I've just been listening to Radio 4, and apparently, scientists have figured out that you need to spend at least three hours a day for 10 years practising your chosen activity - sport, music etc. in order to achieve a decent level!!!!!!!!!!

That means that I'll be able to play this viola by the time I'm about 110!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How long do you spend each day practising?

That sounds like the commonly-expressed view that top-level performers will have done about 10,000 hours of practice. You don't really need that in order just to play and have fun - though it also depends to some extent on how *well* you practice,

To answer your question, If i was doing as i wished, about 30-60 mins day on my main instrument, and abput 15-30 mins a day on the others. But in reality, about 3 hours a week, split between three instruments. It's not enough..

nick

Not enough...

I spend at most 30 minutes on the harp, so I need 60 years!?

I do this amount too!!!

On average, four hours a day.

People seem to have the impression that 10000 hours is a lot. Over a period of years, it's not a huge amount. As an example, I worked out roughly how long it took me to get to a "professional" standard as a Civil Engineer. It was about 30 hours a week over a 33 week term for 4 years to get a degree, followed by 3 years full time employment to reach "Chartered" level - total about 9000 hours. Just like a professional musician, you go on learning after that too. Oh and that doesn't count the time spent on maths, physics, tech drawing and engineering metalwork at school beforehand.

So in the context of reaching a professional level, it really isn't that much. I offer some further thoughts:

Someone playing an hour a day for six years will rack up 2000 hours (often reckoned to be about the figure needed to get to grade 8). A further 3 years at music college doing (guesswork here) 3 hours a day, adds a further 3000 hours or so, so at that same rate a further 4 years would be needed to get to the magic 10000 hours. Not so different to other professions I would suggest.

Now the "obsessives" who rack up 4 hours a day from the age of 8, will already have hit 10000 hours by the time they are 15.

Oh and if you drive an average of 12000 miles a year at 30 mph, it takes 25 years to become "expert". Which explains a lot about the standard of drivers on our roads, doesn't it?

Almost forgot. As a beginner oboist, about 9 months in, I do about an hour a day, 6 days a week. I'm at the point where I think I need to crank that up a bit too.

I used to spend an hour-and-a-half about 4-5 times a week as a beginner. It took me up to grade 4 in just under two years and I was ticking along quite happily and quite content with the progress. (This was just for fun alonside my full-time career).

Now I'm lucky if I play 2 hours a week and it's not good. I'm not progressing at all and find it discouraging to pick up my violin and find myself in the same place every time.

Having said that, I am doing it for fun so sometimes just spend those hours playing things I like rather than hard practice! So no wonder I'm not 'improving'!! I seem to have fewer lessons overall too and sometimes spend them sightreading chamber pieces.

But I'm hoping this is just a phase (I'm v. busy with work) and when I start to play more hours again things will move along

I do 5 a day usually but I only started practicing seriously like this 3 years ago.

vln 45-60 mins per day, though i cant practice atm cos I have tendonitis in my thumb

I practice about 1-2 hours a day.

Can someone tell me how do you practice 4 hours a day? I sleep 8 hours, work 8-10 hours. BF/Lunch/Dinner together 1 hour, Shower,makeup ######: 1 hour. That's already 20 hours. So you do nothing else but practice? I really wish i can do that, but even if I can, my husband will be mad.

It's obviously the ###### that's standing in your way...

My ##### includes looking at this forum while watching the TV

This is certainly not good news when you start in your 30s.

Anyway like a lot of people have already said, depends what you call good.

My aim is to be able to play a grade 8 piece well. Not to take over the world with my amazing playing, better than anyone else who ever lived.

Besides I tend to compensate for my rubbishness by writing my own music. It means you write to your own playing strengths and can be original without being an extraordinary player!!

Or your 50s

Quite. I suspect most of us posting here aim to become reasonable amateurs, not play gigs at Carnegie Hall. So we'll probably never do 10000 hours of playing - or need to.

It is not easy, you have to be very disciplined, and it leaves little time for a second serious interest:

Workdays (Mon-Thur):

Sleep: 7 hours
Exercise: (run or swim or tai-chi) including shower after: 1 hour
Meals: up to 1.5 hours
Travelling place to place (bicycle): 1 hour
Work (computer programmer): 9 hours
Practice: 3 hours
Other stuff: 1.5 hours

Other days (Fri, Sat, Sun):

Sleep: 7 hours
Exercise including shower: 1 hour approx.
Meals: up to 2 hours
Travelling place to place (bicycle): 1 hour
Practice: 6 to 7 hours
Other stuff: 6 to 7 hours

Also:
On Tues and Fri "other stuff" includes 1 hour long classes in Harmony, Counterpoint and Ear training at the Conservatoire
I play a recital or provide music at a private party or accompany someone in performance about once every six weeks
Alternate Sundays - complete break - no piano, swimming or anything.

Average practice time works out at a little over 4 hours/day



p.s what is ###### ??

Mmm, yes. There seem to be two distinct camps here - those who fall into the above category (including myself) and those, often younger forum members, who are aiming for professions in music, so the first lot do a couple of hours per week where we can and the second several hours per day! Each is the right level for the aim.

Keep up the good work, everyone!

I practise 30 - 60 mins a day on viola, and 20 - 50 mins 2 days out of 3 for piano - I'm grade 5 - 6 in both. I usually practise a bit more at weekends, though
Should do more piano

Nowhere near long enough at the moment
Usually half an hour of scales when I arrive at college in the mornings - Violin on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays (ie when I have it with me) and Piano Monday and Wednesday.
Apart from that, basically just as much as I have time for in between college work, which so far is not much! I'm starting to make better use of my time though and things are settling down a bit more.

I don't practice anywhere near what I used to or what I should be doing now. My violin is lucky if it comes out of its case once ever 2 weeks for a play however I do still feel like i'm progressing considering I don't have a teacher. Flute practice varies depending on how much free time I've got, I would try to practice for at least an hour every other day however this isn't always possible. I play the piano whenever I can which is usually around 20 mins a day. All the other instruments are just whenever I get the time really.

I've now finished the music part (subsidiary subject) of my BEd degree which I was studying for 2 years so music is really just a hobby now and apart from maybe one day teaching I know I'll never be a serious player. I do however want to get to diploma level at some point with the piano and violin and I've just started to think about a programme for either LLCM or LTCL on the flute so my practice time there will definitely increase without a doubt!

Just wanted to add: How you use the time you have for practicing is very important. For example, it's easy to spend the time 'playing' over bits of pieces that you are good at rather than concentrating on the bits you aren't so good at and sometimes practicing technical and tonal work alone rather than whatever pieces you are working on can improve your playing more than anything else.

There were a couple of intersting threads on the 10,000 hours to mastery idea a year or more ago:

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=26094&hl

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=28740&hl

Personal update:

I am now up to over 8,000 hours of meaningful directed practice - spread over 11 years of seriously studying the piano (12-17, 25-30, 52-53 and counting). (Playing at it ages 7-12 and 25+ years as an adult playing just enough to avoid getting very much worse do not count towards that total).

At present rate of progress I'll reach the standard I am aiming for in about 5 more years by which time I'll have 14,000+ cumulative hours, and I'll be 58 years old.

My advice is stick at it ... don't take long breaks from working at your instrument ... work steadily over the years ... then you will not have to go at it like a madman later to try to make up for lost time.

I suspect the breaks are the thing that is making you take longer. And that maybe 10k is a bare minimum.

the 10,000 hours thing seems a silly generalisation to me, that fails to factor in relative levels of aptitude, intensity of practice and the fact that time spent practicing under the guidance of a poor teacher can be wasted or even counter productive.

I thought I posted here ages ago but apparently not..
So here goes

Oboe - try to do 2 hours a day every day. Usualy done but sometimes not
Piano - 30 min session try to do every day but doesn't worrk out well
Violin - nealy no practice at all...

I was listening to a radio programme a couple of months ago, and they were talking about the "10,000 hours to become skilled at something" thing. They actually said this figure had come from the traditional apprenticeships that you used to have in skilled crafts. These would last 5-7 years, which if you take a modern view of a 35-40 hour week, 48 weeks a year, comes out in the region of 10,000 hours...

Only silly if you think generalisations are generally silly.

Maizie has mentioned where she thinks this originates and whenever I see reference to it, "quality" normally comes into the discussion re. tuition and practice.

Obviously if someone is as thick as two short planks or has lost the use of their arms and is learning fiddle with their feet, it may take a little longer. Also most of us amateur dilletantes will never get there because we can't devote the amount of time required.