Hi, after reading some of your posts on 'body pain' and 'shoulder rest or not'; I've decided to try and sort out my ache and pain once and for all! I've ditched the stiff shoulder rests and went for a small sponge. Wow! My aches are mostly gone, except for a tired shoulder (at the deltoid muscle). Thank you all for your posts.

Anyway, as I understand the violin is supported by the base of your first finger, the side of thumb and collarbone, if one is not using a shoulder rest. The problem is when I do arm vibrato, the violin will shake if I keep the contact of the base of my first finger on the scroll. If I release that contact, the violin will droop. What can I do to avoid this?

I think maybe you should try supporting the neck more from underneath and less as a clamp between the thumb and 1st finger. Also worth doing some shifting and vibrato excercises against a wall and if the scroll moves at all, you are using too much effort to shift/vibrato (basically the same action). it does just happen a bit though, in certain situations. I found my body sort of balanced itself out after 1/2 weeks of using arm vibrato and no shoulder rest.

Thanks, Bohemian. I will give it a try. Some of your posts on how not to use shoulder rest had been very helpful. Today I found that I need to stand straighter and stick my chest out (a bit like Joshua Bell, but not so extreme) and it's much better. No doubt, I still need to do some of the supported vibrato/shift exercises like you said. I find it easier to do wrist vibrato, but arm vibrato sounds more stable, so I will persevere.

Nononono plesase don't stick your chest out! Alexander Technique followers would have a field day (I am one). Your back should be straight, yes, but not curved inwards. You don't need to have your violin Heifetz height. Zimmerman I notice has his drooping a little in order to keep good posture (I assume) and seems to be fine for him. I would work around your posture with violin height, rather than alter your posture to make it higher. Consider having just 1 or 2 Alexander lessons to deal with this.

I had the same thing with arm/wrist vibrato not too far back. It's a complete pain learning arm but really worth it as it fixes a lot of other things like shifting and intonation (keeps a more stable hand position). Good luck! Let us know how it is going.

Funny you said that because today, chest out is not so good for me (upper arm and shoulder ache). Towards the end of my practice, I let the violin droop a bit and seems to have done the trick. Will try again tommorrow.

Yippee! I passed my Grade 8 violin. It wasn't an easy ride.

It's been a while since I wrote on this topic. I've been preparing for this exam and finding out ways to hold the violin better. First, I stopped using shoulder rests. Then to a sponge, but still didn't quite work. I increased the height of my chinrest as suggested by some of your posts. It worked better. Then, I added a sloped moon shape shoulder pad (sponges flatten too quickly after some usage). The pad is okay but prefer it a little bit flatter.

Anyone use the Huber pads? Are they less likely to flatten?

Congratulations on your Grade 8!
I've changed to using a Huber pad two or three months ago and no, I don't think it is flattening at all. It seems to be the right way to go for me, together with a heightened chinrest (I was using a Wolf rest before). Lots of things have improved but I'm still finding arm vibrato unreliable.

N

Thank you.
Yeah, I think I'll give the pads a try too. They're not going to break the bank unlike some of the rests I've tried before.

I thought I'd 'revive' this thread as I've just purchased the Huber pads today as I intend to learn to play without the shoulder rest starting next week, after my grade 5 exam.
why do I want to learn without shoulder rest? I don't have any problems with the shoulder rest, no pain, no problems, so one should think I am 'sorted' and why want to go down a different road?

well...I've heard so many good things about being without a shoulder rest (loads of people commenting on how 'liberating' it is, how they have better vibrato, are more physically in tune with their violin etc etc) that I have been wondering for a long time whether I'd be one of these people who 'love' playing without a shoulder rest! only if I don't learn to play without one, I'll never know whether I prefer it or not!

so anyway, bought the huber pads as thought it might help with the 'violin slippage' problem. I've only given the huber pad a little go today and I must say I AM IMPRESSED, it does hold the violin in place, indeed I can still hold the violin just with my chin/jaw pressure on chin rest if I wanted to.

So now after my grade 5 exam this coming thursday I'll start practicing without shoulder rest but with huber pad, I'll start with 5 minutes a day then upgrade by 5 minutes every week or so. Only after at least 6 months of trying with no shoulder rest I will start thinking whether I like it better or not

thumbs up for the huber pad

I am learing Vibrato at the mo and I dont use a shoulder rest.

So far, the best technique/advice ive been given is out of Simon Fischer's "basics". He says to start a vibrato - if the scroll moves at all then conciously loosen wrist & fingers until you can vibrate without the scroll moving.

Ive been having a little trouble with the old tension problem - and once I read that bit from Simon Fischer, its helped no end. Its amazing cos I thought I only had a bit of tension - but actually when I loosen the fingers etc enough to stop the violin shaking, its shocking jst how much tension I had.

I am learning wrist vibrato first then will go onto Arm. Simon Fischer reckons you should choose 1 to start with, once you are ok with that, then learn the other one.

Best of luck

I'm in the process of learning vibrato properly as a bit of a late starter.

The trouble I have is getting a shoulder rest that will free up my arm to allow vibrato in a way that won't make the viola shake.

Just a thought; if your shoulder rest is too far along your shoulder (towards the arm not the neck) it can be really get in the way of free movement. You could fit in on the viola so that when in playing position it is more central, and that might free up your arm.
N

Thanks N

I'm tempted to take my viola along to a music shop in London and try loads out to see if I can get one to fit properly.