Thanks, Barry and Flossie. I have printed everything out now and collected my music together. It'll soon be over, bar the long wait for the results.

Fingers crossed for you! Will there be a party if all goes well?

Good luck Andante Hope it all goes well

All the best Andante! I'm sure you don't need luck Hope it goes well!

Thanks to everyone for the good luck messages. It's not luck I need so much as calming vibes.

Good luck - AND calming vibes...

W

All the best, including calming vibes

Sending lots of calming vibes, hope they are not too late! :hug:

Thanks, all.

It wasn't too bad on the whole. The QS was a lot easier than I expected: a hornpipe in G major and 4/4 with lots of accidentals. I played a few wrong notes, but hope I got the style and dynamics across.

The viva was OK apart from one question.

The solo parts of the recital could have been better, but I was pleased with the ensemble parts.

Haven't a clue if I've passed.

I'm sure you will have passed, and the very best of luck to you both for the results.

Hope they don't make you wait too long, glad it all went reasonably well even if not all of it went as well as you would've liked. If I were a betting person, I'd lay money on your having done much better than you think!

Unfortunately the examiners didn't think I had done enough.

Now to look at the detailed comments and decide what to work on before I contemplate a retake....

Oh dear so sorry to hear that Katy.

Very sorry to hear that kj...

Oh dear - am very sorry indeed to hear this

What a bummer!
Absolutely no shame in not getting this first time though. I will never, ever get to this level.

So bravo - sounds like it was Performance rather than Teaching?

What aspects did they fail you on, Katiejay? There are several professional singers on these fora it seems and I'm sure some of us could give you good advice.

Yes, it was Recital rather than Teaching.


Thanks for the sympathy everyone.



I know there are professional singers on these fora - I'm one of them. And I will be seeking advice from the appropriate people in the near future.

Oh, that's really bad news! I hope the examiners' comments do prove to be helpful - I'm sure you can't have been far away from a pass...

W

Sorry, katiejay. I hadn't realised you were a professional singer too. I'm sorry to hear that you failed your diploma in that case. I hope you'll be able to improve your performance if you decide to take it again. Good luck.

So sorry to hear that Katjay.

ET

Bad luck KJ. I'm still in awe of someone who has reached the standard to even contemplate entering that exam.

Hope the comments give some positive pointers.

I'm very sorry to hear this, KJ. Chin up. All the best for the re-take, should you decide to do it.

Sorry to hear this, KJ. I'm sure you'll make it the next time.

Can't believe it, KJ, so sorry to hear

Sara

Katyjay -In the words of a popular song

"pick yourself up and start all over again" - but maybe not ALL over.

Everyone has expressed their thoughts and ideas which reflect mine, too.

x
d

Sorry to hear that Katyjay. I didn't pass first time either, and I spent the next two years working hard before I finally did retake and pass. My accompanist was a Royal Schools diploma examiner (and also my coach at Trinity) and he felt I should have passed. Obviously the examiners didn't. I was devastated at the time, but looking back on it, I'm really glad I didn't. Those two extra years of weekly lessons did me the world of good, and I know now that my performing and teaching is in a different league from what it would have been had I passed first time, because I would not have continued with the intense training. Out of every adversity comes a seed of equal or greater benefit (can't remember who said it, but they were so right!).
Give yourself a while to pick yourself up and then carry on with renewed enthusiasm, and you too will reap the benefits.

Ann

Given that the mark is either 'approved' or 'not approved', I hope they have given you good, constructive feedback which illustrates what needs to be done to fall the right side of the line next time. My worry is that the lack of scoring at FT level might lead to vague conclusions by the examiner with little illustration of how much further one would need to push oneself. I hope in your case, KJ, they have offered ample explanation and advice.

Agreed. When I was 'not approved' the comments were sufficiently vague to wonder what on earth I had to work on. When I was 'approved' the comments were really detailed as to why I had reached the level. But then, different examiners...the first was not a singer - I had to declare knowing the specialist, and she was replaced by an instrumentalst who was less qualified in her own instrument that I was already in mine, the second actually had FTCL, and a host of others. On the other hand, I believe that all those nice comments could not possibly have been made about me the first time I took it.

Neither of my examiners is a singer - one is an accompanist who works primarily with singers (same background as my LTCL examiner.....) and the other is a specialist in Music Education who conducts a choir. No mention of a fellowship diploma for either of them - although the choir conductor has an MSc.

The feedback is fairly general.

Now that must be frustrating...
One would expect for the c.GBP350 fee to get something more helpful than that.
Do they mark 'approved'/'not approved' in sections? e.g. stagecraft, programme notes, repertoire selection, performance or is it just lumped together into a single assessment?

Yes, it is frustrating.

No, no sections, just an overall result.

That's exactly like mine Katyjay. I forgot to say that when I did pass, my FTCL qualified man was a singer. Hence the detailed comments about the SINGING. The first report was very generalistic and the kind of thing you would expect from an instrumentalist. I do feel at this level there should be a specialist as well as an academic. It's a point I raised with the Director of Examinations, who agreed with me. Whether that had any bearing on me getting a specialist later on, I cannot say.

It IS a single assessment commentory - A4 sheet - but the categories you mention are all commented on in the assessment - or should be. I think it's done that way because it's the overall package you present which has to be a combination of everything to give a professional performance - the overall being greater than the sum of its parts, or something like that!

Really sorry to hear about this Katyjay.


ooh, this is frightening. I'm in no rush of taking my FTCL, but the thought of having no specialist of your instrument/voice on the panel will scare me definitely (this will be like going back to uni rectial exams). maybe i should take those RCOs diplomas first (don't want to speculate an arguement here!)....

Only just caught up with this. Sorry to hear your news, Katyjay.

Trying to catch up, just seen this - so sorry to hear that kj


How frustrating

At times this can work for the candidate and at other times not so. Obviously a singer will understand the technical sides of a performance better which again may be a good or a bad thing. Any examiner or examining panel will know what to look for in terms of stagecraft, presentational skills and musicianship.

It is only a good thing if your technique is not tip top, surely? Therefore it is a good thing to have a specialist at diploma level, or undeserving candidates would be awarded it. Why bother training to get to a super standard if others can "get away" with not? It devalues the diploma.

Just caught up with this thread. I'm very sorry to hear this, Katyay, and hope that you've manged to get something positive out of the experience.

Having passed FTCL at the first attempt.i believe that it is important to make sure that the recital is performed well,with no weakness and that the examiners see that you sparkle in such a way that they feel they cannot and must not fail you.Ihave sent kj a pm

I'm not sure I understand that - admittedly it'd be a good while before I'd have the gumption to attempt this one, but this advice feels to me as general as KJ's result sheet sounds to have been.... . Katyjay researches thoroughly, and knows how to read a syllabus and exam requirements, but it sounds as if this experience doesn't really help her that much to know what she would need to address in order to get the result she would wish. Yes of course, one needs to perform well, but if the examiners feel something was not performed well enough, then they need to say why, so that the candidate can address that, whether that is in the realm of technique, expressivity or communication. I would also have thought that by far the best advice and criticism then would come from a specialist, who knows not only what makes good music, but also what has gone into the production of that good music.
Having said that, it goes to show that FTCL is no walkover, and when KJ can rally to attempt it again, hopefully with the right result next time, she'll be able to value that all the more for knowing what it means to pass .

Sorry to hear this Katykay. Good luck for next time.
Beverley.

Discussions like this come up quite often about on the forums whether it is correct that a diploma should be examined by someone who is not a specialist in that instrument. My own opinion is that surely a specialist must be appointed for these exams, particularly if you consider the cost of entry/retaking.

I don't hold with arguments to the effect that it might sometimes help the candidate as a non-specialist may not notice this or that error in technique. Bear in mind that the converse is also true as some pieces of music are far harder to play than they sound, part of the skill being to make them sound effortless. Only someone who had attempted these pieces themselves would know this. A non-specialist might think it was easy because it sounded effortless.

I'm not saying the examiner needs to be e.g. a better flautist than the candidate, but they should be a specialist in the flute and its repertoire rather than a bassoonist who just happened to be free that afternoon (no offence intended to bassoonists).

In any case, I would rather not have the diploma at all if I felt I had somehow "fooled" a non-specialist examiner to get it, and tales like these have put me right off taking the FRSM.