Following on from our recent discussions centering around teacher/pupil/parent relationships, I am curious to see just what some parents think of the tuition which their child is receiving and how their (the parents) relationship is with the tutor.

If responses are voluntarily restricted to just parents/guardians, it should make for interesting reading.

You pay for a service. Do you feel you are getting value for money? Have you been ripped off? Are you delighted and think it's cheap at the price?

Let us know

You must be reading my mind!

Violin and piano teachers both excellent. They both charge £20 per hour/£10 per half hour and only charge for lessons that are taken - no advance payment or payment for missed lessons. Both happy to reschedule lessons at short notice (but this works both ways as they may need to reschedule at short notice for concerts etc).

I'm actively encouraged to stay during the lesson -they're both confident enough not to be put off by another person being in the room. No problem with asking questions during lessons if the need arises. Actively included in discussions - not just expected to sit quietly in the corner!

My daughter clearly has fun has during her lessons. There's a lot of gentle banter - and if she feels she needs to dance or jig (or even do a cartwheel ) she's free to do so!

She's made amazing progress given that she's only 8. A lot of this is down to fantastic teaching but remember that parental support is also important between lessons - and it helps that I'm actively encouraged to participate in my daughter's musical development.

No complaints - just wish that I was allowed to pay more when we go over time!

I realized recently that music lessons have been part of son's life for nearly 11 years...longest running teacher has been teaching him for 7 1/2 years...when a teacher is part of a child's life for that long, it makes you appreciate a really good teacher-student relationship.

Son has ended up with 4 rather unusual teachers..what his teachers have in common: wide interests, involvement with music outside private teaching.



Are we getting value for money...somebody said in these forums that a teacher should be able to teach you something in 1 hour that would take you 3 hours to figure out for youself. From that point of view, yes, although when prices get up to 50 pounds per hour (with double that predicted when the current piano teacher hands Viohazard on to new teacher in summer), it's not a matter of value, but simply a matter of whether or not the money can be found.

Do we get the full time? There's quite a variation, but I assume it all works out in the end. Some teachers like to finish the lesson and shut the door, others like to sit back for a 15 minute chat...practicing their sleight of hand tricks to see whether Viohazard can catch them; talking about opera, offering to teach him the finer points of wine appreciation (!), or even just jamming together.

Have we been ripped off? I don't know that ripped off is the word to use...I stay away from the highest of the high profile teachers, because Viohazard just doesn't seem able to cope with that much pressure, but I've rarely felt that Viohazard wasn't making progress. When he wasn't, it was clear that he was unhappy, and that's a different issue. Ironically, with aggressive teachers, I also found myself nagging more at home, vainly hoping that perfection at lessons would prevent any angry attacks.

As for progress, the actual pace of lessons varies hugely with different teachers, but it seems to come out the same in the end. 7 years of guitar with Grade 8 coming up soon...his teacher teaches a lot of music at each level, and classes Viohazard as a beginner. Violin - 2 years of terror, 5 years of la-la land, 3 years of salt mines, and he passed Grade 8 last year. There's probably not that much difference between his level on the two instruments, despite the wide differences in teaching styles.

"Ripped off" suggests a teacher knowingly taking advantage of a student or parent...even when I've moved Viohazard, I've usually felt that the teacher was making a genuine effort to do what he or she thought best, but that their efforts were counteracted by personality/emotional issues such as anger, or power games involving denigration.

The nearest I've felt to "ripped off" was a teacher who appeared to be so invested in her own kids' musical careers that I felt we were just providing funding - her children were talented and very involved in music, but she didn't seem to remember what my kids were doing from week to week, and in 5 years she neither taught him to hold his bow correctly, nor how to shift positions ("I can see that you can do it by instinct, I don't need to teach you..."), so at post grade-8, he's in fact still consolidating gaping holes in his violin technique. But even so, she didn't put down his musical tastes, she recognized how different my kids were and taught them both differently, and fostered their interest in music. I think my sons came away from that experience with more music than from the teachers who screamed about everything or brooked no questions, even about their doorbells!

Conversely, what (as a parent) do I particularly value?

Maybe because Viohazard is a boy, I really value the teachers who make clear comments on technique. I don't think the average boy is able to understand the sugared pill type of criticism.

I appreciate teachers who keep criticism to the point and free of emotional outbursts.

I appreciate teachers who are able to praise as well as criticize. Viohazard's violin teacher threatens to kick his backside or turf him out the door quite regularly, but he also yells "WOOOONDERFUL!!!!" at the slightest provocation, so Viohazard isn't left feeling that he will never be able to meet his teacher's standards.

I appreciate teachers who follow up when they find a fault - once they've isolated a problem, they show clearly why it's happening, suggest remedies, and follow up over weeks/months. When teachers share their own technical problems I suspect that smaller children take it as an invitation not to worry about the problem, but as a teen Viohazard finds it very motivating to know that his teacher faced a similar problem and overcame it.

I appreciate hearing something about what the goals for the next few months or year are, whether it's technical goals, teaching or listening material, or exam/performance related. This helps me know what to ask about during the week. For younger children, an occasional child/teacher survey; newsletter; parent-teacher notebook etc. can help. For older children, e-mail seems to be the way to go.

I appreciate teachers who see the big picture: they talk about careers in music and how the present activities fit in, or how music fits in with other careers, and they are interested in different types of music, even if they are not personally experienced in every genre under the sun. Somehow, one teacher can say "you've come a long way, but in terms of professional skills, there's still a long way to go" and make it seem like an exciting prospect, while another teacher makes it sound as if the big world of music is not for the likes of unwashed youth!

I have three children all learning at the same regional music school and generally I'm happy with what we get for our money. The atmosphere in the music school is really friendly and the children get plenty of opportunities to play in front of an audience, as well as being able to join one of the music school orchestras (they have a lot of different ones, ranging from small ensembles right through to full orchestra).

Son No.2 has been learning the snare drum for a couple of months now and I'm happy with the teacher, although I'd prefer the group to be smaller than 4! But that's the way they do it here for the first year, so we just have to put up with it.

Daughter is in her second year of cello lessons and gets on really well with her teacher. She has a 25 minute private lesson, which seems to suit her best as she's a bit prickly and doesn't work well in a group. Her progress has been good, but I often think that a lot of that is down to the work I put in with her at home. I practice with her daily, providing piano accompaniment and general tips about musicality. But I keep my nose out of any technical issues as I don't play the cello. So perhaps teacher is not as good as we could hope - she is a bit wishy-washy, but at least she's friendly and doesn't mind me asking questions or making the odd suggestion here and there.

Son No.1 is in his fourth year of clarinet lessons and things went really well at first, but lately it's been nothing but a downhill slide. This is rather unfortunate as he's just started secondary school with music as one of his main subjects...

The fun has gone out of music for him and he would probably give up if he didn't have to carry on for this school year at least. Whilst he gets on well with his teacher, and teacher seems to understand him and tolerates, as well as works around, his difficulties (son has ADD), reading all ears' post has made me realise that they have just been working through the books with no clear aims or goals.

So I guess I'll have to have a chat with his teacher and see if we can find some way to make playing the clarinet fun again. Maybe leave off moving on to the next book in the series (he's just about finished the current one) and find other things for him to play that will make him progress but let him have fun doing so.

And writing all this has made me wonder how my children would be getting on if they didn't have any help at home...

I agree very much with All Ears in what is valuable in a parent/teacher relationship.

Over the past year I've really made an effort to sort out problems with my daughter's teaching. Inevitiably this has involved moving teachers and sorting some issues with an existing one.

At the moment 3 of the people teaching her are semi-pro, their styles are different but they all work with her as an individual and two recognise her strengths and are able to encourage and support her learning. The third she has only been with a couple of weeks and they are still getting to know one another.

I move one of her lessons recently as I wasn't sure of the teacher. I think she may have been naive in offering to teach my daughter, an instrument tha tshe may have been out of practice with, or perhaps slid into it. I didn't give the lessons too long I must admit but I couldn't see the relationship working long term.

She has two lessons still with the Music Service, one is a full time Peri, she gets on well with her teacher, progress has been reasonable.

The slight problem I've found with, school/MS lessons is the lack of focus on technique. I get the feeling that most of the time there are factors (lack of practice and other things that go with in school learning) that become the norm. It gets difficult for Peri's to recognise when someone needs a different style of teaching or is capable fo more than average. I'm not suggesting that I think there is anything wrong with the service offered or that it's deliberate on anyones part, it's more something that happens. I think in our area the higher grades become a problem as few children are taking them. It's probably not so defined if Peri's teach privately as well.

I do think highly of the Music Service and recognise the enormous support and wide opportunities that she benefits from. I suppose I've learnt to steer daughter around any slight short comings (no wonder I'm thought of as a pushy parent ).

Two lessons I'm expected to stay for and two I don't. I can approach any of her teachers to ask questions or obtain advice and there are no personality issues (just the opposite) with any of her instrumental teachers.

I'm really happy with my 2 children's teacher's - but fo rdifferent reasons.

Son (age 11) plays trumpet - his teacher is quite young and i suspect not very experienced but has just the right personality for my son. He seems to know just when to let him play his choice of stuff and have fun, and when to bring in stuff he wants him to play (my son fights against the boundaries if they are too tight, but works well if he has had a say in the matter.) He has a great balance between praise and stickers and also pulling him up when he doesn't do something the way he has been asked. He teachers at my house so I can hear what is going on whilst getting on with cooking the dinner - and can therefore have a quick word if need be. He always tries to rearrange lessons if need be and also teaches in holidays if we are both around - this is good for him as he gets bored quickly and would probably stop preactising if he had the same piece for too long. I suspect if my son wants to progress to the higher grades he may need another teacher, but he is making great progress and enjoying it at the same time so we will stay with this teacher for the time being.

Daughter (age 6) started violin in September with a very experienced teacher. I sit in on the lessons and am encouraged to do so - he shows me what to look out for when she is practising which I find very useful, as i thinks she is a bit young to be able to do it all for herself. He is lovely to her and praises her loads, but again points out ways to 'play even better'. He is less flexible over lessons as he teachers term time only in a local church building so we are one of a run of lessons, but that's not a problem - over Christmas we had quite a long break and she enjoyed the chance to go over stuff she had learnt before (she has problems with remembering things so lots of reinforecent works well for her.)


I do all my daughter's practice with her, but my son and I would murder each other if I tried that with him! I tend to listen to his pieces with him the first time he practises them and get him to tell me what he needs to practise - sometimes we make a list - and then i leave him to get on with it for the rest of the week - unless something is being repeatedly played incorrectly and I can't stand to listen to it any longer!

I feel very fortunate to have stumbled across both these teachers as they suit my too very different children so well. Long may they carry on teaching!

No teacher is perfect. Often a teacher who seems just right to begin with turns out to have defects (!!) on longer acquaintance. Sometime I wish I could take the best bits of all my daughter's teachers and combine them to make my ideal. On balance, I am satisfied with my daughter's tuition. Certainly I appreciate the fact that all her teachers tolerate my daughter being thinly spread between four instruments and singing. To some extent they even encourage this because it may enhance her general musicality.

I agree with "all ears" about what I appreciate in a teacher, so I will focus on the negative and mention some of the little niggles that have annoyed me over the years - not an exhaustive list, I'm sure:

1) refusal to prepare daughter (either adequately or at all) for aural tests;

2) claiming to attach little importance to exams, but giving my daughter the next set of exam pieces at the lesson after an exam;

3) giving no warning that they will be disappearing abroad for a concert tour in the middle of daughter's exam preparation;

4)cancelling lessons at very short notice because something better (performance opportunity) has come up;

5) happily taking money when we unavoidably cancel a lesson, without making much attempt to find another slot;

6) not having any obvious scheme of work, or targets for teaching my daughter; letting things "drift".

We have only parted company from 2 out of a total of 7 of my daughter's teachers. In one case it was because my daughter moved schools. In the other case it was acrimonious. I was worried that my daughter was covering too many pieces too fast without sufficient attention to the quality of the sound she was making. I hoped her teacher would explain to me why this was appropriate and I was wrong. Instead, when I tried to discuss this with her, she felt I was questioning her professional judgment, and she gave us the boot. So, I appreciate a teacher who is confident enough not to feel threatened by the genuine concerns of an ignorant parent, and open to discussing those concerns. I think the 5 teachers who are still managing to put up with me probably fall in that category.

My seven year old learns the piano and Violin. Violin is in a group of 4, and as far as I can tell she is making good progress (I have absolutely no idea how quickly they should progress on a string instrument as I have never played one!) She started in September and is making a nice sound. She really enjoys playing and is happy to practice. So, yes, I think I am happy with this teaching. The only thing I would like is for her to have an opportunity to play for an audience, but hopefully this will come!
As for piano, unfortunately I am her teacher as finances don't allow for another, so no I am not happy with this, I would much rather her have a professional teacher. She is making really good progress in terms of actually playing pieces, but it is the finer points such as aural, sight reading and theory that i'M WORRIED ABOUT. i'M just not confident in my ability to teach her these.

I think a good teacher is someone who can make music fun, but also ensure progress, understanding and opportunity.

My daughter learns 3 instruments - trombone, euphonium and piano. She has learnt trombone and euphonium with me for the last three years and started piano as part of her music scholarship for school in September. She now also has a thirty minute brass lesson with the general brass teacher at school.

With trombone I have taught her to G8 level (she passed G7 with Distinction last march) and she has had the occassional lesson with a trombone specialist. I am keen to continue to develop her trombone technique and had hoped that the lessons in school would do this but unfortunately the brass teacher is a french horn player who, by her own admission, doesn't really know a lot about the trombone at "that level". She does not know the repertoire, technical books or studies and to be honest "reacts" to my daughter rather than teachs her - I provide the repertoire, technical studies etc and to be honest she just picks the pieces she knows (1 so far) or likes the look of and gets her to play it. I am not happy with this at all, but we are now almost "managing" the situation and getting the teacher to study one piece in depth or wokr on her scale exercises or aural for her Grade 8.

My daughter IS now seeing a trombone teacher at the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama which I am funding myself (mad when she is on a music scholarship I know, but what else can I do without making life difficult at school?) and she is brilliant for her. The lady in question is actually a post grad student who is young, encouraging, up-to-date with both repertoire and teaching skills (having done a massiv part of it for her Bmus which she completed last year), and will ask her own teacher if she is not sure on anything. My daughter loves her and she works hard for her. It's a pain having to travel to Cardiff after school/work really but I certainly wouldn't give it up as it seems to work. So this I am happy with - just need to find some funding to keep it going now as I can't afford to keep paying out.

Euphonium - that's me, when I can. My daughter enjoys playing the instrument and I give her a lesson whenever I can. I prepare a folder of music and technical exercises, lip flexibilities etc for her to work through at her own pace when she can. It works okay - she passed Grade 6 with Distinction last December but she could do with working on her tonguing and being neater with her finger work before G7 (possibly July 2009)

Piano - early days but daughter enjoys the lessons, does no practice really yet teacher keeps saying she is improving each week. I get the feeling daughter is getting by on natural ability and would like teacher to give her a damn good talking too tbh. Daughter said this week that the pieces are boring. I pointed out that was because she doesn't yet have the technique to progress onto anything harder because she isn't practising and she agreed. Yet Strawberry Flip and her other pieces have not been heard this week and the piano books remain unopened on the piano .................... Jury is still out on this one at the moment!

Perhaps I have been lucky with my son's instrumental teachers but I have been very happy with all of them - despite all being very different characters. I have also never felt remotely "ripped off" by any of them.

Son (11) is on both his second piano and second sax teacher.
His first piano teacher was gloriously eccentric - she extended lessons to 1 hour and 20 minutes and refused to take any extra money but was sometimes a little too easily distracted by my son (I collected him from a lesson once and discovered them both sitting on the floor picking through a box containing a complete Saxon human skeleton that had been found in her garden some years previously!). She also didn't like grades because she had once strongly disagreed with an examiners comments.
Despite (or perhaps because of) her eccentricities she enthused my son with a real passion for the piano - introduced him to great music (Bartok, Clementi, Bach...) and we were very sorry that illness meant we had to change. I was very grateful for being saved the embarassment/guilt of having to stop lessons with her after her son "retired" her.

His current piano teacher is much younger & much more formal - (payment in advance and a contract) - but equally as enthusiatic, doing great music & has provided opportunities for my son to play (and sing) in public. Very pleased!

His first Sax teacher was via the local council - just out of Music college & massively enthusiatic - took him from scratch to grade 4 distinction in 8 months - unfortunately she then got a proper job so we needed to change at that point.

His current Sax teacher picked up son with a booked grade 5 that term and got him through with distinction - now is additionally doing some Jazz and improv with him - son loves it!

Music lessons are expensive (2 hours of instrumental teaching a week - 50 odd pounds) & require effort and commitment from us the parents, so I think we should expect results (but not necessarily grades). I also think it is reasonable to accept that teachers have expectations too - practice, prompt payment & timeliness. I have always taken time to talk to his teachers about progress and strongly believe that a good parent teacher relationship is essential if the child is going to progress.

I also believe that music should be enjoyable, and think the teacher's ability to enthuse is one of the most important skills a teacher should have.

As the person paying for those services I expect to get value, so, if I did feel ripped off - or if son wasn't happy in the lessons - I'd discuss with the teacher and if no resolution was forthcoming I'd move. Music isn't maths - you have fundamental choices over whether to do it or not - choice of instrument(s), choice of styles, choice of who your teacher is etc.

One last note - son's theory teacher is the best value since I don't charge!

I am extremely happy with my both my daughters current music teachers, cello and violin.

My daughter took up the cello in august 2008 and we have never looked back her teacher is fun and encouraging in a very positive while also letting my daughter know she will not tolerate sloppy playing or attitude. There is a lot of conversation and friendly chitchat between the two and im always given a full update at the end of the lesson and advised of and problems and always left with a positive remark. I would happily pay this teacher more.
I have already asked her to teach my daughter the piano (saving up for the piano) and my youngest son for cello when she feels he is old enough, he’s currently 2 ½ and loves playing his sisters, well attempting to play.


My daughter first started off with school violin lessons, as she was the only child in a small school to play and instrument these lessons were provided free of charge by the music service, if her teacher ever missed a lesson she would always make it up, and if my daughter was away ill she would often make this lesson up as well. Other children in the school took up instruments and eventually we had to pay, and £9 for 30 minutes was well worth every penny. I had a very good relation ship with this teacher and was involved a great deal by the teacher. Her teacher then left to play professionally and my daughter was passed on to another teacher.

My daughter was very upset by her teacher leaving and I do feel this didn’t help her relationship with her new teacher not only did the teacher have to deal with a very upset child, she also had to bring my daughter around to a new way of teaching. The new teacher’s style was very different and really didn’t suit my daughters’ learning, I tried to talk about this to the teacher but in the end I stopped the lessons because neither party was benefiting form the lessons. I was now paying £14 for a 30 minute lesson and felt private may be of more benefit.

So we started lessons with our 3rd teacher, unfortunately even after talking with her new teacher about what daughter would like form her lessons, and the new teacher feeling confident she could provide this, it was not the case. The teacher was very nice, but my daughter left her lesson not overly happy and didn’t seem to enjoy herself so after few lessons we stopped , I didn’t feel it was the teachers fault or that I was not getting value for money I could just see my daughter was not enjoying herself.

My daughter’s current violin teacher is fantastic she has inspired my daughter to learn again and has helped to re kindle my daughters love of the violin, which her first teacher gave her. This is the only lesson I have actually sat in on and I am actively encouraged to join in and often asked to help participate in my daughter practice. It’s a shame we may have to leave this teacher due to fiancés, if my daughter takes up the piano I may not be able to afforded the violin too, still juggling the books to work it all out, but the teacher may also be moving due to job opportunities so we cant commit to anything yet.

Bother her current teacher only take payment after the lesson and are both happy if I cancel in advance and do not expect me to pay. Sometimes they have to cancel but I am always given plenty of notice.

I'm very happy with my children's music teachers.
I do think it is a three way relationship, for us at least.
What makes a good teacher?
They need to be professional, by which I mean they need to be organised, run to time, focused and competent.
Our teachers give every impression of being genuinely interested in the individual child musically. They know their strengths and weaknesses and work with them to get the best from them.
Teachers need to be enthusiastic, inspired and inspiring.
It is a short but challenging list.
We are very lucky with our current teachers and I know that and very much value it.
Dora

After some trial and error, I could not be happier with both my children's music teachers. In fact, I am so happy that I share my cello teacher with my daughter!

My children are teenagers and go to a really informal, encouraging and inclusive local music school that is entirely led by the pupil's interests and musical tastes. It is possible to do exams (my daughter does and son doesn't) and there are public performances if one chooses, but the focus is on developing a genuine love for music, curiosity about styles and genres and offering fantastic musical education. They are extremely fussy about the teachers they employ and it shows. The balance between utter professionalism (lessons are never cancelled, communication is excellent etc) and relaxed enthusiasm is unsurpassed. My kids beg to go more often and with previous teachers, willingness to attend/practise outside of lessons was variable . . .it has transformed their musical lives and mine for that matter too!

My son and I share the same viola teacher and we're both happy. She makes the lessons fun and interesting and doesn't laugh at me when I make loads of mistakes or lose my concentration! My son is making good progress too.

Quite happy with violin teacher at school, my daughter made good progress. Communication could be a bit better, but I guess that comes with teachers who teach your kids at school and you rarely see them face to face.

Recently the various instrument teachers who came into the school to teach have banded together into a company. The price has gone up, but the communication have gone down. They will happily cancel and not replace lesson when the entire class has to go for a school trip; despite there were more than 24 hour notice. There were 3 kids in my daughter's class who lost a lesson each 'cause they were on a school trip. I thought this was a big rip off. The teacher could have easily scheduled a replacement lesson for the 3 kids.

The sad thing is it is going to happen again in future school trips. Like I said with the price of the lessons has gone up, and these teachers end up taking the money from several parents for doing nothing, and enjoy an early day back home!

Am extremely happy with both teachers provided with the school.

I pay £30 per hour each and think this is good value, not just for the quality of the teaching but the fact that the teachers do so much more on top of the paid for lessons such as organising concerts, mini orchestras, string groups, quartets, a free separate theory lesson weekly, separate aural sessions before exams.

They also come to exams for moral support, provide accompaniments to external events and are always happy to chat on the phone about anything. They also put great notes in a book so we know exactly what needs to be practised and give extra lessons in holidays on request or if they think it would be helpful then they suggest it.

Superb service - my only worry is when my daughter leaves primary school, what will happen then? I think we will have to look at one of the Saturday music schools.

This can be a problem with in school lessons as the trips are not under the control of the instrument teachers.
Maybe they couldn't reschedule if they are working full time and though it's not a good situation I don't think they really have an obligation to do so.
I think I'd have been a child who would have preferred to miss a trip rather than miss a music lesson but of course this is not usually an option which is tough for the kids too. I'd have been one very cross child on a trip if it meant missing a music lesson.

It's taken some manovering but I'm really happy with all daughter's instrumental teachers.

In fact, it's not always that easy to reschedule another lesson, even for 3 students. Not only do most peris teach in other schools during the week (so that, for instance, we can't just say 'Oh, come tomorrow at the same time instead' - because we're working somewhere else) - but also other visiting teachers are usually scheduled to use the practice rooms on the other days. There are only a few set times during the week when I can have a teaching room with a playable piano available. If I need or want to change my hours, it's almost impossible, because the flute/cello teacher is using the room. I don't feel especially comfortable with charging parents for lessons that their children haven't had; but, on the other hand why, should we lose out because the whole of Yr 3 are out at Hampton Court all day? What use would 24 hours notice be? This is a bit of a grey area, as often there is no clearly defined policy between the teachers, the school and the parents.

I'm extremely happy with my both sons' tuition. My younger sons' piano teacher is calm, yet enthusiastic about music and is bringing out the best in my son's piano playing. She's very organised and, as my son is happy to take exams, his piano-playing is fairly exam-orientated, but definitely does not simply consist of learning 'the next three pieces'. Both my sons have the same guitar teacher. My oldest son learns bass, has no desire to take exams and is having a whale of a time. He walks the 5-minutes to the teacher's house each week and his lesson frequently overruns. My younger son now has to have his lesson at school, so for him the best weeks are when the next pupil doesn't turn up and my son stays on (regardless of whatever he's supposed to be doing ). I haven't a clue whether he's working towards an exam at the moment. He plays a wide range of music - jazz and blues, Spanish and Cuban - some of which is exam syllabus and some not, and he loves all of it.

Won't there be tuition at the secondary schools? Perhaps I'm being a little naive and the council my school was in just catered for music very well, but when I was at school there was a visiting violin teacher at primary school, and the local secondary school had two visiting violin teachers (one of whom also taught viola), a woodwind teacher (taught flute and clarinet), a brass teacher (taught trumpet, trombone and french horn) and I believe there may also have been a cello teacher. At standard grade you could also get percussion lessons. Pretty much the only instrument you couldn't learn was piano (and no, I never have understood why!) The primary and secondary violin teachers were also the same people who were the section tutors at the regional schools orchestra.

Also, again, apologies for my ignorance, but how common is it for peri teachers to charge privately for lessons in schools? As I understand it, when I was at school, the music teachers were employed by the council. Lessons were free until I reached Standard Grade, and then the Council introduced fees, though these were minimal (if I remember correctly, something like £80 a year) and there were so many exceptions that hardly anyone had to pay anyway!

Price of lessons varies from area to area. In my area fees are definitely not minimal! Her's the link if anyone's interested: www.berkshiremaestros.org.uk/maestro1/modules/corporateinfo/feeswestberks.php

For a half hour group lesson (with 3-4 pupils) in school, current price is £86.50 per term i.e per 10 lessons. I believe some of the fee can be waived for the poorest families, but nearly everyone pays.

Here, individual lessons are only given at the music centre after school. Current price is £223 per term for 10 x 30 min lesson (works out at £44.60 per hour).

Bands, choirs, etc at the music centre are charged separately. Music is an expensive hobby!

Not only are they not under the control of the instrumental teachers but, in my experience, often the instrumental teachers aren't even told - even though the parents, pupils, class teachers, music co-ordinator and admin staff all knew about the planned trip.

And how often is a trip planned with only 24 hours' notice?!


Exactly! We don't all sit around for the rest of the week painting our nails and polishing our instruments (or vice versa ).

For a teacher on a reasonably full timetable to reschedule requires carrying out a swap with other pupils. This means that the pupil/s being swapped need sufficient notice to move to the time of the - for example - school trip and 24 hours isn't necessarily long enough. If a lot of a peri's pupils are on a trip, it may not be worth their while to travel into school to teach the remaining ones, so they may just cancel the day - and I think they're within their rights to do so if they haven't been given adequate notice.

The music service I work for suggests giving double lessons in cases like this, but this isn't always realistic as you can't teach an average six-year-old for a whole hour, nor can you add extra time at the end of the day if you're already teaching for all the hours the school is open and have to go straight home, or elsewhere, to teach private pupils.

Frankly, if the pupil and/or their parents have made the decision not to be available at the time the lesson normally takes place they can't blame the teacher for not being available on an alternative occasion.

[/quote]
Price of lessons varies from area to area. In my area fees are definitely not minimal! Her's the link if anyone's interested: www.berkshiremaestros.org.uk/maestro1/modules/corporateinfo/feeswestberks.php

For a half hour group lesson (with 3-4 pupils) in school, current price is £86.50 per term i.e per 10 lessons. I believe some of the fee can be waived for the poorest families, but nearly everyone pays.

Here, individual lessons are only given at the music centre after school. Current price is £223 per term for 10 x 30 min lesson (works out at £44.60 per hour).

Bands, choirs, etc at the music centre are charged separately. Music is an expensive hobby!
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That is a lot of money I opted for private and ended up paying less for an hours lesson than a half hour lesson thought the Council system.

Our local music service allows for 11 lessons per term, but there are some extra weeks at the end of the year when "catch-up" lessons can be slotted in, to allow for teacher illness/other absence and (I would guess, though haven't kept count) previously notified school events which affect a large number of an individual peri's pupils (eg as our lessons are usually after school, lessons might not be feasible on a school open evening etc). My daughter's violin teacher is also very generous at scheduling extra lessons (we tracked her down at a local infant school once!) in the run-up to a summer exam. We have always let her know in advance on the rare occasions when a school trip has clashed with a lesson, but having paid the termly fees I don't check up exactly how many lessons we've had by the end of the year. With a previous teacher who was ill a lot we did once get a refund at the end of the year...

[quote]This can be a problem with in school lessons as the trips are not under the control of the instrument teachers.
Maybe they couldn't reschedule if they are working full time and though it's not a good situation I don't think they really have an obligation to do so.
Not only are they not under the control of the instrumental teachers but, in my experience, often the instrumental teachers aren't even told - even though the parents, pupils, class teachers, music co-ordinator and admin staff all knew about the planned trip.[/quote]

I totally agree with you, peri teachers have no control over the trips and I do understand that. In my case the per teacher were aware weeks in advanced. I know I am guilty for giving 2 days' notice (I said more than 24 hours, not 24 hours as people perceive) other parents in the same class have given more than a weeks' notice.

[quote][...... always that easy to reschedule another lesson, even for 3 students. Not only do most peris teach in other schools during the week....... should we lose out because the whole of Yr 3 are out at Hampton Court all day? What use would 24 hours notice be? This is a bit of a grey area, as often there is no clearly defined policy between the teachers, the school and the parents.[/quote]

I am not suggesting that the teacher should come on another day. Well, the "company" gives 11 lessons per term, there are quite a few weeks where it is possible to reschedule another lesson, but this is not offered. From the teachers' point of view yes I agree that they shouldn't miss out on payment; but is no one seeing things from the child/parents' point of view? Does a teacher not care about the students when there is ample chance for resceduling lessons?

[quote]Exactly! We don't all sit around for the rest of the week painting our nails and polishing our instruments (or vice versa ).[/quote]

Again I am being misquoted, I never suggested that teachers sit around painting nails and polishing instruments all week. There is truth and nothing wacko about the fact that that particular teacher went home early guiltlessly on that day, but were paid all the same by the parents of the 3 kids who missed their lesson.


[quote]Frankly, if the pupil and/or their parents have made the decision not to be available at the time the lesson normally takes place they can't blame the teacher for not being available on an alternative occasion.
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I am not sure how it is possible for parents or pupils to choose not to go for school trips. My daughter is very young, the whole class and teachers are going; hence there is no one in the class to look after her if she decided not to go for a school trip and stay behind. The headmaster has made that clear. I would have thought per teachers would have some insight into this; rather than blaming parents or pupils who "choose" to miss lessons.

I don't really think that anyone can be blamed for loss of lessons on the days of school trips or other adhoc school closures. Peri's can't easily change their day especially if they have a full teaching timetable. Parents can't withdraw children from school trips as the whole class are often obliged to go.

I don't see any sense in one side blaming the other in these circumstances. This is a situation that will happen now and again and people just have to get on with it.

I'm not a Peri by the way just a parent. Our music service similarly allows extra lessons ot cover things of this nature. At the Arts Centre if you don't go then you loose the lesson. If the teacher can't make it then you get refunded that lesson, which I think is the same for a lot of private tutors.

If I discover on a teaching day that a pupil is on a school trip, or not in school for some reason, I'm not obliged to make it up but if the school gives me advance notice of any trips, then I can plan the 'make-up time' during the term so that the child does not miss out.

We do have to provide the correct number of lessons each term though, so if I don't give the prerequisite number of of lessons or make up missed time, then I cannot carry this over to the next term and the music service will be obliged to refund the parent for a missed lesson. Usually it works out ok - we do 11 lessons in Autumn term, 9 in Spring term and 10 in the summer term - there is usually a week or two leeway although we don't start lessons until the second week of term. When the teaching day is Friday, it feels like you start late and doing lessons on the last day of term really is not a great option!


Louise

I don't know about the teacher in this particular case, but when I taught in primary schools I certainly did go home early and guiltlessly if there were trips, as we were not paid for absent children (even in cases of no notice being given).


This is all true. However, it's much easier for peris to rearrange lessons if they are told about trips in advance and, in my experience, that rarely happened.