kat the cobbler
Dec 3 2008, 06:25 PM
Don't know whether I'm looking for advice or just someone to rant at.
I've completely lost the confidence on the flute that I have built up over the past two years. My tutor at uni this year has managed to make me feel rubbish and criticising everything I do. She had me playing grade 1 and 2 pieces the other week and generally criticises my tone, tuning and breathing.
Today we were doing some improvisation (which I love doing) and rather than praising me she said she was shocked.
I'm in my last year of my degree and my major project is about improving my flute techniques but I really don't feel like doing anything anymore because I just feel like whatever I do is going to be wrong. She told me that I shouldn't put in my proposal for my project that I wanted to work towards grade 7 and 8 pieces because I wasn't good enough and would get marked down.
Just don't know what to do now.
BerkshireMum
Dec 3 2008, 06:49 PM
I'm sorry to hear that your confidence has taken a knock, Kat. All teachers criticise their pupil's playing - that's why they are there - but most manage to do it in such a way that the pupil feels he is improving. I wonder whether your tutor realises the result of her negative criticism?
There will be faults with your tone, tuning and breathing even when you reach grade 8 standard, so don't expect to be perfect! Does your tutor give you helpful suggestions for improvement? If not, try asking her for some exercises which might improve one aspect of your playing. Whatever you do, don't try to tackle more than one aspect at a time - maybe spend a month on each in turn, so that by the end of February all three aspects show some improvement.
Don't give up! If your tutor feels you aren't yet ready for grade 7 pieces, you could try putting grade 6 in your project. If previous tutors have told you grade 7 was a possibility, why not discuss your position with one of them?
kat the cobbler
Dec 3 2008, 07:22 PM
I was playing Grade 7 pieces with no problem throughout last year for my HND and getting good grades (all my instrumental skills assignments were B+). She's just made me feel so down because i feel like I'm going backwards instead of forwards and this project is worth 50% of this year.
notmusimum
Dec 3 2008, 08:03 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Dec 3 2008, 07:22 PM)

I was playing Grade 7 pieces with no problem throughout last year for my HND and getting good grades (all my instrumental skills assignments were B+). She's just made me feel so down because i feel like I'm going backwards instead of forwards and this project is worth 50% of this year.
Can you get a consultation lesson with a really good Flute Teacher? At least that way any real problems could be identified and you'd be given strategies tp deal with them.
Teachers who attempt to do it by always telling students how bad they are really make my blood boil as in the end they only do damage.
A.U.K
Dec 3 2008, 08:17 PM
I don't know if I am going to go off on completely the wrong track so excuse my musings..
As posted earlier teachers are there to criticise our playing and to break down where we are going wrong..however...it is all well criticising a pupil but once they have disassembled what we are doing surely they have to offer ideas and suggestions on how to improve the situation. Simply pulling someones playing apart an not offering constructive advice on how to correct or improve the playing sounds a little unhelpful. You were obviously good enough at the audition so why now the hopeless situation now...?
I would seek an appontment with the professor and ask explain that you feel defeated by their teaching method and that you are rapdly losing the desire to play at all...surely this is not what they are hoping for from any student. I would ask your teacher what they propose to do to help you with whatever problems they precieve you are having with your playing...You have been playing for 18 years so its not like you don't know your way around a flute. If they cannot offer a sensible structured approach to improve the situation then I would ask for a different professor...A great friend of mine was so appalled by her teacher at Trinity that she fought the board and got sent to the Academy to see a teacher there instead...the relationship between her and the proffesor at Trinity was so bad that she simply refused to attend her lessons until something was done about it.
Secondly I would seek an appointment with your head of year or studies and discuss this problem with them...you surprisingly may not be the only one experiencing this trouble and the problem may lie with the teacher and not the student...if you are not alone in your complaint then take it further and ask for a replacement teacher/professor..they are duty bound to supply you with a teacher of suitable calibre and talent/ability to be able to teach people...if your teacher cannot teach you to improve then there is a problem and maybe a new teacher is the answer. Your teacher won't like it but they may pull their finger out and get their ideas in order if they are summoned to the head of years office...personally I wouldnt think that a teacher would be helpful after being summond so it may well be best to ask for another professor.
Possibly accept the fact that you are not working as hard as you need to...you have years of playing behind you so break it down and go over old music that you have played successfully in the past...take a whole new program of music to the teacher that they have not heard you play before but stuff you are very familiar with...let them hear you shine out...
I don't know what else to suggest but I do wish you luck and hope you can rectify this issue..don't get down trodden or bullied by a teacher they are there to help you not destroy you...if they can't do that the maybe teaching is not for them...
Regards
Andrew
kat the cobbler
Dec 3 2008, 08:40 PM
Unfortunately my course leader, and personal tutor is the same tutor who has done this. There's only two tutors on the course and they're a nightmare. Everyone's having problems with them. I'm more frustrated that the confidence i'd built up over the last two years and enthusiasm I had found in playing again has been destroyed in one term.
A.U.K
Dec 3 2008, 08:44 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Dec 3 2008, 08:40 PM)

Unfortunately my course leader, and personal tutor is the same tutor who has done this. There's only two tutors on the course and they're a nightmare. Everyone's having problems with them. I'm more frustrated that the confidence i'd built up over the last two years and enthusiasm I had found in playing again has been destroyed in one term.
Then take it to the principal...it sounds ghastly but you don't have to accept this...If the teacher cannot teach and they are not answerable to a head of year then you must see the Principal. Also go and see an excellent flute teacher for an opinion...explain your dilema and see what they have to say...
I strongly suspect that the issue is not with you but the teacher...
all ears
Dec 4 2008, 01:44 AM
Andrew's advice sounds spot on, but I really like notmusimum's idea of paying for a consultation lesson with another respected teacher. Maybe mention specific areas you'd like input on, such as tone, phrasing, etc.
At the same time, I think that with flute you do sometimes want to reinvent yourself and develop a totally different tone, and IF you gained the most amazing tone through going back to Grade 1 level and clawing your way back up, it would be so worthwhile.
Also, working hard on basics as an adult makes you very conscious of what you are doing. I didn't get a tone on the flute that I liked until I was much older than you are (and I haven't been practicing recently either, so I'm sure I've lost it again

), but I could describe my "new" embouchure etc. much better than the old one! So I'm sure the experience will make you a better teacher in future.
Have you read any of the (famous, highly regarded) books on flute technique? I'll leave it to somebody else to make recommendations, but reading up on technique when you have a particular goal in mind can be very useful.
Phrasing - is it your understanding of music that your tutor is complaining about, or is your breath support forcing you to take breaths in awkward places? If so, take a look at kerioboe and rosfrog's thread on singing, whistling etc., and also try the "cool breath" thing.
Also consider general relaxation - I swear one reason why I was never satisfied with my tone when I was a teenager was because I was terrified of my stand partner in school orchestra, and not a little nervous of my teacher!!
Your sig says you've never done any grade exams...have you maybe had the same teacher almost all your life? No excuse for your uni tutor failing to build you up rather than tear you down, but maybe the shock has been more severe if you haven't had opportunities for outside assessment of your playing in the past.
kat the cobbler
Dec 4 2008, 08:04 AM
No. The reason I've never done any grades is because I've never been that interested in doing them.
I've struggled to find a teacher for a while because I'm at a higher standard and also because I'm stuggling for money at the moment. My friend on my course is having the same problem with the same tutor. She's doing a similar thing for her major project but singing instead and basically is telling her completely the opposite to what her singing teacher is telling her.
all ears
Dec 4 2008, 08:10 AM
Hi, didn't mean to denigrate your achievements to date, was rather hoping to encourage you to get something for yourself out of an unenviable situation. Do hope you manage to get problems resolved.
rosflute
Dec 4 2008, 08:30 AM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Dec 3 2008, 06:25 PM)

Don't know whether I'm looking for advice or just someone to rant at.
I've completely lost the confidence on the flute that I have built up over the past two years. My tutor at uni this year has managed to make me feel rubbish and criticising everything I do. She had me playing grade 1 and 2 pieces the other week and generally criticises my tone, tuning and breathing.
Today we were doing some improvisation (which I love doing) and rather than praising me she said she was shocked.
I'm in my last year of my degree and my major project is about improving my flute techniques but I really don't feel like doing anything anymore because I just feel like whatever I do is going to be wrong. She told me that I shouldn't put in my proposal for my project that I wanted to work towards grade 7 and 8 pieces because I wasn't good enough and would get marked down.
Just don't know what to do now.
It's a shame that you feel like this - but I think that most of us have had this feeling! You get grade 8 then you go to a higher level teacher and they make you re-appraise your technique (After my grade 8 distinction, Sebastian Bell made me spend 3 weeks JUST practising on my headjoint!):
But look at it this way: You are taking lessons so you want to improve, don't you? and if she didn't think you could do any better she wouldn't be asking anything of you.
Either you feel depleted because you have not received the praise you hoped for. Or you accept that this is for future benefits and accept her helping hand and work hard to go forward!
kat the cobbler
Dec 4 2008, 09:52 AM
This is not a flute teacher. This is coming from my university tutor. I know I can be a lot better than I am and I'm working towards that but to be told that I won't get to that level makes me feel that I shouldn't bother because she's going to mark me down whatever I do.
Teigr
Dec 4 2008, 11:39 AM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Dec 4 2008, 09:52 AM)

This is not a flute teacher. This is coming from my university tutor. I know I can be a lot better than I am and I'm working towards that but to be told that I won't get to that level makes me feel that I shouldn't bother because she's going to mark me down whatever I do.
She probably won't mark you down whatever you do. I remember you had similar concerns about a different tutor last year, but it sounds like that all worked out OK in the end - changing from "will never mark me higher than a B-" to "all my instrumental skills assignments were B+".
If she thinks you've set yourself goals that are unrealistic and wants you to revise them it's likely to be because she wants to give you the best chance to get a high mark. If she wanted to mark you down, it would be easy for her to let you set higher targets so that you'd lose marks for failing to reach them. Sounds to me like she's doing the opposite - trying to get you to set things up so you'll meet your targets and get a good mark.
The rationale for having you play low grade pieces is almost certainly to allow you to focus on elements such as tone and breathing without having to worry about finding your way around the notes.
My teacher uses lower grade material with me to work on my weak points too. It's not meant to be discouraging. It's just a way of freeing up your attention so you can direct all of it to the element you want to improve.
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Feb 14 2008, 10:51 AM)

Hi
I wonder if anyone can help me. I've got my performance assignment today at uni and I think I'm going to chose a piece from the 76 graded peices for flute book 2 (number 61 or number 63). Does anyone know which grade these pieces (roughly).
It won't make that much difference becuase I could tell my tutor they were grade 8 and he wouldn't know (he's a guitar player and will never mark me higher than a B- becuase he doesn't understand the instrument or how difficult pieces are.
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Feb 21 2008, 06:21 PM)

I played no 61 in the end. I love that piece.
I don't know whether he accepted it on the level of difficulty. To be honest this year I'm just relieved that he lets me play classical pieces. Last year he wouldn't let me at all because it was "what I was used to" and kept given me random pieces out of the fake book that I found really easy and tedious. He now lets me play one classical piece and one Jazz piece with improvisation so I choose whatever classical piece and I bought the I Got Rhythm and It Don't Mean A Thing books (both of which are for grades 4 - 6 so I'm still not really challenging myself).
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Dec 3 2008, 07:22 PM)

I was playing Grade 7 pieces with no problem throughout last year for my HND and getting good grades (all my instrumental skills assignments were B+). She's just made me feel so down because i feel like I'm going backwards instead of forwards and this project is worth 50% of this year.
notmusimum
Dec 4 2008, 12:06 PM
Does the tutor know that you are finding her words hurtful?
I think it's all very well to suggest people improve and point out areas of their playing where that needs to happen. I agree that goes with the territory on flute and other instruments too. This can be very valuable long term and help you to become a better player. I know my daughter finds it frustrating when it doesn't happen.
I think when a person starts to claim that you will never be any better than A or B this makes people uncomfortable, they think it will give them the incentive to work harder but in the end they will only become discouraged. I know a dance teacher who did this and ended up loosing most of her students on mass (definately the ones she wanted to see go).
My daughter was very lucky to get the chance to participate in a masterclass at RNCM recently. It's quite scary for someone who learns through the local music service to stand up alongside and play in such a respected environment, to a teacher they have never met before. I can honestly say this has to be one of the best experiences she's had and in that very public half hour she learnt more about playing Flute, improving technique, posture etc than she could have hoped for. She came away filled with confidence and pride, not once was she made to feel any different than the other students who were all from RNCM (not Juniors). This to me is a very good teacher and judging by the number of students trying to organise lessons at the end I'm not the only one who thought this way.
kat the cobbler
Dec 4 2008, 06:55 PM
Last year was a bit different. The tutor I had didn't have a clue about classical music at all. He was predominantly a jazz musician so any classical stuff I played he didn't know whether it was easy or difficult.
One thing I did wonder (not because i'm fishing for compliments to make me feel better) but is there anywhere (other than youtube) where I can upload recordings or videos where people can comment on my tone and technique so I can actually find out properly what I need to work on.
rosflute
Dec 4 2008, 10:17 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Dec 4 2008, 06:55 PM)

Last year was a bit different. The tutor I had didn't have a clue about classical music at all. He was predominantly a jazz musician so any classical stuff I played he didn't know whether it was easy or difficult.
One thing I did wonder (not because i'm fishing for compliments to make me feel better) but is there anywhere (other than youtube) where I can upload recordings or videos where people can comment on my tone and technique so I can actually find out properly what I need to work on.
Have you got skype?
I'll take a look, if you have
kat the cobbler
Dec 5 2008, 09:23 AM
I don't I'm afraid. I'm having to video peices and practicing for my major project anyway so I have lots of video clips.
all ears
Dec 5 2008, 12:01 PM
You could still post them on youtube, with comments turned OFF, and send the youtube link via PM to those people you'd like comments from.
notmusimum
Dec 5 2008, 12:19 PM
QUOTE(all ears @ Dec 5 2008, 12:01 PM)

You could still post them on youtube, with comments turned OFF, and send the youtube link via PM to those people you'd like comments from.
That's something I was wondering about. I know to post a link here you can't make them private (just for those people you want to see them) but maybe it is possible to do so via PM.
Somehting that amazes me about youtube is that many more people are kinder about the videos than nasty.
Stephie
Dec 5 2008, 04:38 PM
To be completely honest, I don't think she knows what she's talking about - if you've been playing flute for 18 YEARS then you should NOT be doing grade 1/2 pieces. Change teachers - can you do that?
kat the cobbler
Dec 5 2008, 07:57 PM
Unfortunately not because she's our module tutor.
I've been working through the trevor wye practice books and even in there he says to practice things that you can't play and not just play things that you know you can play.
Seabiscuit
Dec 6 2008, 05:11 PM
I've only read through your posts quickly, I just thought I'd lend my support. I have also been playing the flute for a very long time and progressed to quite a high standard whilst still at school. However when I went to uni and auditioned for the uni orchestra, the music teacher running the audition made me feel very small and damaged my confidence so much that I didn't really play much again for the next 10 or so years...until this year when I joined a local flute choir, run by a very good local flute teacher. So I know what it is like to lose confidence first hand.
I would say either stop going to this tutor for lessons (is this possible?) and continue yourself using study books, and/or try and find someone else to help you. Even if it is joining a flute choir or somewhere with other flautists where you can swap ideas. Lessons on technique are great yes, but I have always found experience in different ensembles/playing arenas much better for flute playing development.
Good luck
rosflute
Dec 7 2008, 09:56 AM
QUOTE(Seabiscuit @ Dec 6 2008, 05:11 PM)

I've only read through your posts quickly, I just thought I'd lend my support. I have also been playing the flute for a very long time and progressed to quite a high standard whilst still at school. However when I went to uni and auditioned for the uni orchestra, the music teacher running the audition made me feel very small and damaged my confidence so much that I didn't really play much again for the next 10 or so years...until this year when I joined a local flute choir, run by a very good local flute teacher. So I know what it is like to lose confidence first hand.
I would say either stop going to this tutor for lessons (is this possible?) and continue yourself using study books, and/or try and find someone else to help you. Even if it is joining a flute choir or somewhere with other flautists where you can swap ideas. Lessons on technique are great yes, but I have always found experience in different ensembles/playing arenas much better for flute playing development.
Good luck
Wouldn't it be better to discuss your feelings of despondency with the teacher first? Teachers are not mind readers and can be completely unaware (despite best efforts) of a student's thoughts if they are not told.
Indeed it can be disheartening when someone suggests that you are not as good as you think you are and makes you work slowly and carefully to improve. But, as I say to my students:
Coming to a lesson is like going to the doctor - you go because you want to get better. So, the doctor has to find out what is wrong with you and give you the daily medicine [technical practice]to make you better. Telling you how well you are has only limited value if something is wrong!
notmusimum
Dec 7 2008, 12:04 PM
QUOTE(rosflute @ Dec 7 2008, 09:56 AM)

Wouldn't it be better to discuss your feelings of despondency with the teacher first? Teachers are not mind readers and can be completely unaware (despite best efforts) of a student's thoughts if they are not told.
Indeed it can be disheartening when someone suggests that you are not as good as you think you are and makes you work slowly and carefully to improve. But, as I say to my students:
Coming to a lesson is like going to the doctor - you go because you want to get better. So, the doctor has to find out what is wrong with you and give you the daily medicine [technical practice]to make you better. Telling you how well you are has only limited value if something is wrong!
I totally agree that having lessons is all about improving and pointing out areas of concern is what it should be about. I'd be first ot say that some of my daughter's teachers could do lots more on this front. On the other hand the one that does this loads always handles it in such a way that it comes across as moving forward positively. I don't think daughter realises half the time and she always takes on board his advice. The huge benefit is it's improved her playing. this to me is the sign of a good teacher.
Making someone feel they are rubbish, which some people deliberately employ, to push the student isn't the way to go in most cases. They may get some improvement but it's usually at the expense of the persons confidence and short lived (we've been there with a dance teacher).
I'm all for telling the teacher how she is making you feel but this won't do any good if that's her game plan.
Good luck and remember you are probaly loads better than she's suggesting.
Misti
Dec 7 2008, 12:58 PM
I'd be inclined to start showing my emotions and feelings. And if that meant walking ot of a lesson with the comment "I don't feel your remarks are appropriate, and I'm now not in a suitable frame of mind to continue with this lesson. I'll be in touch when I feel calmer." I'd do it.
It might not seem very mature, but it makes it blindly obvious to the teacher/lecturer that something is seriously wrong. If you can then initiate a meeting to sit down and discuss a way forward, then it can help to resolve dissolving working relationships.
Alternatively, if you feel able, you could try and be more assertive and take control of your lessons. Challenge your teacher to explain what they think you can gain from each exercise. Make use of your flute expertise and reading, to point out why you don't think plodding through G1 pieces is a productive use of your lesson time. Perhaps take along your own material (such a the Trevor Wye technique books) and say "I'd like to work on this exercise today, because xyz".
I know its difficult to be assertive, but it sounds like you're quietly letting this teacher walk all over your confidence. Perhaps its time to show that you have your own initiative: And that know more about flute playing that they do! (By they way, what is the tutor's specialism?)
Good luck.
notmusimum
Dec 7 2008, 03:27 PM

Storming off is a bit drastic but it might be just what's needed.
Kenny
Dec 18 2008, 02:59 AM
QUOTE(tamsin @ Dec 7 2008, 12:58 PM)

I'd be inclined to start showing my emotions and feelings. And if that meant walking ot of a lesson with the comment "I don't feel your remarks are appropriate, and I'm now not in a suitable frame of mind to continue with this lesson. I'll be in touch when I feel calmer." I'd do it.
It might not seem very mature, but it makes it blindly obvious to the teacher/lecturer that something is seriously wrong. If you can then initiate a meeting to sit down and discuss a way forward, then it can help to resolve dissolving working relationships.
Alternatively, if you feel able, you could try and be more assertive and take control of your lessons. Challenge your teacher to explain what they think you can gain from each exercise. Make use of your flute expertise and reading, to point out why you don't think plodding through G1 pieces is a productive use of your lesson time. Perhaps take along your own material (such a the Trevor Wye technique books) and say "I'd like to work on this exercise today, because xyz".
I know its difficult to be assertive, but it sounds like you're quietly letting this teacher walk all over your confidence. Perhaps its time to show that you have your own initiative: And that know more about flute playing that they do! (By they way, what is the tutor's specialism?)
Good luck.
That's something that I would do... Haha... but to say.. I played clarinet for only 5 years, and i'm applying uni for the next year... I've run through many "scolds" by my tutor or my band instructor... sometimes my band instructor even scold me rubbish... since I'm the only person who achieves grade8... but sometimes I think that they even gave us opportunity to realize our problems and a chance to fix it out.. for example my tutor stopped my solo and said, u played like a begginner... and I asked whats the problem with my solo, he says that my A and B's pitch is abit off (where most clarinettist will find this problem, since it's the instrument's problem), so I've take 3 days to think and fix this problem, until on the performing day I've done well, atleast I thinked that I've inproved. So why give up while ur tutor "bangs" you? Do your best and let her see what you have, and prove that the 18 years of practice isn't just a waste.
kat the cobbler
Jan 11 2009, 06:02 PM
I thought I'd resurect this as I'm about to go back to uni on Wednesday (and I'm dreading it). I've been really bad and not touched my flute since I broke up 4 weeks ago. I'm hoping by doing that I might be able to get myself back in order in the next few days before I go back.
I've just been watching over my videos from my practice that me and my friend did before christmas and playing wise I can see where I need to improve. My posture is awful (though I think this is mainly because by then I was so fed up that I didn't care anymore). My tone is good when I'm confident in what I am playing. I played four pieces. Two for fun (Oh Holy Night and Fairytale of New York) basically to show that my tone can be good and two that I'm working on (Bach Andante from the grade 7 book and one of the Telemann fantasies). Both of these need work on but I know with the Bach I can play it much better than I did that day.
I've got the Trevor Wye books now and will look through those.
My main problem is confidence but I don't think my University tutor is going to help with this at all. I did think about having a few trial lessons with different teachers to see what they think I need to work on but I don't want to then feel pressured into starting lessons with them because I just cannot afford it at the moment.
Oh well I'll get there in the end I think
notmusimum
Jan 11 2009, 11:03 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 11 2009, 06:02 PM)

My main problem is confidence but I don't think my University tutor is going to help with this at all. I did think about having a few trial lessons with different teachers to see what they think I need to work on but I don't want to then feel pressured into starting lessons with them because I just cannot afford it at the moment.
Oh well I'll get there in the end I think
I think your biggest problem is the University Tutor. I think you should get a consultation lesson with someone else, even if it's a one off or on some adhoc basis. I'm sure they would understand and point you in the right direction if you explain the situation.
I feel for you as the situation can't be easy. Just remember you can't be as bad as the tutor is making out or you wouldn't have been accepted for the course in the first place.
Good luck
kat the cobbler
Jan 12 2009, 11:03 AM
I've put my videos from before christmas up on youtube. If you watch the videos you can tell my confidence is low because my posture is awful.
If you want to see them give me a shout and I'll PM them to you. Outside comments might help with my assignment.
skylark
Jan 12 2009, 02:12 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Dec 3 2008, 08:40 PM)

I'm more frustrated that the confidence i'd built up over the last two years and enthusiasm I had found in playing again has been destroyed in one term.
Confidence is such a big part of playing - it affects your posture, breathing, tone, motivation, your ability to learn and progress... so many things. Is this teacher doing you more harm than good by destroying your confidence? If so, it might be better to give up lessons temporarily rather than continue in this downward spiral
QUOTE(Teigr @ Dec 4 2008, 11:39 AM)

The rationale for having you play low grade pieces is almost certainly to allow you to focus on elements such as tone and breathing without having to worry about finding your way around the notes.
My teacher uses lower grade material with me to work on my weak points too. It's not meant to be discouraging. It's just a way of freeing up your attention so you can direct all of it to the element you want to improve.
This is a valid point - it's what my teacher has been doing with me to improve my tone and various other things. However, the way in which she does it has been very positive and encouraging.
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 11 2009, 06:02 PM)

My main problem is confidence but I don't think my University tutor is going to help with this at all. I did think about having a few trial lessons with different teachers to see what they think I need to work on but I don't want to then feel pressured into starting lessons with them because I just cannot afford it at the moment.
As long as you explain at the outset that you would just like a single consultation for advice, then if that's the basis on which they agree to see you, there shouldn't be any pressure to continue with them for lessons. It does sound like the best way of proceeding, and it might help you get your confidence back.
QUOTE(A.U.K @ Dec 3 2008, 08:17 PM)

..don't get down trodden or bullied by a teacher they are there to help you not destroy you...if they can't do that the maybe teaching is not for them...
A lot of people abuse what power they have (in any work environment) in order to feed their own egos at the expense of other people's confidence. If you must stay with this teacher, try to see that *she* is the one with the problem, not you. I agree with what someone said earlier, about speaking up if you are not happy with the way she talks to you. I wouldn't walk out though as that could give her cause to misinterpret your action to other people and put you in the wrong.
I hope there are other things happening for you on your return to University which give you joy and pleasure to offset the unpleasantness of this situation. Try not to let it affect the rest of your studies, and I hope you can find a band to play with so that you can start getting some enjoyment out of your flute again and offset the intenseness of the situation with your teacher
kat the cobbler
Jan 12 2009, 02:54 PM
Unfortunately it's not an instrumental teacher. I stopped have flute lessons a while back because I found it really hard to juggle work with lessons. however, I managed to get through my HND without them and even found myself improving. Having said that in the one term I've been doing this course I feel all my hard work over the two years of my HND has been destroyed!!
skylark
Jan 12 2009, 03:10 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 12 2009, 02:54 PM)

Unfortunately it's not an instrumental teacher. I stopped have flute lessons a while back because I found it really hard to juggle work with lessons.
Ah, I see.... then do think again about having a session with one or two professional flute teachers who'll be able to assess you more accurately. I know it might cost up to around £30 each maybe, but in the long term, it sounds as if it will be money well spent.
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 12 2009, 02:54 PM)

in the one term I've been doing this course I feel all my hard work over the two years of my HND has been destroyed!!
No teacher should make a student feel this way but it's difficult to advise what to do - have you got a student mentor you could talk to?
kat the cobbler
Jan 12 2009, 03:15 PM
We have a personal tutor assigned. Unfortunately mine is the tutor I have the issue with. She's also course leader and even when we've been to the head of department in the past he's just put it down to her not always understanding what we mean (she's german - although she's been in this country for long enough as she taught my friend on the same course 10 years ago!!!).
I've been looking at the university website this morning and we don't even have a grievance procedure type thing.
kat the cobbler
Jan 16 2009, 12:19 PM
A little update. I didn't go back to uni this week. I've spent the week reflecting on what I need to do. I've got an appointment with one of my tutors (not the one I have a problem with) on Wednesday so hopefully I'll be able to get some issues solved then.
I've heard from the local nursing home who want me to do some performances for their day centre so I'm just waiting for the coordinator to get back to me to make some arrangements.
I'm going to take some time tomorrow to just play some random pieces and exercises on my flute just to get me back playing again!!
Hopefully this will be a turning point!!
skylark
Jan 16 2009, 12:22 PM
That sounds like a really good way forward - best of luck for a successful outcome
kat the cobbler
Jan 16 2009, 02:27 PM
I'll keep you informed and I'll let you know how I get on dusting the cobwebs from my flute!!
Flossie
Jan 16 2009, 06:14 PM
Hi Kat,
Hope you have a constructive meeting.
As I’m sure you are aware, this kind of meeting can be quite tricky. I’d recommend writing down beforehand the key points you want to talk about – that way you can hopefully help ensure that the meeting follows your agenda and covers your concerns. It is helpful if you have a clear idea of the problems (which it sounds like you do), and also of desired outcomes and possible solutions. For this initial meeting, I’d also recommend being honest about how the situation is making you feel and what your concerns are, but make sure that you don’t come across as being aggressive or petulant - and be prepared to consider things which you might be able to do differently rather than simply ‘blaming’ the tutor for everything. The tutor you discuss things with is more likely to be supportive if s/he thinks you’re being reasonable and are dealing with the situation in a mature and rational manner (and I'm not meaning to imply that you aren't!).
A couple of other things I’ve wondered about from reading the thread:
1) Are you and the tutor after the same kind of flute ‘sound’? In my experience, some people like flutes to sound rich and mellow and some like them to have a very bright sound (and this divide seems particularly common among non-flute players). The ideal is obviously to be able to get both types of sound, especially if you are working on the classical repertoire, but a lot of beginner/upgrade instruments only seem to do one well. My old Pearl 661 did not do ‘bright’ even when played by my teacher, who is a professional flautist, and I have a couple of friends who have basic Yamaha or Trevor James flutes which do not do a really rich, mellow or ‘thick’ sound even with vibrato. You and the tutor may be trying to achieve different things!
2) When was your flute last serviced? Flutes play better when they are in good condition and if it’s a long time since your flute was serviced then it may have developed faults which aren’t immediately noticeable (i.e. the instrument still ‘plays’) but which affect things like tone quality – especially if you are finding that there are some notes (apart from top F sharp) which consistently do not play as well as they used to.
Good luck with it!
notmusimum
Jan 16 2009, 07:51 PM
Hi Kat
I really hope that you can get things sorted on this one. Don't take the fact that she's German as an excuse for the way you've been behaved towards. It sounds like the tutor just isn't a people person.
Tread carefully with the tutor at the interview. Good advice to organise what you want to say and make every effort to appear reasonable.
Good luck, really hope it works out.
kat the cobbler
Jan 17 2009, 08:25 AM
QUOTE(Flossie @ Jan 16 2009, 06:14 PM)

A couple of other things I’ve wondered about from reading the thread:
1) Are you and the tutor after the same kind of flute ‘sound’? In my experience, some people like flutes to sound rich and mellow and some like them to have a very bright sound (and this divide seems particularly common among non-flute players). The ideal is obviously to be able to get both types of sound, especially if you are working on the classical repertoire, but a lot of beginner/upgrade instruments only seem to do one well. My old Pearl 661 did not do ‘bright’ even when played by my teacher, who is a professional flautist, and I have a couple of friends who have basic Yamaha or Trevor James flutes which do not do a really rich, mellow or ‘thick’ sound even with vibrato. You and the tutor may be trying to achieve different things!
This was one thing I was thinking about. A lot of the stuff I want to play (which originaly I was told I couldn't and then I was told I could and now I haven't got a clue) was jazz and blues stuff. So rich tones doesn't alway suit it anyway.
QUOTE(Flossie @ Jan 16 2009, 06:14 PM)

2) When was your flute last serviced? Flutes play better when they are in good condition and if it’s a long time since your flute was serviced then it may have developed faults which aren’t immediately noticeable (i.e. the instrument still ‘plays’) but which affect things like tone quality – especially if you are finding that there are some notes (apart from top F sharp) which consistently do not play as well as they used to.
Another issue that has come up (and she decided it was just an excuse for my poor playing). My flute needs repadding and needs a service. However, I'm waiting to go shopping for a new flute because the amount I have been quoted to have my current flute serviced and repadded is twice as much as I paid for the flute originally. The tone on my flute has always been quite dull. Even when I first had it. I never had the problem with my old flute and sometimes I wish I had actually kept that one. The lower octave is the worse. I also have extreme tuning issues with it. I have to have the head joint pulled quite a way out to keep it in tune. (you can understand why I want a new one can't you).
Flossie
Jan 17 2009, 08:16 PM
Hi Kat,
Do you have any friends who play flute and would be happy for you to try their instrument? This might give you an idea of how your instrument is affecting your playing. You are used to your own flute and how it plays (and flutes vary an awful lot) so, all things being equal, your playing should be better on your own flute. If you sound the same or better on a different flute which has an equivalent specification (e.g. both silver head) then this would suggest that your flute is not the best one for you.
I changed flutes in the summer after my teacher told me I wouldn't be able to get any further on the one I had - and I didn't realise how much my instrument was restricting my playing until I started trying other flutes. But, I obviously can't guarantee that this would be the same for you...
If you do go flute hunting at any point then it's worth trying as many instruments as possible (this may well mean a trip to London) and try to get your favourite ones on approval so that you can try them out in different acoustics and get second/third opinions on how they sound. I found that a couple of the flutes I tried and liked in the shop sounded very different in the rooms I regularly play in, and I ended up buying the one which had been my third choice in the shop because it was actually the one that sounded best in the environments I usually play in.
Hope your meeting goes well.
kat the cobbler
Jan 18 2009, 10:54 AM
I borrowed my friends Yamaha 311 last year while mine was having a key repaired. I didn't like it at all (but then I've never got on with yamaha's). I also played my tutors flute (can't remember what it was) and I thought my playing was much better on that.
I'm hoping to go down to london in a few weeks time to try out some new flutes. Even if only to get an idea of what sounds better.
barry-clari
Jan 18 2009, 10:56 AM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 18 2009, 10:54 AM)

I'm hoping to go down to london in a few weeks time to try out some new flutes. Even if only to get an idea of what sounds better.
I think that'd be a good idea, and if you can take someone else with you to listen to you play and give a second opinion, that'd be even better.
Flossie
Jan 18 2009, 06:33 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 18 2009, 10:54 AM)

I borrowed my friends Yamaha 311 last year while mine was having a key repaired. I didn't like it at all (but then I've never got on with yamaha's). I also played my tutors flute (can't remember what it was) and I thought my playing was much better on that.
I'm hoping to go down to london in a few weeks time to try out some new flutes. Even if only to get an idea of what sounds better.
Going to London to try flutes is a good plan.
Yamaha flutes seem to be a love-hate thing. I've never got on with them, but some people think they are wonderful and would never play anything else. My old Pearl was similarly divisive - I loved it (until I wore the mechanism out and it stopped playing well!) and some people hated playing it.
My teacher wrote some helpful guidance for flute hunting which she would be happy for me to pass on (I have checked!). Let me know if it would be helpful.
kat the cobbler
Jan 21 2009, 04:06 PM
I've decided my tutor has completely lost the plot.
I went back to uni today. After all three of us in the lesson arguing with our tutor (this is the one I have problems with) she told us that she hated us and that we are the worst class she's ever taught. It's only because we question things that she says and she doesn't like it.
Well anyway, after her telling me last term that I need to go back to basics for my flute playing she's now decided that for my next assignment I should play.....wait for it.......Syrinx!!!
I've told her that I'm not doing it because I hate the peice and I'm not stressing myself over a piece that I know I will struggle to play. I said I will find two pieces that are of a similar standard. She wants me to find a piece that will improve my timbre!!
skylark
Jan 21 2009, 05:12 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 21 2009, 04:06 PM)

I went back to uni today. After all three of us in the lesson arguing with our tutor (this is the one I have problems with) she told us that she hated us and that we are the worst class she's ever taught. It's only because we question things that she says and she doesn't like it.
As the senior person, it is up to her to take the initiative to forge a workable relationship with her students. She may find some students more difficult to relate to than others, but becoming hostile with them is immature and unprofessional. It's likely to lead to a spiralling cycle of hostility, and it's difficult to see how she could expect anything else. It sounds as if she hasn't (yet?) acquired to skills to deal with situations which she finds challenging.
Maybe the way towards getting your confidence back is to not get drawn into this cycle of hostility and for you to try and practise the interpersonal skills which she appears to be lacking. It will certainly be good practice for when you start work as there will almost certainly be people you come into contact with at work who will want to drag you down and ruin your confidence!
Make sure you know what your goals are, and try to stick with working towards them - this tutor will eventually go out of your life, but if you let her affect you achieving your goals, then her spirit will stay with you... make sure you don't let that happen! Good luck kat
kat the cobbler
Jan 21 2009, 05:29 PM
I just let the others get on with it to be honest. I haven't got the energy to argue with her.
Flossie
Jan 21 2009, 05:59 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 21 2009, 04:06 PM)

After all three of us in the lesson arguing with our tutor (this is the one I have problems with) she told us that she hated us and that we are the worst class she's ever taught.
Well anyway, after her telling me last term that I need to go back to basics for my flute playing she's now decided that for my next assignment I should play.....wait for it.......Syrinx!!!
I've told her that I'm not doing it because I hate the peice and I'm not stressing myself over a piece that I know I will struggle to play. I said I will find two pieces that are of a similar standard. She wants me to find a piece that will improve my timbre!!
Ignore the teachers comment at the top about you being the 'worst' class. It sounds like
she is the one who is struggling. I am amazed that the tutor has actually said that! There's times I've had to say hard things to students in order to stir them into action, but it's always done carefully - and I try to ensure that it leaves them with a positive sense of something they can do to improve the situation.
If you're not happy with the Syrinx don't play it - your dislike of the piece will probably impair your performance of it.
Have you considered either the Hindemith sonata (1st movement) or the Mathias Sonatina? These are both a bit more contemporary (I've got the impression that you prefer more modern music). The Hindemith is on the TG syllabus for grade 8 (and I think may also be on the AB syllabus at this level). It's a piece which you can get quite a lot of emotion into and, whilst it inevitably needs good tone, there is more variation to this within the piece compared to the Syrinx. The 1st movement of the Mathias is AB grade 7 and the 2nd+3rd movements are TG grade 7 (but I think the entire thing is on the diploma syllabus). The first movement is fast with some jumpy bits and is also (I think) slightly cheeky. The second movement is lyrical and therefore tone is particularly important for this, but it is a different charachter to the syrinx and therefore needs a different tone colour (I try to capture a more eerie feel). The third movement is lively and (I think) playful. Busser's Les cygnes (swans) and Les ecureuils (squirrels) also may a good pairing, and I think these may be or have been on grade 6-7 syllabi. The swans are lyrical and the squirrels lively. If you need an unaccompanied piece then the RR Bennett Sonatina, one of Piazzolla Tango Etudes or the Jacob Pied Piper might suit (you could probably play the piccolo section on flute as it's for uni).
With all of the above pieces I'm sure you can find ways in which they can improve your timbre - but you may need to explain
how they do so, because I don't think your tutor knows that much about flute playing or the range of tone colours available.
notmusimum
Jan 21 2009, 06:03 PM
QUOTE(kat the cobbler @ Jan 21 2009, 05:29 PM)

I just let the others get on with it to be honest. I haven't got the energy to argue with her.
Probably the best plan the tutor sounds a bit unbalanced. Can't you raise a grievence proceedure against her for saying she hates you all? I can understand that the type of bullying she's been doing towards you might be difficult to prove as more than a personality clash (I'm thinking that management won't want to see/know/accepting of it rather than you not having grounds). Surely it's totally unprofessional to "hate" students that she is supposed ot be developing.
kat the cobbler
Jan 21 2009, 06:55 PM
QUOTE(Flossie @ Jan 21 2009, 05:59 PM)

If you're not happy with the Syrinx don't play it - your dislike of the piece will probably impair your performance of it.
Have you considered either the Hindemith sonata (1st movement) or the Mathias Sonatina? These are both a bit more contemporary (I've got the impression that you prefer more modern music). The Hindemith is on the TG syllabus for grade 8 (and I think may also be on the AB syllabus at this level). It's a piece which you can get quite a lot of emotion into and, whilst it inevitably needs good tone, there is more variation to this within the piece compared to the Syrinx. The 1st movement of the Mathias is AB grade 7 and the 2nd+3rd movements are TG grade 7 (but I think the entire thing is on the diploma syllabus). The first movement is fast with some jumpy bits and is also (I think) slightly cheeky. The second movement is lyrical and therefore tone is particularly important for this, but it is a different charachter to the syrinx and therefore needs a different tone colour (I try to capture a more eerie feel). The third movement is lively and (I think) playful. Busser's Les cygnes (swans) and Les ecureuils (squirrels) also may a good pairing, and I think these may be or have been on grade 6-7 syllabi. The swans are lyrical and the squirrels lively. If you need an unaccompanied piece then the RR Bennett Sonatina, one of Piazzolla Tango Etudes or the Jacob Pied Piper might suit (you could probably play the piccolo section on flute as it's for uni).
With all of the above pieces I'm sure you can find ways in which they can improve your timbre - but you may need to explain how they do so, because I don't think your tutor knows that much about flute playing or the range of tone colours available.
Thanks for those suggestions. I'll have a look through my music and see what I've got. I know I've definately got the hindemith. I just found it rather amusing that last term she was giving me grade 1 and grade 2 pieces to play and then this term gives me a grade 8 piece. Talk about extremes!!
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