Showing my ignorance here...

Do instruments sit in a fixed place in wind bands the same way they do in orchestras? In the one I go to, if you're standing in the conductor's place looking at the players from left to right people sit as follows:
1st row: clarinets, oboe, flutes, alto saxophones
2nd row: more clarinets, baritone sax, tenor saxes
3rd row: trumpets, trombones

A couple of weeks ago I arrived late and there was an empty space the other side of the flutes so I just sat there and I found it to be a much more comfortable position to play in. Having a flute on my left means that the flute is playing literally into my ear and I have trouble hearing myself. Also the flutist immediately beside me has a very slow vibrato which I find very off putting when trying to know what the actual pitch of any particular note is. With the flutists on my right (and no longer playing in my ear) I could hear myself much better and also hear precise notes rather than fluctuating ones. I wondered if I could ask to swap or if this goes against windband etiquette.

I am also curious about how other wind bands tune. This one doesn't except for concerts when the conductor has an electronic tuner and gets everyone to play a note individuallyand then tells them it it sharp or flat. I hate tuning this way. I don't mind tuning to somebody else's A and I don't mind tuning to a tuner if I can see it but I find it very hard to tune if I don't know what I'm tuning to. One of my failings as an oboist is a lack of confidence when I play my first note and since the oboe is so sensitive to any variation in embouchure and air speed a diffident first note is invariably out of tune. If I know what I am aiming for then I can (usually unless there is a problem with the reed) correct the tuning by adjusting one or the other but I can't do this if I don't know how flat or sharp I am.

It sounds pretty similar to the one that I play in:
From where the conductor is, from left to right: front row, 1st clarinets, 2nd alto sax, 1st alto sax, oboe, 1st flutes; 2nd row, 2nd &3rd clarinets....gap....tenors and bari sax, french horns, trumpet, trombone, 2nd flutes; 3rd row, string bass, tuba and drums at the side.
I nearly always end up sitting in more or less next to the tenor saxes and in front of the brass, but next to the first flutes on the left, apart from it being a bit loud when the brass decide to really go for it, it's good to be next to the first flute, as the oboe and the 1st flute are often playing together.

As for tuning, the transposing instruments tune (more or less) to the 1st clarinet, and the flutes and concert pitch instruments tune to the oboe and I try to fit with the clarinets, then everyone plays their tuning note individually and adjusts accordingly.
I occasionally use a electronic tuner, but when everyone is playing together it gets confused!!

Sounds a bit odd to me. All of the wind bands I've seen/played in have had from the conductor's perspective (L to R), 1st Row: Piccolo/Flutes, Oboe, Clarinets 2nd Row: Flutes, Saxes (highest - lowest), clarinets 3rd Row: Brass in a slightly variable order (normally something like Horns, Trumpets/Cornets, Trombones, Euphonium, Tuba , and any bassoons/bass clarinets/extra clarinets.

Normally you'd have the same instruments in a block, so unless you are the whole oboe section then you'll probably need to stay where you are. You could always try persuading the conductor to have the clarinets and flutes switch sides I suppose.

Most of the time we'd tune to the oboe, and they'll normally have a tuner on their stand to make sure they're not leading the rest of us astray. Not tuning isn't the best thing, but the conductor may have decided it takes too long to get everyone playing in tune to be worthwhile at rehearsals, especially if some players are likely to play out of tune regardless of how many times or how long they spent tuning. Couldn't you just keep a tuner on your stand, or check your pitch against a tuner before your conductor does his check? Then even if he does tell you to change it's not likely to be by much.

Us we sit Left to right 1st Row: Piccolo/Flutes, Oboe, Clarinets 2nd Row: Flutes, bassoon, bass clarinet, alto clarinet, 2nd clarinets. 3rd row 2nd flutes, clarinets 4th row saxes alto, tenor, barry horns trumpets, trombones, tuba percussion something like that. Tuning wouldnt listen to flutes we are always sharp unles you have an american one then they play flat

Our band seems to be a mixture of all yours, but we recently changed conductor and merged with another band. Our band was:
Front L to R: Flutes, Oboes (when we have one!)
Second: 1st clar, 2nd clar, alto sax, ten sax, sopr sax, bass clar
Back: Trumpets, french horn, tromb, baritone, tubas etc

The new band has the 2nd clars behind the 1st.


Bear in mind that this is Italy so everyone's very easy going and laid back.

We don't tune from anyone. After playing approx 5 mins, the conductor checks the 'Do' round the room.

Forget the jokes about violas. You should hear our tubas!

Steve

I am the whole oboe section
That's why I thought perhaps I could just sit the other side of the flutes. Asking the flutes and clarinets to move would involve moving about 12 people.
Before I joined they had no oboes so I'm not too sure how much thought the conductor gave to where he told me to sit.

Like Itchy, my part is often (but not always) the same as the first flute but the way we sit at the moment I am next to the second flute. Swapping to the other side would mean I was next to the first flute.

As for tuning, I think I will take an electronic tuner with me to the next concert but I will also have to ask him what pitch we're playing at as quite often in France it tends to be 442 (rather than 440). As they didn't have an oboe before and there are two conservatoire-trained clarinettists in the band (one of whom has perfect pitch), I had just assumed that we would tune to them.

What I did find strange about the tuning is that at no time did any of the instruments (or even any of the sections) play a note together to check the tuning.

The band I play in is the local music centre concert band, so the seating arrangements are flexible...but I always make sure I elbow my way in between the flutes and the alto saxes, like Keri I am the oboe section!

As to tuning, I try to tune up first so I'm playing A at 440 and check it with my tuner but then we check with the 1st clarinet and then everyone plays their tuning note. Very occasionally we have to stop and retune a section after about 15 minutes, but not often. The flutes seem to be the chief culprits!

That's weird!

The conductor should insist on this after about 5 minutes when everyone's warmed up. It very rare that there isn't someone a little out of tune in our band. Usually a trumpet, sax or tuba.

Steve

I'm fairly sure that in the band I used to play with, the flutes and clarinets were the opposite way round to what's in your band. Which makes sense - it makes more sense for the flutes to be pointing towards the audience than towards another player's ear.



From what I know about clarinets (someone correct me if I'm wrong!) the concert A is not a particularly stable note, so one wouldn't normally want to tune to them. And having perfect pitch won't necessarily help the clarinettist play at a particular Hertz - the difference between 440 and 442 is too tiny, I'd have thought.

Good idea to ask the conductor what he is tuning you to. If it's 440, and you think you are normally at 440 when you test yourself against a tuner, just play a loud confident A when it's your turn to be 'tested', and you will probably be giving him a 440! You never know, he might even let you give the tuning note in future... If he's at 442, though, talk to your teacher about shorter reeds!

I play with a university concert band, and it's enormous.

Looking from where the conductor stands; the clarinet section is on his right (taking up half the space) with the flutes on his left taking up an equal amount of space, with 1sts on the front rows, going back to thirds at the back.

The oboes sit right in the middle with the bassoons(I should say bassoon) behind them next to the bass clarinet.

The saxes are on the third row with 1st altos being on the left, going down through 2nds, tenor and baritone to the right.

The lower brass fit behind the saxes, with the trumpets and horns being behind the flutes.

Percussion goes right at the back.

It's kind of like a arch shape, as orchestras are. This is a band of about 70.

We tune Bb and all the brass instruments to a Bb and the C instruments to an A.

I love concert bands

This is my wind band, from the conductors point of view.

Left to right (In a semicircle)

Row 1: Oboes then Flutes with one piccolo at the very right.
Row 2: Saxophones, clarinets and two flutes at the right.
Row 3: Trumpets, french horns, trombones, bassoons
Row 4: Baritone, Euphonium and Tuba (but they are behind the trombones and basoons, and don't go the whole way across the semi circle.

I agree with that...and I play with a university band...! The only differences are we have the percussion to the far right (our rehearsal space doesn't go far enough back) and piano and string bass to the far right. Ours is a huge band too.

In my windband from left to right for the conductor it is:

1st row: 1st flutes, piccolo, oboe, 1st clarinets
2nd row: 2nd flutes, alto saxes, tenor saxes, baritone sax, 2nd clarinets
3rd row: French horns, trumpets, trombones, euphonium, bass clarinet, bassoon, 3rd clarinets


With regards to tuning we used to tune to A and now tune to Bb we had a windband composer spend a day with us who suggested Bb was better for windbands. He said A was better for orchestras as it is an open string for violins. We tune to the first clarinet. We used to not tune much at all but now play one piece to warm up, tune to one note them work through a series of tuning exercises. We have only been doing this a few weeks but it seems to be making a difference.

Okay, now I'm confused! So what's new?

We always tune to what 'we' call Do... i.e. C.

But this is Bb at concert pitch.

So if an oboe in a wind band provides the tuning note, what note is it.... at concert pitch?

I've already explained how our conductor works, so even on the occasions when we have an oboe, it makes no difference. We all play Do... ie Bb.


Steve

Concert pitch is Bb so the flutes and oboes are Bb, the clarinets, tenors, trombones and trumpets are C and alto saxes are G.

I have no idea if what he is saying is correct but that is what we have been doing for a while and it seems to be ok....

My teacher tunes to 442 so that is what my reeds are supposed to play at but I do have one that is supposed to be 440 which I have used in the UK. My teacher has helpfully told me that he plays in two orchestras, one of which tunes to 442 and one to 441 so I'm not sure that there is really a standard in France.

Part of my problem last time was the conductor asked me to tune first but didn't specify a note so I played an A and he told me I was very, very flat. After struggling and struggling to lip up the note and failing to get anywhere near high enough for him he asked me what note I was playing and it turned out he was comparing it to a B flat. I then swapped to B flat but by this time it was much too high and I was also totally stressed by the whole thing as we were tuning in public so I pulled the reed out. By the time he had tuned everyone else, I had calmed down a little and when we started playing I could hear I was flat but with the very wide flute vibrato in my ear I couldn't identify a reliable note to try and tune to and ended up playing out of tune most of the time. (Or at least that's the impression I had).

I remember having a similar problem in a windband where the conductor insisted on turning to C above middle C. Try playing that nice, in tune and steady on a flute when you're nervous.

Have always tended to sit with the oboe to the left of the flutes, and right of the clarinets (so somewhere in the middle).

Sounds like your conductor's a bit of an idiot, to be honest. (I hope he's not a friend of yours!) Surely he should be able to *tell* you're playing an A when he wants a Bb?!

He's not a friend of mine (I'd never met him before I joined the wind band) so it doesn't matter what you say about him He's a trombone teacher (but not my daughter's teacher) and primarily a jazz player. He is just old enough to have done compulsory military service which for musicians seems to have meant a year playing in a military wind band with lessons from very good teachers and nothing to do but practise all day!

I suppose he just assumed that I knew that wind bands tuned to Bb.

Good grief, 70 which uni is that may I ask?

Wind bands seem to be getting bigger! The uni band I play in has 100 people apparently signed up for the next concert, and we're entering the National Concert Band Festival the day after...not sure we'll fit in the hall!

We don't tune our instruments normally in practices.

But at the beginning we all have to play a Bb scale (C for clarinets, F for french horn, etc.)

Keele Uni, its in the Midlands and is amazing. I don't go to the uni but its open to anyone in the surrounding area. (I live about 45 mins away) So when a trainee teacher from there came to my school, she asked me to join because they had no bassoons, so there I am. Went on tour last year to France with them, now that WAS an experience! I think I was the youngest there... It was still fun though

I met the musical director of our wind band last night, and after some sort of conversation in the pub, he has said that he will write me some proper oboe parts, as opposed to doubling flutes or clarinets most of the time He then went on to say that he's done an arrangement of Bohemian Rhapsody for the band with an oboe solo...but he'd had 2 or 3 pints by then....

Our Wind Band has proper wind band sheet music, complete with parts for all instruments.

Wind Bands are big business in Europe so someone saying that they will write oboe parts would start ringing alarm bells!

What are they up to???


Steve

Just make sure he knows that oboes tire more quickly than flutes and clarinets.

Most of the music our wind band plays has a proper oboe part. However, there are a couple of pieces that the conductor and a friend have arranged. These didn't have an oboe part (they obviously weren't going to bother to write one before they had an oboe ). Last week he gave me an oboe part for one of them saying that he had spent the week writing the part specially for me. He then added that he thought it was a pity that I never got to play all the way through a piece like the clarinets so this one has no bars rest in it!!!!! Not only does it have no bars rest in it but it doesn't use particularly oboe friendly notes in it either - I think it's actually even less oboe-friendly than transposing the flute part down an octave which is what I was doing previously in this particular piece.

He writes his own pieces and arranges things for the concert band, but also uses proper published sets of concert band music with oboe parts, but in my experience I've usually ended up doubling the flute most of the time. I'm just glad that he wants to arrange a proper oboe part instead of 2nd flute or 1st flute transposed down an octave!
It's not that I mind playing with the flutes but it would be nice to have something a bit different.

I agree we have nice extensive oboe solos no writing required and they dont always double the flutes in fact rarely.

If you're a small group, and never know when that oboe will turn up / how long you'll have that trumpet / other, than arranging all the music yourself is probably the best option.

At least them everyone always has the support required, and parts can generally be covered.

I played 'oboe' for a while on flute, transposing up when solo-ing or playing something that needed to stand out from the other flute bits.

Wind band I'm in:

1st row: flutes, clarinets
2nd row: more flutes, alto sax, tenor sax, bari sax, more clarinets
3rd row: (more flutes? I'm not sure) Horn, trumpets, trombones, euphonium, me on tuba, bass clarinet, perhaps more clarinets.

We don't have any double reeds

We tune to a Bb, which seems logical for us brass anyway as its open for me and euphonium and an open C for trumpets. Also a C for clarinets which I'm presuming is a nice note to tune(??)

It's exactly the same as the trumpets.

We read a C but the note is really a concert pitch Bb.

Yes, it is a nice note. The note that we read as Bb (concert pitch Ab) is the worst note on the clarinet!

Steve

PS To make things simpler, could we all remember the difference between the note we read on the page and the true note - ie concert pitch?

With all these C, Bb, F and Eb instruments about, it can get rather confusing at times!