I've just taught 2 students who took their Prep Test last week. Both got wonderful reports, with very pleasing comments, and they said the examiner was really nice and friendly - and pretty!
I was surprised to hear that they were asked if they wanted to sing or play the notes in the 3rd listening test. Has anyone heard of this before?

From memory, I think all (or most of) the prep test books give you the option of playing, usually with some restriction, eg only three notes, only 1 string etc.

Have to say, with respect, I never fail to be dismayed reading posts from teachers who havn't taken the time to make themselves familiar with requirements set out for their pupil's examinations. The Board goes to great lengths to publish literature for our use and information. It's a bit of a hobby horse of mine - but how professional are you if you aren't prepared to educate yourself first. The options re. responses for this part of the Prep are clearly set out in the prep books.

How many of the teachers who use these forums have actually read the regulations booklet fully? How many are completely aware of all the changes regarding scales/sight reading for 2009 onwards? How many check their syllabus booklets each year...... how many actually HAVE a syllabus booklet for every instrument/grade they teach?

Not ranting - just feel for the candidate who is put into a position of self-doubt during a time when they are under enough pressure - their exam, prep or not.

I do consider myself to be professional and have been teaching and entering students for exams (very successfully) for a great many years.
I asked the question because I've never had an examiner ask if the candidate wanted to play or sing the 3 notes before. Every one of mine, over quite a few years, has been asked to sing the 3 notes.
And I don't consider you are commenting 'with respect' when you say things like 'how professional are you if you aren't prepared to educate yourself first'.

From my own experience with pupils in the prep test (and other grades) the examiner doesn't seem to ask if they'd like to sing or play the response - they often seem to just ask the candidate to sing and if the pupil hasn't got the will power, or confidence to say "I'd rather play it back" then they just have to go for it- I try and prepare everyone for both.

At least it helps develop their aural skills in both senses!

(peri-busy you were a bit harsh with your response btw!)

I seem to recall that in the past I have heard of some-one wanting to play back the response and not being offered the choice. Without exception my prep test candidates have sung back the response.

I had a little pupil a few years ago whose voice hadn't got to the stage of being able to pitch securely. We practised the 'playing back' option, and I went into the exam room with her at the start to say to the examiner "Emily prefers to play the notes rather than sing them". All was lovely and she did that.

I suspect singing is the usual option, which is why I briefed the examiner myself. If I hadn't been able to be there, I would have given her a note to give to the examiner at the start of the test.

I should perhaps add that although my students were surpised to be given the choice, it didn't worry them at all. They just said that they would sing.
And, as usual, it was a very enjoyable experience for both of them. They were both so pleased and proud of themselves. Not to mention their parents!

Worth adding that it is the same choice for the first test at grade 4 and 5. Although virtually all seem to do the singing, it is worth pointing out that the examiner will ask if they want to sing or play the test back. I know pupils of other teachers who have been a little surprised when given the playback option, particularly when they have been doing prac mus exams as well.

I think your last question speaks for itself Jenny.
The clear implication is that it's news to you.

Did you advise your candidates that this option would or could be offered by the examiner and encourage them to reply with the option chosen during your lessons? OR were they left with blank looks and thoughts of 'I don't remember doing that with my teacher'. Yes, all may well have gone well overall Jenny. Luckily they were able to cope. This time.

No slur of any kind is intended Jenny. Though I expected a backlash to any criticism - constructive or not, can be par for the course on the forums. Comments can only be interpreted by the reader as they see fit. Like I said, I simply find it frustrating that so many pupils are entered for exams, and sent in to take them having not been completely prepared by their teacher for all requirements - including the fore-knowledge of the options offered by the Board. Like you say, you have been teaching for many years. If a pupil is going to PLAY prep responses, is he/she then not tutored to advise the examiner of this, whether the option is offered verbally or not? Same goes for singing responses.

Did you tell them to expect this question?

If yes - a job well done. If not, .........

Really? It certainly sounds that way.

I am always very careful to prepare all students thoroughly for exams, whether it's Prep Test or graded exams and yes, I do read all the information offered to us by the Board.
Because I've never had a student asked whether they want to play or sing the responses in Prep Test, I did assume that this time would be the same. I told my students that these responses are usually sung. The fact that the examiner gave them the choice did not worry them at all.
My question was to try to find out if anyone has ever had a Prep Test exam where their students were offered the choice.

Really? Doesn't sound like it to me.

Yes, I agree absolutely that pupils should be thoroughly prepared and know exactly what to expect, but even the examiners make mistakes sometimes (see at least one current thread). If a slip-up was made, it was a pretty minor one and I don't think it deserves harsh criticism. Sorry.

it does seem pretty harsh to lay into Jenny for asking a question...! first negative comments towards a teacher I have seen on these forums...sad times.

We're only human...as Jenny said, they were non-plussed...so no harm done

Sad times! ....... Oh for heaven's sake, relax!
I stand by my comments - surprise, surprise.

Or should I also feel hurt because members criticise my point of view.

You wrote a post Jenny, inviting responses, yes? This is a discussion forum. I responded with my point. This point related to teacher preparation for their pupils - not aimed at you personally. However, from your last post, you NOW appear to be saying that your pupils were indeed not told that an option was available, simply that that they were usually sung. My point exactly Jenny.

Twice I have made assurances that this was not any type of personal attack and twice these have been rebuffed as unacceptable. This is your choice Jenny. It is also your choice to fuel discussion as personal. Any comments I have offered are made on a professional basis, from an outsider's point of view. I have 27 year's experience as a successful, fully qualified teacher and , at the risk of again being shot down, I know what I am talking about. I have read many, many comments on the forums from members who teach, which quite frankly amaze me - and not in a good way. Many, over time, are clearly unprepared, undereducated in their field and, frankly, wannabe's. There are others who clearly know what they are talking about.

I feel this thread has now matured into yet another one of those band-aid topics for bruised pride.

I wonder, in the future, will you be tempted to adjust your approach to preparation with candidates for this question?

[
I have read many, many comments on the forums from members who teach, which quite frankly amaze me - and not in a good way. Many, over time, are clearly unprepared, undereducated in their field and, frankly, wannabe's. There are others who clearly know what they are talking about.

[/quote]


So many "generalisations" made about teachers!! Not sure if I should feel flattered or not at my age to be described as a "wannabe"!!!!

By the sounds of it, peri busy is a very experienced and knowledgeable musician and teacher, and I am sure has made some very valid points.

Clearly this is a bit of a "hobby horse" for yours peri, and that is fine. We're all making comments on this forum on a "professional basis", and yes, if you post on here you need to accept that you may not always get the response you expected, or you may even open up a whole different debate. But that is why I find this forum so useful and interesting to follow.

However, it's often not what you say, but how you say it, and sometimes things need to be "wrapped up" or "softened" a bit... but the point will still get across... and no I am not trying to "band-aid" anything....I'm just a grumpy old man making a passing observation on an interesting thread.

It certainly comes across that way, though. Perhaps, if you genuinely don't want it to come across as a personal attack, you should take more care in the way you present it.

I have a lady friend who takes a 'no nonsense' approach to the trivial matters in life. She uses a phrase which sums things up very neatly.

'Oh, get over yourselves!!!!!'

She invariably follows this with a chest full of hearty laughter.

So...

Life's too short!

good for you with your 27 years experience - but i'm pretty sure that you didn't know everything to begin with. i hope you don't treat your beginners with this 'no nonsense' malarky!

Thank you twink.

You're correct, I didn't know everything then and can be sure I never will. Heaven save us from the person who thinks they do. I did, however, make sure that I was qualified, I did the job properly and I didn't skip any corners, just because I thought I could second guess the Board's examiners.

As for malarky as you put it, you have missed my point completely (though I am not surprised). That remark was aimed at the likes of you & co. who are ###### bent on defending Jenny's confessed omission (see 1st post!)- despite her own subsequent admission in a later post (albeit it was mooted in a rather diluted fashion).

By the way, just had a great day reading wonderful examiner's reports about my own Prep. crew, every one of which was fully prepared - for the whole test.

Do you not realise that the remarks aren't necessarily aimed at defending Jenny? Rather, they are aimed towards you in suggesting that you might develop slightly better manners when you disagree with others.

Now I'm rather lost for words!

What instrument were they doing the prep test for?

Oh yes Holz, and your angry face really made the point very sternly indeed

My lady friend and I, who both enjoy the free entertainment of listening to folk puff themselves up and patting themselves on the back for doing wonderful things (by the way, these folk invariably are the ones who jump on bandwaqgons when they trundle past) have been following this thread and our sides are now aching with laughter.... especially when we noticed Cambiata's post is now deleted!!!!!! (don't know why it was deleted - bit it made my pal howl and brought tears to her eyes).

Jenny, Jenny, Jenny, ...... what have you started?

You guys are too much.

I realised a long time ago that this 'teachers' ' forum can be a hotbed of discussion and that egos are regularly bruised. Some egos are mist thin! A glance through other threads on the forums will display several wincingly terrible actions by other teachers - but och sure the wee pets are only doing their best. I suppose at school it's equally acceptable really to send a pupil into a maths/languages/science etc. exam without teaching the full/correct syllabus or advising the pupil of his/her full options on the paper. Poor teacher just presumed the examiner might not ask or notice maybe. Naughty, naughty examiner!!!

I have not been rude - I have been exact in my observations and stated my point of view in response to Jenny's initial post.

I have also found it necessary and indeed appropriate to respond to those well-do-gooders among you (you know who you are) who have commented upon my own opinion. You are permitted to do so. At least have the good grace and, as you would term, manners, to be just as gracious.

May I suggest - with all due respect, of course! - that you and your lady friend might care to get out a little more?

I understand that evening classes are a popular diversion at this time of year. Do any of the subjects offered in such classes interest you? English, perhaps?

Cannot believe this thread.

It does appear to have got slightly, er, out of hand. One could humbly suggest that perhaps peri busy isn't quite busy enough...

None of you are busy enough!! Now lets calm down - tis the season of good will to all - and music teachers!

Have just read through this myself and, well...... erm....

And people say the cafe is what causes the problems around here.

This is more like it! Relaxed posts.

Thank you to those of you who have sent PM 's of support.

Happy Christmas!

hahaha - brilliant!

Ever wished you REALLY hadn't started a thread??