I was skim-reading the pages in the link Mad Tom gave in in his post "sound advice" and it said somewhere something about a lot of adults giving up after about three years because that was the length of time it took them to feel they had achieved something. (Apologies for this being a bit vague. I wanted to re-read it before posting but can't find the relevant part again).

My initial reaction was that in three years you haven't got time to learn anything very much (apart from how much you still have left to learn) but it then occurred to me that after three years my teacher increased my lesson time from 30 minutes to 45 minutes so obviously, in his eyes at least, he thought after three years I had learnt enough to progress up a level (lesson times here depend on how advanced you are). My own feeling is that there has been more of a change after five years - this year I was confident enough to join a windband (which lead to being invited to join another windband and an orchestra) and more importantly I feel that all the various technical things I have been struggling with over the past five years (and a few months) are finally falling into place.

Difficult for me to count, because I tried to teach myself the recorder for a few years, having had oboe lessons for about six years, and piano lessons for eight, well before that: the only thing I can say for certain is that I've had lessons on the recorder for just five years - at the starting point of those I would at a guess have been a possible for grade six, and by the three-year mark had got as far as ATCL. So I had managed to learn something worthwhile in the first three, and the next two after that, getting me to LTCL, showed what might seem to be slower progress, but in terms of what it's done for my playing is still very significant.

I blame the teachers, meself .

And as far as how much there is still to learn, oh, yes, I recognise that one only too well

Maybe 3 years is a psychological watershed? I think it could work both ways - I've been teaching for 3 years, and there are a few students who I have had since the beginning who are definitely beginning to feel as though they are 'past their sell-by date'. I just feel I have taught them as much as I can and they need to stop or move on to someone else as we have reached a plateau that I can't seem to shift them from.

I'm pretty novice on the cello as it has only been 2 and a half years, but I very much intend to continue beyond three years! I don't know if it is possible to quantify progress points, but I do think that plateaus occur, are incredibly frustrating and inexplicable and then just as inexplicably, they vanish. I have found with all new skills that sometimes you just have to keep on keeping on and let time work its mysterious magic.

hm... well, i could see that after 3 years, most people have probably reached the point where they could play half-decently--actually making a noise other people would want to hear, for example. but i don't understand why, having done that, they'd give up. surely that's just the sort of encouragement you'd need to continue?

i wonder whether they mean people give up entirely (not playing any more), or just stop learning and continue to play now and then?

It was giving up lessons for one of two reasons: either because they felt they had learnt enough to manage by themselves or because they felt they were never going to get anywhere.

I haven't seen MT's original thread but I think some people stop learning after 3 years because they are not prepared to put in the time it requires to learn further. Learning to play an instrument is a life long commitment. In the first year of learning you can practise for 1/2 hour a day and still make quick progress. This 1/2 practice is not going to disturb your life too much. But as you progress through your studies more time might be required on the instrument in order for you to be satisfied with your progress. This means you might not see you friends as much as you used to or not do the things you used to do as you do not have the time anymore to do them. After 3 years of playing I guess people can start feeling the "strain" of the changes in their life and some are not prepared to commit their time anymore to the instrument and want to resume a "normal" life. People have different priorities in their life. For some the love of the instrument is so great that they can adjust to the "new schedule". Other people might not be prepared to spend their free time practising hours on end...
Just my thoughts....

Perhaps 3 years is the average time to come to the realisation that this is just th every beginning and there is sooo much more to learn - result - either give up or continue with renewed enthusiasm..

I think three years is an important milestone, partly because generally your true level of ability will start showing around that time. I don't just mean instruments, I mean learning anything - I've both ridden horses for years and taught riding, and the three-year-rule seems to be fairly common knowledge in horse riding. For my own part as far as horses go, after almost exactly three years of proper tuition (I rode for years before that, but was never taught properly), a new instructor strolled into my lessons and started us on lateral work, i.e. the groundwork for advanced dressage. It was terrifying to begin with ("You want me to ask this pony to do WHAT?!"), but in the three years I'd been there, that lesson had coalesced into a regular group who were moving at roughly the same speed, and not making any further progress as an lower intermediate group. We got all excited when we looked in the lesson book on the way out and saw we'd been upgraded to an 'Advanced Intermediate' group



As for the violin, thinking about it properly, the pressure that made me quit did start to emerge after about three years, although it didn't reach silly levels until 4/5 years of playing.

I could imagine that for a lot of people 3 years is when they feel they can play reasonably.

For me, I'd love to get grade 8 in an instrument so I hope I'll be able to do that and carry on for as long as it takes, but as an adult it's pretty unlikely you'll get a career out of an instrument. They're not gonna let you into the conservatoire at 30 I doubt.

So when you get to the level where you're playing what you want to play I guess lessons are considerred an unneccesary expense even if you do carry on playing.

What an interesting topic.

I'm just approaching that 'giving up' phase, after two and a bit years, and am considering stopping my lessons after the Easter break.. but that's due to pressure of other work. I just simply can't fit in more than an hour every few days and I don't think that's enough to warrant weekly lessons any more.

It makes me sad but my degree work (not music) has to come first and given the nature of my perfectionism that will take all my waking hours. I don't think I can justify the cost of my lessons if I can't practice very much - unless a money-fairy appears . Sometimes already my teacher just plays duets with me and it's a very expensive way to pass time. I will not stop playing completely but it will just be for fun. I would certainly love to spend two hours a day, seven days a week pushing my technique hard but my career is elsewhere and I have no intention of a musical career in any shape or form!

I am hoping to join an orchestra soon though which will at least give me some playing fun.

I've only been learning for just over a year, but I can see that 3 or 4 years might be about right for me to end lessons, My current plan is to get to G8, As this is a hobby and not a career for me I'm not prepared to travel too far to get to lessons and the expense has to be taken into consideration too, I'm not too sure if my current teacher goes beyond G8. Getting to G8 should allow me to play in any of the local bands/orchestras. Of course this plan may change - if the right opportunity presents itself.

I've also been thinking anout the fact that so many adults on the forum take up 2nd (or 3rd) instruments - and wonder if this is connected to the 3 year concept - i.e. people getting as far as they can on their first instrument (with the constraints of advanced teacher availability and practice time) and decide to start something new.

*is sad that three years should be seen as a stopping point*

My lessons have given my music a sense of focus, and even after two grades and two dips, I'm well aware of how much I still have to learn - for instance, the pieces I play best are the ones on which I've had lessons. I demonstrated that only today - a music student had recruited me as a soloist for him to accompany for a class, and we played two pieces by Cima, one of which I'd prepared for an exam two years ago, the other of which I'd worked on by myself in the interim. The former succeeded as a performance way more than the latter did. The other thing is, having worked so hard to make a bit of progress, I'd be most sorry to lose it again. Music can be such a release from the burdens and hassles of life, that I'd sooner squish up a bit of my other time to make room for it, than drop it because of the rest of the stuff I've got on my plate... .

It'll be two years in May, and my motivation is as strong as it always was (even if, at the moment, the voice isn't...)

It's six years (and one month) since my first ever singing lesson and three and a half years for violin. Both are progressing steadily and I hope will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

Recorder lessons did stall at around the three year mark - largely because I haven't really decided what to do post grade 8. But I'm still playing a lot, and now teaching too. Flute lessons have replaced the recorder lessons I used to have though, and that's been about half a year so far.

In the last three years I've also had two stalled attempts at piano lessons. Pianos and I just don't get on together somehow....

Is there a change at the three year mark? Well, I think on each of my instruments that's been the point at which the initial rapid progress phase has finished and the rate of change decreased dramatically. And improvement from that point onward has depended on more practice than it did at a lower level. So perhaps it represents the time at which the decision has to be made how much commitment the instrument will get.

For singing it was the point where the decision had to be made as to whether this was going to continue as a hobby or become a career.