorded delivery and are being honest, you have absolutely nothing else to worry about! You don't need to phone, email or anything.

When I was in London, I knew two people that refused to have a tv in their house. They had similar treatment but simply complained to the police about the threatening letters and and threatened to sue for harrassment.

The letters stopped pdq!

Steve