Im an adult returner to the violin, was working towards grade 8 and gave it up, more fool me. That was 20 yrs ago and Ive been having lessons again since May and am slowly getting there but my bowing is sort of tense???
When I get to a difficult passage especially in faster pieces, I think Im concentrating that much my bowing goes to pot and becomes short and horrid. If I get my bowing more flowing I end up going slower. My teacher has given me studies to do to try and improve it but anyone got any tips as Im really struggling.

Anyone???

Sorry, hadn't replied before because not really qualified but...

I returned after about 30 year break having narrowly passed grade 8 as a child so similar level to you. Firstly just keep practising the studies and it will come together.

I also found doing some very simple bowing every day on open strings using a mirror to watch angle of bow to string, sounding point (how near the bridge or fingerboard you are) elbow height and wrist position was helpful. Roughly in order of of difficulty I worked on (and still do):-

Full length bows on single open string (each one in turn)

On open string work at tip and heel (Long down bow, then up down at tip, long upbow, down up at heel repeat)

String crossing full bows Down bow A string, up bow E and other way round (and D, A and G, D)

Do the string crossing one above at the tip only and heel only

Add some slurred string crossings

That helps me. Just keep it slow, look in the mirror, make sure elbow is at correct height and changes height as you cross string. Watch the wrist, sounding point, bow angle and check that the bow tip is not waving side to side when you are at the heel or hand going side to side when at the tip.


All the above are my own invention and I am not really qualified so may be rubbish, but I think they helped me

You're frustration is possibly getting the better of you. Having reached Grade 8ish in the past you know you can do it. Essentially, if you are playing short fast notes, then your bowing should be shorter to accomodate the change of bow direction at speed - this will avoid a loss of co-ordination between both hands. However, if the bowing becomes hard and the tone quality suffers, then this is more likely to be an issue of tensing in the hand and arm, resulting in a bow stroke that's coming from shoulder movement.

In short bow strokes, the movement must come from the elbow, wrist and even fingers. Only this way will you achieve the same tone quality as that of longer bow strokes.

Use a mirror to watch your arm. Play short bow strokes on open strings and alternate strings rapidly.

There's no magic fix I'm afraid, everyone is individual as to how quickly they succeed at this, but patience, practice and time will help.

Hi Louby

I've only been playing since May so I don't think I'm qualified to answer this either but you can have my ideas!

The best thing I use is a mirror to check whether I am bowing straight as I can't tell if I am otherwise. At the start of every practise I try to do some full bows on each string and also half bows and combinations of, eg full bow to tip then down a bit, back to the tip and full bow to the heel, then up a bit, down a bit and full bow to tip, etc

I also practise the easier scales that I know really well using full bows, half bows and combinations of both as this helps me to do both fingers and bowing together.

I have to do these quite slowly to get a decent sound but the practise is paying off. My teacher has given me loads of these type of exercises so if this is what you are after let me know and I'll tell you some more but sorry if they are too basic for you.

However, when I am doing something new or challenging my bowing is shockingly bad so don't be disheartened!

Spark

Thanks for all your help everyone. Ive got plenty to be going at now. It is so frustrating as I just cant do it and I do think I am tensing up. The piece Im playing and struggling to get a decent sound is Bach Concerto in A Minor. My bowing is stubby, thats the only way I can describe it. Im playing the right notes at the right time but it sounds choppy and not flowing, so Im going to get practicing the techniques youve shared with me.
Thanks again

Now why did I think the Bach A minor might be the piece you were working on

Probably because baroque works like this require a nice relaxed bow hold, fluid movements from the elbow, wrist and fingers.

Stick with it louby, it will happen!

Thanks AmandaL
Its been driving me mad as if I slow it down I can do it but speed it up and stubby stubby stubby
Had a lesson last night and weve had a breakthrough Its my elbow, which tenses up, so after lots of open string bowing and then the dreaded study, getting up to Bachs speed, I was finally much better.

Yay Breakthrough moments are the best!

I have to say, having basically learnt bow technique from scratch ("this is where you put your thumb" level) in 2 years (took around 30 minutes of open strings a day though), that while it starts off slowly and feels like too much information to process, the more different techniques you do the more things will come together and you will find that learning one technique will help another along a lot. Like once you have covered martele you can do up-bow staccato and sautille in a strange way helps legato bowing (teaches you how to bounce the bow and therefore how not to!).

If you are serious about building bow technique can I suggest that you get Casorti school of bowing technique and work through all the basic strokes with your teacher? It doesn't take much time per day but you will be amazed at how bowing will eventually no longer be an issue. For Bach A minor you might find looking at Sevcik Op 2 useful as well as it is basically just a bunch of exercises on string crossing without difficult notes or musical content so you can be 100% focussed on making a good sound with good technique.

Thanks I will definately have a look for that.
Its so frustrating as in my younger days I had no problems at all. Things I found so easy years ago are so difficult now. Its simple things like 2nd, 4th position, very high notes that I struggle with when it was all so natural in the past. Im sure I will get there eventually