I know (or at least I think...) that they ABRSM try to make the gaps betwen the grades as even as possible and they do seem to do a good job; but often people comment that there is a big gap between certain consecutive grades. I was just wondering where people generally feel the larger gaps lie or if people think that the gaps do exist. I suppose it will be different for each insturment (which is why I used viva piano not general discussion, although don't feel left out, feel free if you want to talk about other instruments!). The poll is just a general one for the exam as a whole but you can make comments about different sections, e.g. there is a big jump in the difficulty of aural from grade 6 to 7 or whatever.

I put in an 'I don't know' option this time because I got complaints for not doing so last time!

I put an "I don't know" because my preferred option isn't on the list - sorry!

I would say on the piano the biggest gaps are between 0 grade (or prep test) and grade 1 - where you are suddenly expected to know quite a lot. Scales with sharps/flats, reading 2 or three note chords, bass and treble clef, and having had to play three quite demanding pieces with 2 hands playing at once.

The other large gap seems to be between grade 8 and dipabrsm, for those who decide to do it. The other gaps, I feel, are fairly even. I know some people think the gap of 5-6 is large, but it doesn't seem that different to me. I think there's a big status change at that stage - suddenly you're in the "higher" grades - but I don't think 6 is excessively more demanding than 5.

I don't know about piano but for clarinet you are expected to know a lot more in grade 6 than grade 5, plus you have to take a theory in between.

I believe there is a gap between Grade 5 and Grade 6 in the way that the different exam components are marked - if you look at the syllabus information, it states different criteria for Grades 1-5 and Grades 6-8. This must mean that there are different expectations of the higher grades.

I think there is a big jump in scale requirements between grade 3 and grade 4 piano.

Maggie

I think the biggest gap is between 7 and 8-in terms of playing larger-scale pieces needing greater technical stamina and musical maturity.

QUOTE (Fred @ Nov 2 2004, 08:16 PM)

I would say on the piano the biggest gaps are between 0 grade (or prep test) and grade 1 - where you are suddenly expected to know quite a lot. The other large gap seems to be between grade 8 and dipabrsm, for those who decide to do it.

Yes, I purposefully left those two out because the AB state that it usually takes longer to get to grade 1 from scratch (up to 18 months) rather than the year for the others. I also think that the jump to dipABRSM is huge and again isn't supposed to be the same: it's classed as a 'professional' qualification and a diploma rather than just the next grade (not that I don't respect that grade 8 is good, I do, but there's a definite gap especially for those that have failed/nearly failed a few sections of grade when suddely they have to pass every section) it's a completely different exam.

QUOTE (maggiemay @ Nov 2 2004, 11:51 PM)

I think there is a big jump in scale requirements between grade 3 and grade 4 piano.

I would agree with that but when one gets to grade 5 (assuming one has done all the previous grades) there are only about 5 scales to learn, I'd agree that the balance from 3 to 5 in terms of scales has been put on the 3-4 side rather than the 4-5 side.

It's true that the marking criteria change for grade 6 but I wonder how much that actually makes a difference: are they really more strict? I suspect (and this is mere speculation) that it's harder to pass but to get a merit or a distinction it's about the same (more in the way that I'm sure that some renditions done by people in the lower grades that get a distinction would also get one in the higher grades).

Are the people who are saying grade 5 to 6 saying so because of grade 5 theory or is it because you feel the difference in the actual standards of the two exams?

Some interesting answers, keep them coming.

The C pieces are hard in grade 8!!

I have done grade 5 to 6 piano in 5 months - I took 5 in June and have 6 in November. But it took me a year and a half to get from grade 7 clarinet to grade 8. I don;t know if that means I'm worse at the clarinet, better at the piano or the gap is bigger!

I don't think the grade 6 aural is much harder than grade 5. But suddenly having to do theory does make a big difference.

QUOTE (Markx1 @ Nov 2 2004, 10:52 PM)

I believe there is a gap between Grade 5 and Grade 6 in the way that the different exam components are marked - if you look at the syllabus information, it states different criteria for Grades 1-5 and Grades 6-8.  This must mean that there are different expectations of the higher grades.

I absolutely agree. Expectations are a lot higher. In terms of pieces, somehow at grade 6 it can be fairly plain sailing technically but the examiner is looking for a whole lot more in terms of style and expression. After all it is the beginning of the advanced tier and yes the examining criteria have shifted.

I do not think that it is at all to do with theory (as grade 5 theory is not so difficult) but only in so far as grade 5 theory sorts out the sheep from the goats and it is generally felt that those who have taken the trouble and put in the practice and dedication to get to grade 6 are usually the ones that will go on to grade 8 and beyond. Many fall by the wayside after grade 5 practical knowing that the theory looms and has to be taken if they are to go on. That is if you are doing ABRSM and not Trinity.

Maybe another question might therefore be 'are the gaps between the grades the same for Trinity as they are perceived to be for ABRSM ?'

And I also think that the gap between 5 and 6 does sort out those who have a talent in all departments. There are many players who reach the end of their natural potential by grade 5 and will take much longer to improve than those with more musical aptitude .

This is quite interesting, I'm not entirely conviced that grade 6 is marked considerably more harshly than grade 5 (I know it's supposed to be and I haven't done it so I'm not really the right person to say...) but to get a distinction in grade 5 one must be playing musically and I think that most renditions getting a grade 5 distinction would get a grade 6 distinction (even though the description of distinction at grade 6 is the same for a merit at grade 5) it's just that I don't think they would hand out distinctions for not musical enough playing. What mark does someone doing grade 5 get if they play do grade 6 distinction standard? I'm sure that 26 at grade 6 isn't as good as 30 at grade 5. I do, however, believe that there will be a difference between what they will award as a pass and a fail, the pass level will certainly be shifted upwards. Similarly I think a merit in grade 5 would still be a merit at grade 6 (perhaps loosing a few 'scraped' merits). Maybe the increase in technical difficulty of pieces is less to compensate for this, I don't know as I haven't done it that's a question that someone else will have to answer.

So for someone just about getting passes then I think that grade 5 to 6 would be a big jump but for someone already trying to play musically the gap will be lessened, I suppose it depends how the exams are tackled but I agree it leaves the potential for a big jump.

I would really like to ignore the issue of theory, it's not compulsory to do grade 5 theory whilst working for grade 6 practical, it can be done before: I did it between grades 1 & 2 but that doesn't mean that I say grade 1-2 is a big gap. Surely people who are weaker at theory (or young) should be doing grade 1 theory with grade 1, grade 2 theory with grade 2 etc. to mean that there isn't a sudden need for masses of extra work. Furthermore if one was carrying on to the higher theory grades then whenever one moves from grade 5 to 6 theory (which is a big jump) would mean that people would say that the gap in practical exams there was big. Silver Pianist poses an interesting question although I can't answer it since I don't have any experience of Trinity exams; perhaps people's opinions of them may be skewed though by drawing the parallel to ABRSM exams and thus the same conclusions because of the theory the ABRSM require and the fact that people say that the Trinity and ABRSM exams are equally difficult.

I see that people are reminding us that the grade 5 theory requirement causes problems to many.

WHY????

If you are really at a standard to pass well in higher practical grades then you must have 'picked up' most of the theory you need for grade5.
And as this is the piano forum then it probably is more true than for melody instruments.
If not then either it is the fault of the teacher who must have left an awful lot out of the learning process or that you personally decided not to take any notice when you were being told things other than which notes to play.

Is it the people who are not happy about the theory who are also having trouble with basics like scales?

As I skipped Grade 3, 4 and 6. I would have to say probably 5 to 6 or grade 6 to grade 7. For minor scale in grade 5 I had been given (more than 10 years now) a choice of doing either harmonic or melodic but in grade 7 (I believe it started from grade 6), I need to know both. Started from grade 7 I needed to do staccato for scale as well. I was required to sing lower of the melody that examiner played in grade 7 aural. In terms of pieces Grade 8 probably was very different from grade 7. In my time (sounded I am really old) List A and List C carried 27 marks and List B carried 36 marks. and List B was really long likes 10 to 18 pages.

But people skipping grades shouldn't mean skipping the work needed to get there.
It should just mean that they(or their teachers) decided that they were able to work through to the next level without it being necessary to do the exam. Sometimes this may be because a person is a particularly quick learner. It may be for financial reasons too and that it is not seen as important to collect a full set.

There is a HUGE difference in standards between grade 6 and grade 7 Clarinet. The pieces at grade 6 are not much more difficult than Grade 5 but Grade 7 is almost as hard as grade 8. I did my grade 6 and was really confident about starting work on grade 7, but when i saw the pieces they knocked me sick! I ended up deciding to spend an extra couple of months practicing and just did grade 8.

Sorry guys, what I going to say it not really relevant to the topic is just answer sbhoa comments.

[QUOTE]

That true but if I did it grade by grade I wouldn't have a oppurtunity to sit for diploma and play all the songs I really like. I did failed my grade 7 & grade 8 aural badly but I got quite good marks for my grade 8 pieces and managed to get a merit.

Can anyone tell me how to quote, please.

You must end your post with [/QUOTE].

For example:

QUOTE

That true but if I did it grade by grade I wouldn't have a oppurtunity to sit for diploma and play all the songs I really like. I did failed my grade 7 & grade 8 aural badly but I got quite good marks for my grade 8 pieces and managed to get a merit.

QUOTE (Kerropi @ Nov 4 2004, 07:55 PM)

Can anyone tell me how to quote, please.

Click Quote on the top right of one's reply, then type your reply below [/QUOTE]
If you'd like to quote more than one replies, you can click QUOTE above the space for you to enter post, after finishing copying other's replies, finally you have to click it once more (should be /QUOTE with []).
In addition, you can type QUOTE with [] and /QUOTE with [] before and after the reply to be quoted in this space for you to enter post( not in the space of entering post to quote).

Besides, if interested, you can type in the user name, time in your quote when you type the quotes yourself (you can see the format when you edit one of your posts including quotes).


I don't know the gaps much as I think the exams are not difficult. In fact, on should do well on grade 5 theory if he/she really knows "music", not just by training to play.
I learnt it and only did 1-2 years' past papers, and got 95.

I skipped grade 1, 2, 4, 5. I wished to skip grade 7 also but my teacher doesn't allow as he said that the gap is quite large between grade 7 and 8. However, after taking the grade 7 and 8 exams, I don't think the gaps are large.

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Nov 3 2004, 04:26 PM)

So for someone just about getting passes then I think that grade 5 to 6 would be a big jump but for someone already trying to play musically the gap will be lessened, I suppose it depends how the exams are tackled but I agree it leaves the potential for a big jump.

Not sure I followed the rest of your post. You lost me! I think, however that what you have said in the quote above is the crux of the question of whether or not there is a larger gap between grade 5 and 6 than between the lower grades. I cannot speak for grades 7 and 8 because I have not done them

However, is not a question of marking more 'harshly'. Examiners are marking according the criteria set for the grade in question. In other words you can mark 'harshly' or not so 'harshly' within the criteria.

What I would agree with is that if someone plays really musically at grades 1 to 5 it is often something that will tip the scales between them getting a high pass a merit and a distinction (depending on the degree of musicality). However at grade 6 the musicality and good interpretation is expected from the outset even to get a merit. So, if it is not there, then all one can probably expect is a low pass. So yes, someone who has not been playing musically in the lower grades and has scraped through is going to have a hard job getting their playing up to a musical standard to meet the merit and distinction criteria for grade 6.

Having talked to people I get the impression that this process repeats itself between grades 6 and 7 and 7 and 8 where increasingly musical playing becomes a required expectation.