I have a feeling I'd be praying for death long before the three hours were up! Sounds like some infernal torture to me!

Sorry, des, but to me these sort of pieces are on a par with getting so drunk you remember nothing at all. If I want to feel so brain dead, I go to sleep. I honestly don't believe that these pieces are still going to be played in 300 years' time, or even 50 years' time, except as historical curiosities. They say more about the current nature of society than they do about music.

It's interesting to hear from someone who obviously appreciates them, though. I'd be interested to see how many people would turn up to a Proms evening featuring them.

It may have been the Stockhausen that was referred to on Radio 4 at about 8 am on Sat morning. Apparently it lasts about 75 mins.

Sadly I can't remember anything else about it other than I was approaching Newbury on the A339 and already running almost 45 mins late.

The second Stockhausen prom was a piece called Stimmung - about 75 minutes of a 6 singers and a Bb9 chord, not as well attended as some but there were a fair few people there.

What do you think these pieces say about the nature of society?
I agree they don't even remotely resemble music before 1910, but because of that they have to be listened to in a totally different way. Pieces like the ones I've mentioned are less about some sort of emotional connection between composer and listener and more about introspection and perception. I value my experiences of Chartier and Vezzoli about the same as my experience of Mozart or Ligeti, though less than Beethoven or Mahler.

I'd rather sit for an hour listening to slowly changing drones than some vapid Tchaikovsky or totally predictable Vaughn-Williams

I think they show that there is too much change and information in daily life for humans to cope with at our current stage of evolution.

Many people are constantly exposed to noise of various volumes and pitches, as the radio goes on first thing in the morning, there is chatter or noise of various kinds at work, you can't go into a shopping centre or indeed any shop without exposure to canned music, etc. One protective response to this is so-called music which is really aimed at giving the sense of hearing a rest.

When I was little, my Dad would go off to a cricket match for the day, just to be able to do nothing. Other men I knew would go fishing for the same reason. All these things enable you to take time out and become introspective. It's the same with modern art - what is Rothko doing really, other than giving us the chance to look at very little and so give the sense of sight a rest. Similarly with the simple geometric pieces - they're just saying, take time out from looking at the very busy, changing scenes you have to cope with all day long. Pretend it's all so simple.

There's nothing wrong with modern art and music of this kind. If it's filling a niche for some people, that's fine. I think, though, that because society is constantly evolving, in 50 years' time these pieces will be viewed very differently. I'm probably wrong though! Maybe people thought that about "The Rite of Spring" too in its day. By 2058 we might have 30 hours of constantly changing drones and go on "wind down weekends" to listen to them. At least I'll be dead by then - the ultimate wind down!!

Yes, I was going to suggest LaMonte Young (who trained John Cale of The Velvet Underground, btw).

nick

BerkshireMum,

In response to your post earlier today, despite being a 'supporter' of minimalist music, I have to agree with most of your points. Minimalist painting and music can be a form of escapism from our hectic modern lives: and it is debatable whether that in itself can be seen as a good or bad way to appreciate art. Much 'antique' art can be viewed (and is certainly appreciated) in exactly the same way - an escape from what we find resentful in our quest for 'progress'.

Steve Reich's 'Drumming' is for me the piece that set me on the path of minimalism. It sounds like a world all of its own, being created as you listen. And so is his 'Music For 18 (I think?) Musicians'.

denmark

I didn't know that!



I couldn't agree less

I agree with Des. I find it frankly unbelievable that Rothko or Reich have created art specifically to give us a rest.

Fair enough! I admit I don't understand the appeal of these works at all, but I realise that some people value them highly. I obviously have a big hole in my soul where appreciation of this sort of art ought to be.

Just as a blind man can't fully appreciate sight, I just can't see anything in a lot of modern art and music. I have absolutely no idea why people want to look at Rothko, for example. A friend of mine paid to go to the exhibition at the Tate Modern, and then said how bleak the works had seemed - no wonder; I can't imagine how looking at blacks, greys and maroons could have any other effect.

This will be my last post on this topic. I'll leave those of you who enjoy minimalism to enthuse to your hearts' content!