I have been teaching for over ten years now and was wondering if anyone else has been left thinking the same thing as me in regards to piano exams by the ABRSM:

All examiners are thoroughly trained and have to pass very strict exams to become an examiner. One of the prequisites is a high standard of keyboard skills (understandable, as they have to play for the aural tests).

Although all the examiners have training on the different instruments being examined, if you enter a student in for an exam, the chance that the examiner is a specialist on that instrument is quite slim. However, when it comes to piano, all the examiners are experts (at least to grade 8 anyway). Does this not set a very unfair dissadvantage for pianists?

There are other thing that are against pianists:

1. They don't get chance to practise on the piano (a few warm up scales hardly counts as practise). I know other instrumentalists have to be accompanied by the piano which has its own difficulties, but at least they get to rehearse with their accompanists.

2. A teacher is allowed to enter the room with the student in all instruments apart from the piano in order to tune the inssturment to the piano. This naturally helps the student, especially in the early grades. I know examiners are meant to be friendly and put the candidates at ease, but come on...a familiar face is always going to be better than an examiner, however friendly they are. I was actually stopped from entering the room with a 6 year old student who was in floods of tears as 'the examiner can deal with him' .

3. The number of scales required for piano far exceeds the number of scales required for violin (and others, although I don't know the syllabus as well). The piano requires 4 major scales, 2 minor scales and 5 broken chords. Although the broken chords are all the same fingering pattern, it still outweighs the violin requirements (3 major scales and arpeggios - 2 of which are the same fingering pattern).

When I wrote to the exam board my 'concerns were taken into account' but nothing seems to have changed at all.

Does anyone else have any concerns like this...or conversely, disagrees with me on anything - I love a good debate!

Many thanks!

Sorry, but I disagree!

I acknowledge your concerns for pianists, but I would counter some of your implications of unfairness to pianists by saying that

-Pianists don't face a lot of the difficulties that crop up with other instruments eg technical failures of the instrument, tuning and intonation problems, co-ordinating with accompanists.

-Jobbing pianists have to play whatever piano they are presented with, so part of the proper preparation of exam candidates is knowing how to cope with an unfamiliar instrument - properly done, a few warm up chords and scales should be perfectly adequate to get the feel of a piano.

-Piano is indeed a difficult instrument, especially in the early stages - getting to grips with 2 staves, hand independence etc. For those who struggle, there are other exam boards who offer several levels of pre grade-1 exam, that can be a useful stepping stone - or maybe they should try a single line instrument instead?

-If you don't like what the AB offers, vote with your feet and go elsewhere, or don't do exams. I for one am delighted that the AB has not dumbed down it's exams, unlike so many other educational institutions.

*rant over*

At face value, I can see what you mean about the scales.... I am learning the piano and have taken my Grade 6 and am trying to get my head around Grade 7 scales. I teach clarinet- and yes, Gr 1 has 2 major and 1 minor 1 octave scales with arpeggios and Grade 1 piano has more scales (my daughter is doing Gr 1 piano). However, on the clarinet, there is no obvious finger pattern to make scales easier. When you get to 2 octave scales at Grade 2, the clarion register notes are different fingerings to the octave below. The only sure way to remember the scales is by muscle memory- playing them so many times as each octave is not a repeat of the last. Also, wind players have the added problem of breathing and stamina. Then, when the scales reach the altissimo register (Grade 3), the pupil has to have a firm enough embouchure to sustain the high notes.

I know it's fairly similar for violin students, where they have to shift position in one Grade 3 scale- which is not easy. My daughter is learning Grade 4 scales for violin and Grade 1 piano scales- she finds the broken chords easy in piano- and there are now no arpeggios in Grade 1 piano. She finds grade 1 scales easy. She has worked out that although there are some black notes in different scales, they are basically (almost) the same pattern for Gr 1 piano scales.

But what do you do when parents specifically ask for the exams to be the ABRSM ones (which, like you I do agree are the best all round)?

I also teach the violin - one of the hardest instruments for tuning - and have been shocked at how easy it is for grade one kids to get distinctions. One of the main reasons I see is that the pieces are so much easier than the grade 1 piano pieces. For instance, one piece (J'ai du bon tabac) had four lines. Three were exact repeats, the fourth was half the same, the last two bars were slightly different. They had to learn just 6 bars! I have not come across a grade 1 piano piece that easy yet after 10 years of teaching!

I only teach piano, so I haven't had any experience of other instruments and the standards required. I suppose you just have to explain to parents that you cannot make valid comparisons between piano and other instruments because you are not comparing like for like. I warn the parents of my students who take up other instruments that they are likely to make much more rapid progress in the early stages. They often get fed up with the piano because they feel that they are not making as much progress as their friend who plays flute/clarinet/insert other instrument.

I would aim to enter students for AB exams as my first choice. However, there are sometimes good reasons for choosing an alternative eg student who really can't cope with sight-reading or aural, in which case a TG exam may be a great alternative - parents are usually delighted when they discover that their kid can do an exam that plays to their child's strengths or avoids some terrible bugbear. Likewise the strugglers can do a pre-grade 1 exam and come away with a nice certificate and a pat on the back from LCM. Horses for courses.

Maybe I've been lucky - I've never yet had a parent pushing for any exam, let alone a specific board. I'm probably just too scary for them to argue with..

Actually, the '07-'08 Grade 1 Mozart piece, Allegro in F, had only 6 bars to learn. There were 3 lines, with lines 1 and 3 being identical, while the middle line had 2 repeated 2 bar phrases. I wouldn't say it was simple exactly, but it was certainly one of the easier options. Usually, by hunting around among the alternatives, it's possible to find something that suits the students particular strengths.

Over many years I have accompanied many brass and woodwind candidates at grade examinations and I have to say that my conclusion has also been that it is far easier to obtain Merit/Distinction marks on these instruments than it is if you are a pianist ; for that reason I have just switched to using the LCM Step exams for beginner pupils as these seem a good reward for progress in the early stages of learning . I don't agree that they are only . The Prep Test has never found favour with my pupils - or their parents.

This could easily just become a thread in which everybody's personal experiences are cited as hard evidence for one board or one instrument being harder or easier than another.

So I'd just like to say (very boringly ) that

All instruments have their difficulties/advantages/disadvantages, and some things that are advantages to some people will be disadvantages to others.

Some instruments will be easy to make progress on initially while others will be hard to get off the ground but on which progress will then be rapid.

Some multi-instrumentalists may just be better at teaching one instrument than their other instruments, hence better marks there.

Trinity Guildhall is not simply 'the easy option' for those who can't sightread and aren't good at aural tests.

Me neither. I play piano to roughly grade 8 standard (according to my teacher), but couldn't possibly comment on other peoples' technique.

TG exams are just as hard to gain the higher marks in (sometimes harder in my experience), and, in my view, are equal in status to AB. They are also a boon for people who don't like taking theory exams, and their aural tests are much more relevant to listening to music as a daily activity. Their sight singing in the higher grades, however, is MUCH more difficult.
I have several busy students - Mums who work and also help run their husbands' businesses, who, if pushed to work towards a theory exam for the purpose of taking grade 6+ in their singing, would simply give up. Likewise the student who wants to get grade 8 before going onto uni, but hasn't got theory. TG have gained several candidates (who all passed well) there. The grade 5 theory knowledge is tested in the aural tests, and for people who don't want a career in music, is much more relevant than testing it on paper.

Only know about piano so no comments on whether piano exams are harder/easier than other instruments but regarding examiners and their keyboard strengths, I've noticed:

(1) Examiners who are organ specialists have huge expectations (and mark meanly) for scales and baroque peices (what they're good at) but seem amazed that anyone can play romantic/modern music and mark generously.

(2) Truely top-class piano specialists mark meanly whatever.

(3) Most examiners are great and provide a nice balance.

OT perhaps, but re the previous post ... I recently took G6 saxophone, and was told that my examiner was a saxophone specialist (he has certainly done a number of sax arrangements etc). He certainly wasn't a mean marker - so maybe specialists are not necessarily the least generous?

Having implied above that I wasn't getting involved in personal experience quoting , as I don't think we can really make sweeping statements unless we're entering hundreds of candidates per session, I do have to say that it hasn't been my experience that top class pianists mark piano candidates meanly! If anything, the reverse, which, I suppose goes to show that it's just the luck of the draw for all of us. A benevolent examiner might award an extra mark or two for flair beyond the grade, a nervous child might lose marks that we don't understand when looking at the mark sheet, another examiner might be hard on mechanical playing, which might mean there are aren't many negative comments on the sheet to reflect a lowish mark...there is a multitude of reasons for why marks might not be exactly what we expect.

Back to the original question: Personally, I do feel sorry for little children who come out of exam rooms feeling upset that the piano was not the type of thing they're used to playing. If they're used to a keyboard at home, not only will the notes be harder to find in relation to the ends of the instrument, but the keys will require more pressure to make a sound. It could possibly be argued that it's comparable to a clarinet beginner arriving at the exam centre and being told he's doing his exam on a saxophone. (Ok, not quite, but you get the idea!)

I don't think there's an answer, though. Unfortunately we can't take our own pianos with us, and anyway, the exam instrument has to be a good one, which many children will not be used to in itself. So, as teachers, I suppose we just have to encourage parents to buy a decent instrument as soon as the child looks like sticking with it, and as soon as they can afford it. In the meantime, we should be getting them as much experience as possible of playing as many different pianos as possible.

I once had a long discussion about this problem with a friend who is a music teacher and who plays piano, clarinet and ‘cello. Her children play piano, oboe, bassoon and violin and she had worked with peripatetic brass teachers.

She said that although the requirements for each instrument differ in so far as you cannot really compare the same grade across several instruments, by the time you got to Grade 8 things had more or less evened out.

I actually think it’s a bit silly to imagine you can compare grades on different instruments and expect them to be the exactly the same. The skills needed are often very different and what is easy on one instrument will be difficult on another.

Another point made to me by a professional flautist was that she thought the flute, in the early stages of learning was a much easier instrument than the piano. The disadvantage was, she said, that when young flautists who had raced through to Grade 5 suddenly found they had to work hard for Grade 6 it tended to come as a great surprise. Pianists, she said, didn’t suffer from this psychological hurdle as they were used to difficulties from the start.

The choice of instrument depends on many variables and the ability to play a particular instrument does too.

A quotation comes to mind, but I can’t remember where it comes from - « Comparisons are odious ! »

Dulciana, well said in your post just above (post 14). Lots of good points very well put if I may say so.

Examiners who are organ specialists have huge expectations (and mark meanly) for scales and baroque peices (what they're good at) but seem amazed that anyone can play romantic/modern music and mark generously.

I really don't think you can generalize to this extent. I know a number of organists who don't fit this description. Our director of music is a Messiaen expert. Our assistant organist plays a lot of modern Scandinavian music and has written articles about it. I should also add that another organist on our team can extemporise brilliantly in any style you care to ask. I regularly hear music spanning five centuries, not only in recital but also on Sundays.

It might be worth bearing in mind that the scales and 'group A' piece of an exam can contain much of the technical element required.

Katyjay will no doubt remember the precise numbers...but for G8 recorder there were something like 250 possible scales/arps/articulartion combinations that could be asked for... (different articulation can mean different fingerings, just to make them distinct!)

Just to clarify - I don't regard TG or LCM as easier options than AB, simply different and more suitable for some candidates. I like the flexibility of choosing different supporting tests up to grade 5 for TG and prefer to have 3 pre-grade 1 exams (of which my students have usually done 1 or 2 rather than all 3) with LCM for those who are not ready to go straight to grade 1.

I would endorse the above. It's really worth the trouble to request a few minutes' practice on the piano at the centre (outside of the examination time), especially if your pupil is taking one of the higher grade examinations. I've occasionally been called upon to accompany instrumentalists on a piano so unresponsive that I've just been glad that I wasn't the candidate. I know the AB makes a big effort to ensure that pianos at centres are in tune and well regulated but some of the smaller boards find it increasingly difficult to find premises with satisfactory instruments - recently a pupil had to contend with a piano where the D above middle C was silent !!.

I always try to ensure that pupils who are at schools where AB centres are conducted, take exams there ( where they can be acquainted with the piano) rather than at a centre, although I have to forgo the pleasure of seeing my name on the certificate when the pupils lands a Distinction !!

I know that generalisations are sweeping and don't cover everyone - I really didn't mean to imply that no organists play modern music or that ALL top piano markers are mean. Sorry if I needled anyone. Simply that, having been invloved with entering people for over 30 years now, it's just a thing I've noticed. And, to repeat the last bit, most examiners are great and provide a nice balance.

Completely agree, by the way, with the problems of pianists who are used to digital pianos then performing on acoustic ones.

I agree - I just took mine. I was, however, refering to the early grades. By grade 8, all instruments are playing all scales in various different permutations.

OT maybe...(should really stop coming in here but it makes interesting reading)
With regards to examiners- I've found that generally regardless of what they are specialists in, the grumpy looking examiners are the ones that give the best results...you come out thinking how awful it was cus *he/she* just stared blankly at you and said about 10words in total, then you get merits/distinctions...
similarly, happy jolly examiners are evil markers i've generally found...you come out thinking actually it didn't go too badly then result are only a pass/low merit.

Being a grade 8 pianist doesn't make you an expert on the piano, but it does mean you have a pretty good appreciation of what the instrument is like to play - its technical limitations, which bits of the pieces are trickier than others, what kinds of mistakes are more or less forgivable etc.

If the examiner doesn't know an instrument, they might not pick up on everything you've done slightly wrong, so in that respect you're at an advantage, but they also will not necessarily understand the limitations of your instrument, so will mark you down heavily on things which, to some extent, are outside your control or very difficult to control: eg low grade recorder players get marked down for lack of dynamics.

Also, if you play something other than piano, you're expected to know your instrument very well, so if the instrument breaks just before your exam and you have to borrow another, which is likely to be significantly different to the one you're used to, they will not take this into consideration at all.

As far as scales go, I can't remember the exact numbers for either, but I think piano does have significantly more than recorder, but you can see the piano ones under your fingers, whereas you don't have that memory aid for recorder, so IMO they're pretty equal.

Sight Reading's definitely harder for piano, but then pianists get the advantage at theory and aural.

Sight reading - you get two lines to read. Maybe it's just me, but sightreading one line on recorder is much easier than two on piano.

Theory and aural - you can play through chords etc on a piano. Again, it might just be me, but the best preparation for aural and theory for me was playing through numerous chords, cadences etc at the piano. You can't really do that with other instruments.

Not always. My students had an examiner last summer who was extremely friendly and chatty and made them all feel very relaxed - and she gave them all very good marks. They were delighted with the whole experience, especially as I was trying out a new venue and both the venue and the piano were excellent.

I'd agree with this on both points.

AAAH!!!

Thanks for this revelation. Now the reasons are clear for results of the music exams I took as a child and young adult!

I had an interesting experience at the last exam session - I had several little girls (all aged about 8 or 9) taking grade 1 flute. Now, a couple of these did have trouble with breathing, and had comments written on their music to remind them, but not all of them. Anyway, ALL of them lost marks per piece for "Breathing too often" "playing in short phrases" etc. etc. I feel that it is impossible for tiny children to play in phrases like James Galway - they only have little lungs!

Interestingly, if they had been pianists, they would not have been penalised for not being able to reach the pedals, or for not being able to span all the notes in a chord. Are we to assume that it is OK to have little legs and little hands, but not little lungs? Seems a bit of inconsistency here.

I asked a similar question of the Chief Examiner about two Octave Flute scales a while ago, got jumped all over. There are no allowances made for age on Flute by all accounts. What I do find interesting is that very young G8 Flautists often have technical issues that wouldn't be acceptable in even someone slightly older (teens), so obviously some examiners do make allowances.

My younger daughter is a perfect example of this. She took grade 4 cello last year and got 19 for her sightreading. She toook grade 3 piano last term and got 9 (which I imagine is some sort of record).