One of my grade 1 candidates came this morning, having done her exam last week, and although she was content overall with how it went, she was rather puzzled that her examiner asked her to play a scale hands together.

Fortunately she had the presence of mind to say she hadn't learnt them hands together, and didn't attempt to play any. The examiner didn't comment but simply carried on with the exam.

What is not clear from her account is whether the examiner realised his mistake. If he did, all well and good - probably. If he didn't, I guess it will be clear from the marks. In any case I shall let the board know about the mistake - a candidate could be badly thrown by this. There was a trainee in the room, so one would hope that if one didn't realise the other one might have done?

I know similar things have happened to others at various times - what I can't remember is what people have found the board's response to be in cases like this.

I think this is quite worrying, especially if your student is young. Most young students would have been really thrown by this and wouldn't have known what to say. At least your student spoke up, which is admirable. I can't understand how any examiner could ask for a Grade 1 scale to be played with both hands - what a basic mistake to make!

Presumably it wasn't C major in contrary motion requested in a way your pupil wasn't used to being asked?

I'm rather surprised that an examiner who is sufficiently experienced to be supervising a trainee should make a mistake in a Grade 1 piano exam - they must do oodles of those. If he did slip up, I'm sure he'd have realised when it was pointed out.

It's probably worth a quick email to the Board, but not worth worrying about too much as from what you said it didn't seem to unsettle your pupil (although I agree it could easily have thrown a nervous candidate).

That is a thought - and I must admit that hadn't occurred to me - possibly because I think that had been asked anyway. But if he simply asked differently the second time my pupil may not have realised that it was the same request differently phrased. Anyway if that is the case all should be well.

Thanks Jenny and Czerny for your replies.

Yes, that is a thought. But you would expect an examiner to ask for 'C major in contrary motion' rather than 'C major with both hands' wouldn't you? At least that's what I always tell mine to expect.

My Barry was asked for a scale that wasn't in the grade 3 guitar exam, and pointed it out at which the examiner apologised, BUT, it threw Barry completely and he was a wreck for the rest of the exam.
Bev.

Yes - I think this could all too easily happen. My pupil doesn't seem to think it put her off - yet she was clearly puzzled by it, and who knows what bit of her mind may have been distracted while playing her pieces, wondering, for example, if she had said the right thing.

Jenny, yes, I wouldn't normally refer to it any other way.

Perhaps the examiner was trying to be helpful by reminding the candidate that 'contrary motion' meant the one that uses two hands. Who knows?!

This is possibly a reason for an examiner to make a mistake! I have heard stories from examiners saying sometimes when you are under pressure and examining loads you just get a little addled momentarily and ask for something before immediately realising you're looking at the wrong syllabus or something.

I'm sure the board will keep it in mind Maggie, but if your student didn't appear to be affected by it they may not do anything to her marks sheet.

I did mean over time, rather than all at once! But I'm sure that can happen during a long day - it must be quite intensive.

At least with my son's grade 8 exam, he should be able to do every scale, arpeggio, chromatic,.... it would be hard to ask something not on the list ... but then there are always the aural tests to be asked wrong!!

My son got asked for Grade 3 scales in his Grade 2 piano exam. He was 11.
In our case it was very funny. He decided the teacher hadn't got around to teaching him them and since the first one was a chromatic he just did it. But he only did one octave so the examiner made him do it again with two octaves. Then he was asked for a broken chord, and he just looked at the examiner and said "Huh?". The examiner said something like "Wrong scales" and then asked him something off the Grade 2 list.
Jamie was totally unphased by the whole thing which I honestly believe contributed to his merit.
Jamie's teacher did let the board know.
Hopefully your pupil will just remember it as a great story to tell.
Dora

I've heard of this happening before so what I do is tell my students, "It's unlikely, but sometimes the examiner might ask you to do something we haven't done, if so, just tell them!" Hoping I haven't missed out anything with them!

I think you made the right choice with your course of action.

Just to add an update - the board have acknowledged my e-mail and will look into the matter before issuing results.

Look on the bright side ... at least these guys are piano examiners .... not surgeons or airline pilots or high court judges

I think we need to differentiate between surgeons and airline pilots.
Airline pilots use a checklist and get it right almost 100% of the time.

A UK parliamentary committee is currently looking at patient safety.

Do you know how many amateur pilots run out of fuel each year because they don't fill up ....?
[quote name='maggiemay' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:22 PM' post='766010']


I think we need to differentiate between surgeons and airline pilots.
Airline pilots use a checklist and get it right almost 100% of the time.

Sorry I hadn't viewed this thread earlier. This happened to my daughter in her violin exam Grade 1 - Trinity. She was asked to play a Grade 2 scale and challenged the examiner saying that she hadn't learnt it, although she did try the scale. She subsequently failed the exam.

After the exam, I thought perhaps she had been confused or misheard, but later, quite by chance, another pupil who shared lesson time with my daughter made a similar comment, and it was only by quizzing all the other students that we discovered that this examiner had, indeed, asked many of them to play scales not on their syllabuses. The pass rate for that series was very low.

I was infuriated - because my then 9 year old had been put in a position of having to challenge someone seemingly in authority, at an already very stressful time. Failing the exam was the nail in the coffin, and whilst she went on to do grade 2 - and passed with a very high mark, she has now given up. I wrote to the exam board, as did the teacher. We received a response saying that we could have a free resit, but in my view that wasn't the point. The point was that the examiner obviously needed retraining.

In my eyes, this is totally unacceptable. Children are nervous enough in exams. To have to question the examiner's judgement would have gone against everything my daughter thinks is right.

It will be interesting to see what response you get to your email.

Here we go again! I'm amazed that an examiner could do this for Grade 1, when there are only 2 minor scales required. Even the most confident candidate could be upset by this and I dread to think how it would affect young nervous ones doing their first exams.

If the examiner did realise his mistake, then it would be appalling that he didn't apologise as soon as possible after discovering it. Even examiners are human and liable to mistakes once in a while. To err is human; to forgive divine. However, the candidate cannot forgive unless the other party says they are sorry or words to that effect. It could throw a child dreadfully - especiallly if of a nervous disposition and who isn't nervous to some extent doing grade I?

An examiner once forgot to ask my daughter one section of the aural test during her violin exam. He had to call her back in a few minutes later when she was in informal conversation with the music staff at her school post morteming the exam. He did apologise and rightly so!

LR

I would e-mail the board (which is what I did) and describe what you think happened.

In my case it seems it was a mistake on the part of the pupil, and not that of the examiner. The board did follow it up and I was satisfied that their account is correct, as I talked it through with the pupil later. I would e-mail or phone and talk over your concerns - it is always possible of course that the examiner did make a mistake, and you will find they are helpful.

I am writing in defence of examiners - after having had an excellent one for my special needs pupils . He was SO SO clear in his instructions and remarks were accurate and to the point but at the same time very encouraging.
I agreee examiners can sometime get it wrong - but cant we all!!!

I always make sure that my pupils know that it is OK for them to question the examiner if they think they have been asked for something above their grade. I also make sure that they know exactly what they should be asked for. Examiners are human and make mistakes like the rest of us. When you consider the number of instruments and grades that they examine, all with different requirements, it would be surprising if they were perfect and this is what I tell my pupils. My cello teacher is an examiner of many years' experience, and I know that she keeps the exam requirements open in front of her while examining. Don't forget too that this is the first session for the new technical requirements for piano, so mistakes are more likely.

The correct action if the candidate comes out of the exam room with a complaint is to tell the steward, who will deal with the matter there and then by checking with the examiner immediately - there is always a short time while the examiner completes the mark sheet after the exam when what had just been done is fresh in his/her mind.

Certainly examiners shouldn't make this kind of mistake - but they are only human and do work long hours under pressure, sometimes having travelled a long way to get to a centre with little time to get themselves sorted out.

I think it's a good idea to warn pupils that mistakes can happen and teach them how to deal with it confidently and politely.

I know it's terribly easy for one wrong thing to upset a child in an exam - be it the candidate messing something up or the examiner making a mistake. I use an analogy which might be helpful. I ask them if they have ever watched ice-skating on television and if they remember what a skater does when they fall over. The answer is always"They get up and carry on". I try to get them to feel like that about things that might go wrong in a music exam.

I must admit that I've never thought of warning my students that the examiner might ask for something not required. I suppose I expect them to always get things right. Is this too much to ask? Most young students would not feel they could question an examiner. I do feel that it must be very worrying to be asked for a scale they haven't learned and could, in fact, cast a shadow over the whole exam experience.

This happened to my son at about Grade 4 - and I have to admit to laughing when he told me as I had no idea how he knew it was a wrong scale as he hadn't given sufficient practice to any of them. But we told the steward about it anyway and the mark for scales turned out to be a good bit higher than we'd expected!

I'm afraid this happens a lot. I have every admiration for examiners - it must be very tiring having to assess and write about a different person's performances every ten minutes or so, and then have the right scales, aural, etc to hand, and I don't blame them for occasionally getting muddled. This time one of my Grade 1 recorder pupils was asked for an A minor scale. (The girl apparently said "what's an A minor scale?" which made him check the syllabus.) But only two exams previously he had been testing a Grade 1 tenor horn who did have to do A minor.

I once had a grade 2 pupil who was given a grade 1 sight-reading test in the exam. She didn't say anything to the examiner and we don't know if he noticed or not - but she was extremely miffed when she got a low mark for it!

An examiner once tried to tell my son that one of his pieces wasn't on the list. I was in the room as I was accompanying so I was able to work out what was going on, and that he was looking at the wrong list, but if I'd not been there, say in a piano exam, my shy son would not have known what to do. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect examiners to get things right. They can, for example, use a list of scales just like everyone else.

I'm a bit surprised that some teachers think that we shouldn't expect examiners to get everything right. It's their job and a very important one.

Examiners are human and often have to examine lots of different instruments one after the other at different grades. I always tell my pupils I have taught them the right scales and if they ask for one they don't know to say 'I don't think that is Grade X clarinet scale'. It's not happened yet- but if they are prepared it'll help.
I also tell them if the examiner says something they don't understand to say 'I'm sorry, could you explain that again please?' or 'Not quite sure what that word means?' Yes, examiners should be able to use vocabulary that people of all ages understand- but sometimes they don't and I prefer to prepare my pupils for that.
Having said that- I had an examiner ask a Gr 1 pupil to tune to a note outside of the Grade 1 range- which threw him. To give the examiner his due, my candidate who was immediately before him, who was also doing Gr 1 had tuned to this harder note as she was only doing the exam for experience and was doing her Gr 2 the next term.
I wrote to the board immediately as it really threw this shy, stressy boy. His mark sheet came back typed but with no references to intonation!!!!! The board was great.... really helpful.

Joel just took his grade 6 on Sunday. He was asked for E minor during his scales - the examiner neglected to ask him f or p, tongued, slurred or staccato tongued, scale or arpeggio, harmonic or melodic. Joel patiently asked which of the options the examiner required one by one until he knew what he had to play, and it didn't bother him at all, but if something like that had happened when I was taking an exam, I would have been completely lost, as would most 9 year olds! The examiner was very nice to him though - at the end he told him well done, and he must never give up the clarinet - a good sign!

Burl

I would have been cheeky and just played it in the manner of my choosing Well, if I were feeling confident at that stage I might have done!