I just started on 3 octave scales recently and shifting to 5th position is WEIRD. I felt like my hand is in this weird position even though my thumb is under the neck and my elbow is closer to the right.

My teacher make me put my first finger down when I'm going up from high C all the way to G, which I find very difficult to do. I am also double jointed so the last extension is really difficult for me, my pinky locks up and intonation is bad.

I have to do this slurred 3 then slurred 6. I cannot even imagine slurring more than this, i felt like i'm totally hitting the wall!!

Can someone tell me how did you go from 2 octave scales to 3 octaves? How did you overcome the challenges with 5th position and above?

Quick edit to add that this is referring to violin!! I forgot that this is not a violin forum, but strings!!

Hi there,

Just wanted to sympathise. I'm currently going through grade 5 study and was shown that dreaded 3 octave G major a couple of weeks ago.

It does feel really unatural, especially that stretch with finger 1 on C and 4 on G. But I am already getting used to it.

I just have to try and not leave my thumb behind in third position!! lol

Good luck and keep going. I suspect it's the same for everyone and you just have to get used to it really!.

Any high grade violinists out there please let us know!

Liz

I suspect you don't bring your arm underneath the violin enough, thus making it "weird".

Just do it with arm moved underneath the violin more and it will become very easy.

Do you mean arm out from underneath the violin? Usually when moving to the higher positions, the arm comes out from under the fiddle to accomodate the hand travelling over the body... I've just had a quick check on my fiddle and I bring my arm slightly out from under the fiddle during the shift between the a and c on the g string. Might just be my dodgy technique, though !

I second rosfrog.

If you guys mean swinging my left elbow from underneath the violin to slightly to my right, so that my hand can "climb" over the fingerboard, I'm already doing it, and in order to keep my first finger down, i felt like my fingers are sorta standing up straight instead of the curve that I would like.. it's just awkward... granted i've only started not long ago, I hope this is like when I first learn to slur or use 4th finger, that it'll become 2nd nature soon?!

Try this excercise - do a portamento slide all the way up from the bottom (first position) to as high up the fingerboard as you can go and then back down again. Do it with each finger (on each or any string) and take your time. Keep your hand relaxed. Then you can also then add in the elbow movement - as you go up the finger board move your elbow round from the natural position to the right in a kind of slow swinging motion - back to natural position as you go down again. This will help stretch and strengthen your muscles and will help smooth out the arm movement as you move into higher positions.

Are you holding the violin correctly? Can you hold it between your chin and shoulder without support from the arm at all? Perhaps you are holding on too tightly.

Do you remember how AWFUL G major, 2 octaves was, when you first had to learn it for grade 1?
I bet though, that now it is the scale that you do for a very quick warmup when you get your violin out.

Just as you had to learn a whole new set of tricks to go from 1 octave to 2, now you are having to do the same to go from two octaves to three. It won't come overnight, but with careful, slow, thoughtful practice, remembering also that it is both your brain and your fingers that have to get used to this new way of doing things, you will get there.

As well as all the wise words that have already been said, do be sure to lift your hand as you bring it round, so that your fingers come in from above

Hi Cath, that sounds like a great exercise!!

Yes, I think I'm holding the violin correctly and yeah, i hold the violin like that alot when I'm getting ready (without arm)

Really? I never had any trouble with this, except the occasional getting of 2nd finger too sharp on the upper strings. (Mine's 2 octaves of C, but the fingerings are the same. )

Anyway, it is true that things get easier as you go along. I'm nowhere even near ready for basic shifting yet, but I remember the first sliding left hand along the fingerboard exercises I did and found immensely hard, whereas now I can do it just fine. (That's prep for the great day of 3rd position!! )

I learned the G major 2 octave scale within the first month, and it wasn't really an issue, now slurring them in one bow is BAD, i can't stand that still.

I remember my first "wall" was stretching my 4th finger to hit the high C (I still have problems with that and i prefer to shift to play that note now!)

Vibrato is another thing that is weird, adding the bow arm to it makes me feel like my left and right hand doesn't work together!! It's so bad... i hope I get over this wall soon!

In which case it's probably just a case of getting used to it as everyone else says. To be honest it never feels really natural as it's such an awkward position and the intervals between the notes get so close together at that end - but as everyone says it gets easier with practice.

http://violinmasterclass.com/shifting.php


has some videos which are helpful in showing what to do with thumb, elbow etc. Also some useful excercises.

You have the right idea. But you can also raise your left wrist slightly to help the fingers reach that much further. Also, remember that the thumb can travel as far as it needs to under the neck of the violin; it doesn't have to stay firmly glued to the left side!

Don't worry - it will come.

OMG, can someone please save me from this misery....

I am getting better with the 3 octave G major scale, practicing slurring 6 (just shoot me, but it's not that bad), and my teacher added A major and C major. I can deal with A major slowly. But the C major one is really killing me!! my fingers are all messed up in that high positions!! Advance violinist, can you help me out?

What fingering are you using for C major?

Remember that the choice of fingering is personal. I have a short little finger and small hands, so the fourth finger in high positions is of no use to me. Many teachers and players recommend a fingering that suits them, but completely forget that all players have a different physique, so be careful when someone says, "this is the correct fingering for XX scale". Within reason no it isn't, there's no right or wrong way, it's adapting a sensible fingering that is comfortable for you and your hand.

I recommend choosing a fingering that suits you, is reliable and consistent, otherwise that's when the confusion sets in.

EDIT: when it comes to tuning in high positions, practice, practice and more practice. There is not short cut. Just be mindful of how tiny the spaces get though and how quickly that happens - this is what catches most people out.

I don't have a short pinky, but it is very double jointed. I use 2nd position all the way up (I HATE 2nd position), so on the E string, 1st finger on high D, then shift to 1st finger on F, 2nd on G, 3rd on A, 4th on B, and 4th extension on the high high C.

My biggest issue... i cannot hear if i'm in tune or not when i'm all the way that high, and I forget what a C major sounds like up to that point, if i played for example, a F# instead of F natural, i would start playing this in G major not noticing it. IT's so annoying!!

Well, I was going to suggest (but only suggest!) a fingering for C major, but AmandaL has talked me out of it! However, if you're finding it confusing, it may be that you need to experiment with your fingering a bit more. If you hate second position, for instance, you could play the bottom octave in first, shifting into second as you begin the second octave. But I'd endorse her suggestion to try out different possibilities to find what suits you best. But when you've got it, stick with it!

When you start three-octave scales it can be very hard to hear intonation issues properly at the top, but as you continue to play them, it does get better and your ear will "learn" to hear the higher notes.

Can I tell you how happy you made me feel? I thought the G major scale 3 8ve was crazy and with this C major, anything higher than the G I have no clue what the heck I'm doing and i can't even tell if i'm still playing C major scales!!

I need to constantly picture the piano to figure out which notes are half step and whole step, its so sad!