Well... what a morning! Went into the violin shop near my in-laws this morning, and have fallen in love. Twice.

The first contender is only 4 years old. He's an Ashbury, £199, and has a bright, clean loud tone. He's shiny and clean, no wolf notes or squeaks, and only the slightest whisper of discord at 3rd position. Played favourably against a £400 one, nice and confident. Perhaps a little too clean, if anyone knows what I mean, bt such a step-up from my Stentor II I was astounded! Thought it was amazing until...

I met the nameless, 140 year old Bavarian. £195. He's got loads of surface scratches, but oh my god he's beautiful. Very mellow, almost viola-ish, with a range from whisper-quiet to loud enough (no where near comparable in volume to the first). Third position is jaw achingly beautiful and haunting, but am a bit worried about the lack of fine tuners (i'm only grade 3!!) and the pegs are a bit tapered at the end, meaning it took a while to stay in tune (tuned it for them, too!!!) It's got gut strings at the moment too. Seemed to keep its tone and pitch well once tuned in though.

Anybody faced a similar dilemma? Which did you go for? Which would you recommend for me? Is the age of the second one likely to be a good or bad thing? Part of me (and the boyfriend) thinks the Asbury would be better because it'll mellow out in time. But a massive part of me is in love with the character of the Bavarian. It's almost gravelly in its mellowness - the only two ways I can describe it are "it plays its age" and "it's a bit like Paul Heaton in the Beatiful South singing 'Old Red Eyes Is Back'"

If it helps, the Bavarian felt more comfortable, and easier to play, especially in position shifts. But friends have suggested that th Ashbury would settle down and become easier in time. The guy at the shop liked both, has set both up beautifully (bridges fit perfectly etc) and said neither has any major flaws - the marks on the Bavarian are just aged varnish.

Any advice gratefully considered!!!

I don't really know anything about violins. Just thought I'd point out that you can get fine tuners fitted and new pegs for the older violin if you wanted them. That's one of the things that the luthier did to my new (similarly old) violin to sort it out.

Go with the one you like best - pegs and things can easily be sorted out (incidentally, if the pegs are slipping, the guy hasn't done such a great set up job...)

If you've really fallen in love with the old one, buy that - at this level you'll want to upgrade again at some point and the older fiddle will keep it's value more surely than a new, low level Chinese one.

It seems that when you describe them, you really have a thing for the old one - I'd get that one if I were you.

Put it this way, they both play all the notes you need, so pick the one you enjoy playing the most - you'll be spending a lot of time together!

Allan

thanks allan - not leasts fr saying what i think i wanted to hear!!

it was completely untuned when i first picked it up - the 'e' just took a little while to stay stuck (possibly because i was terrfied about pushing it in too hard and causing damage). once i got more confident with it, it stayed put perfectly.

i do have a 'thing' for the old one - incidentially it says hopf on the back but i am VERY dubious about the accuracy of that marking! (wisely, too, i think).

does it matter that it's a mellower, less powerful sound? will that cause a problem in exams and things?

and thanks, sarah, too. i asked about new pegs, said it shouldn't need them but would happily fit them for me under the 6 month guarantee if they caused a problem (i.e. not staying put). likewise with the fine tuner, althugh i'd probably only have it on 'e'. would mean changing from gut though, i think (although i'm considering doing this anyway!)

As Allan said, pick the one you like the best. If I were you i'd go for the old one from what you said.

I don't think the mellower sound is a problem, unless its really muffled. You could always get some brighter strings, though I'm not sure how much difference strings would make to that, you'll have to ask someone who's better informed than me.

If the pegs dont stay put, theres always peg paste which I suppose is less drastic than getting new pegs and might stop them slipping.

enjoy the new violin
x

Ive been in exactly your position recently and its such a dilema. You sound like youve been very lucky to find 2 violins that you like so much so quickly. My search turned into an epic
Im a sucker for old violins but did try some very nice new ones too but my heart just wasnt in them.
I felt I learnt a lot trying different violins and learned that muffled isnt good but mellower wouldnt put me off. Strings definately can make a difference as the violin I bought was very bright but a set of Obligatos have made a great difference.
I say go with the one you love, I open my case and like what I see which makes a big difference to me.

Agree - get the one you like best. Adjusters are very easy to add (and cheap) and pegs can be changed (but not so cheaply). The Hopf won't be of course, as you've realised, and the Ashbury will be Chinese. All the Chinese violins I have ever tried (though I admit to not having tried the very best) are much louder and brighter than all the European instruments I have tried, but bear in mind also that the strings have a huge effect, I assume by gut you mean gut covered with metal such as Eudoxa? They will have the effect of mellowing the violin quite a lot and you should bear in mind that they are hideously expensive to replace, break frequently and are an absolute nightmare to keep in tune (and should not be used with adjusters anyway) - but they do sound wonderful.

Liz

You know, I've never found that gut is hard to keep in tune once it's settled - it's just as stable as anything else on my fiddle once it's set in.

No knowledge of violins but better as others have said to get the one you love not the one you think you should have and regret it. I upgraded my clarinet in the summer and before trying out I was pretty convinced I'd buy a yamaha but went for the tone of the buffet in the end. And don't regret it!!!!

well, against all expectations (including my own!) i went with the ashbury.

went back to the shop fully expecting to buy the bavarian. played them both, and the bavarian didn't seem to be playing as well, whereas the ashbury didn't seem quite as bright. tried allsorts of little tests and tricks, and the bavarian seemed to get worse, not better. the ashbury, however, started to sound really quite nice. i took two impartial observers with me (one of whom was a violinist) and played both to them, without them looking at which was which. they both said the ashbury. then the violinist friend played them both to me, and to my surprise, the ashbury won hands down.

just goes to show the difference a day makes!!!

i think the day before i'd fallen in love with the idea of the bavarian, and wasn't thinking in terms of what would be best for me as a learner. going to put some mellower strings on (thinking obligatos) and just wait for it to settle and mellow out completely. don't know how much the difference was me, or the violin, but think i made the right decision in the end!

talked with the folks in the shop, and they all said the ashbury sounded more appropriate, and really quite nice once i'd selected another bow and whatnot. i still think the bavarian would make a lovely little character violin for someone's collection, but not convinced as a main instrument!

thanks for all your help guys!

That's a very good sign Violins always change a bit when they are brand new or haven't been played for a while, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Brand new violins tend to get better. Older ones...well if they re lacking in build quality then they may actually get worse. It sounds like your Ashbury will only get better with time.

The only thing maybe worth considering is whether you could get some really good strings and take it to a top luthier to have the bridge, soundpost and bassbar checked to make sure you are getting the best tone it is capable of. That shouldn't be too expensive and may make a significant difference as sometimes they are not set-up perfectly when new. For new strings, on a new violin, might I suggest Larsen or something similar which have quite a soft tone, rather than brighter strings like Dominants or Evahs which could result in a brash tone. You can probably find a set of Larsen for £35 or so. They WILL make a positive difference, I promise!

Enjoy your new instrument.

am pleased to report i'm still very much in love with the new ashbury. have put evah pirazzi's on it, which softened the sound somewhat (took them from the old stentor, where i'd put them in a desperate effort to make it sound decent!)

it seems to get better each time, although it seems a little quieter, more nervous (or maybe that's just me).

a quick question - some people seem to suggest that taking it a luthier (not the one who set it up in the first place) to see if it can be improved in any way is a good thing. anybody agree, or at grade 3 and a £200 instrument, a waste of time?

Im no expert at all but if you like your new violin as it is now I would leave it as it is for now. I bought a new (older) violin and loved it but we had to spend about £150 having a new bridge, soundpost and something done to the fingerboard as it was the original 1900's set up and I kept catching 2 strings at once when I was playing as the bridge was the wrong shape. If I hadnt have been catching the strings then I wouldnt have had anything done to it.
I'd be inclined to save the additional cost for if you decide to upgrade again in a few years time.

If you've just bought it from a luthier, get him to change the set up if you feel it needs changing. If it's brand new, leave it a few months, unless there's something glaringly wrong, then take it in - things will almost certainly have shuffled a bit and need resetting.

Enjoy your new fiddle !