I'm still on the problem of a trombone for my daughter. (And I should say that I know nothing about brass instruments).

Her teacher told me today that he wanted her to get an F/Bb trombone so the yamaha trombones that I had found at John Myatt's were not the right ones. They don't have the one he recommended (YSL 356) and their website says that yamaha trombones are currently hard to get hold of in the UK. I phoned Phil Parker who said that this particular one has been discontinued and that he couldn't recommend any equivalent F/Bb trombone.

This lead me to wonder what an F/Bb trombone does that an ordinary trombone doesn't do and why my daughter needs one now.

I can, of course, ask her teacher next week but her lesson isn't until Friday and I would like to decide what I am doing before then. Her teacher had brought me a quote from a music shop in his home town so I could just buy from there but I need to tell him on Friday if that is what I want to do as it is the last lesson before the holidays and yamaha are putting up their prices by 5% on January 1st.

Finally Phil Parker said that yamaha trombones are now being assembled in China and he no longer recommends them so warmly. Has anyone else heard this?

An F/Bb trombone has extra tubing on the bit that goes on your shoulder and a little thumb thing that engages the F extension. This alters the pitch of the trombone and basically makes some slide positions easier - less 6th and 7th position, so quick changes between notes become much easier. It takes some practice to learn how and when to use the F extension though and it does make the whole instrument a lot heavier.
I play (very badly!) on a Yamaha trombone that has an F extension. I don't know the precise model though. Have you tried second hand notices in music shops? ebay (but be careful there)?
I'm surprised at how unhelpful Phil Parker's were. They're normally great.

Thanks Daisy.
Phil Parker's weren't unhelpful - they just said that they are having a lot of problems with stock at the moment for various reasons and won't have anything new in before January. He also said that F/Bb trombones are popular at a professional rather than a student level. I am wondering if this is perhaps cultural (ie different in France), as since posting this I spoke to a trombonist in an orchestra I play in and he said he would never recommend any students buying a trombone without the F extension.

If you think it would be helpful to talk through the options, get in touch with Windblowers in Nottingham, who are extremely helpful and knowledgable and probably worth a call for advice, even from France. Just beware though, they are closed on Mondays.

All the trombonists in the county groups my daughter plays in have Bb/F trombones and they are students aged 11 (my daughter, she has a Conn 88H and has had it for 2 years) to 21.

Most of my students have Bb/F trombones once they reach around about G5 level (just the way it works out usually, its not essential but does allow them to develop the lower range properly). My daughter had hers very young because she made it into the National Children's Brass Band at the age of 9 and couldn't reach 6th position - which she needed to!

If you are looking to only buy one Bb/F trombone that can see your daughter through everything style-wise then do consider really stumping up and getting a Conn. They are superior instruments to the Yamaha in my opinion and I did consider buying the "intermediate" model that your daughter's teacher suggested but decided that if I was going to invest that much money I might as well go the whole hog and "do it properly" and get the Conn 88H. It is a closed wrap (open wrap is just too risky with a young child for me!) and my daughter tried 3 different Conn 88H (same model), the yamaha xeno (which she hated), the yamaha mid-range Bb/F (also hated as it felt unbalanced), plus a Besson Sovereign (yuk) and a Rath (too big). She chose the 88H she has got now and loves it.

We went to John Packers in Taunton, Uk and they were brilliant. Their website is www.johnpacker.co.uk. If you want to know anything else then please PM me and I would be happy to try and help

Thanks Kixmusic.
My daughter is nowhere near as talented as yours. Of course she may change but she currently says that she wants music just to be a hobby when she grows up (although she has no idea what she wants to do). If when she is older she decides she wants to take it more seriously, I think I would look to upgrade again then.

She is not used to using sixth position as she is using a compact trombone at the moment and although she has grown a lot taller her arms are comparatively short (the sleeves of her tops are always too long for her - I used to think they were badly made until her sister started growing into them and for her the sleeves are the right length).

Her teacher also said it was important not to get too wide a bore as she would find it too tiring to play. I'll have a look at the John Packer website and may get back to you later.

I'm sure your daughter is just as talented Kerioboe! Although my daughter is currently doing a lot of music for her it is only a hobby too and I took that view that if she wants to give it all up in the future then at least her instrument should have a reasonable re-sale value. That and the other reasons I mentioned are why I took the plunge to go for a more expensive instrument.

With regard to a big bore being tiring - well, yes it is more tiring to play a bigger bore instrument but agai,n I adopted the principal that if she was going to move to a Bb/F and have to get used to a new instrument she might as well do it all at once, get used to a bigger sounding and blowing instrument at the same time as a bigger/heavier instrument. She has done well with it and although it is quite heavy she regularly takes it into school for ensembles (most days in fact) and brings it home on the bus.

I would agree the Conn 88H is a good all-rounder but it is expensive with her at that age. I think from memory Packers do a Bb/f at intermediete level of their own that maybe worth a look, my music service uses a lot of Packer stuff and its fine for the mid-grades. Otherwise second-hand is the way to go. I wouldn't recommend Besson trombones, they just aren't as good as the Yamaha's were.