I bought a 1/4 sized violin for my youngest son. I've just taken it to the luthier and he's basically told me that it's a dud There's a bump on the fingerboard and the bridge is way too low. It would cost more than the violin is worth in order to put it right. I just wanted a student model to see if my son is interested in playing.

I'm thinking of ordering the same make that my eldest son has because it's a great instrument - sounds lovely and the luthier said that the setup was fine. It's a bit more than I wanted to pay, but I don't want to go through this again.

I am very cross

How much was it?
Can you take it back?

I would be VERY surprised if you couldn't take it back and get it exchanged, unless the luthier has made any alterations, (which it would then be hard to prove where the damage was caused). Try it, don't take it sitting down!

Did you buy it online or at a local shop? You should definitely be able to get a full refund or exchange.

It was £79 and is a music store in my nearest city. I'm going to take it back and get a refund. I don't want anything else from them because they were hopeless when I was trying to buy my viola. I don't really know what I expected.

Good for you Well, you weren't unreasonable to expect they would be able to sell a playable violin. It's their fault entirely. I hope it works out alright!

Did the shop's name include something you look through to see outside? If so, I've had problems with them before. Took my flute there once, and never again.... had to take it to someone else after for him to undo the repair and re-do it how it should have been done in the first place! grrr.

One of my students has a lovely second hand 1/4 Zellor for sale...with a spare set of strings and shoulder rest £120 if you're interested!

Hi - would you mind telling me what make your other son has? I need a new violin for my daughter as she has outgrown her 1/8, which is a shame as it's a lovely suzuki we bought second-hand without actually realising how nice it could sound, plus it look so sweet as it's so small!

Many thanks

2 childmum - I got my eldest son a viola from elidatrading - it's one of their Romanian ones - a genial and it's lovely - I quite fancy one myself! It was about £200, but is set up properly and the service was very good.

Flossie - yes, it was that shop! I'm furious. They sold me a viola which I had to take back as well - it was too large for me and they argued so much about giving me my money back that I had to get on to the consumer people and they drafted a letter which I sent them! They sell a good range of music books, but I'll never have anything to do with their instruments again. I'm sorry about your flute.

Sounds like a shop worth avoiding!

Legally, as I understand it, the difficulty is that the shop is only obliged to refund your money if the goods are not fit for the purpose, since you had the chance to inspect them first. So if the shop decides to be awkward, you have to prove that the violin is unplayable.

People think that ordering online is risky but as long as you order from a legitimate business and it is a sale rather than an auction, you are in fact safer. You can, in law, return an item bought online (with obvious exceptions like CDs and computer software) within 7 working days for ANY reason at all since you did not have the opportunity to inspect it before purchase. The shop is only allowed to charge reasonable postage and possibly a handling fee.

Liz

Eee, by 'eck! I've just had a right job getting the money back from them! *lol* He wanted me to accept a credit note, but I quoted the 1979 Sale of Goods Act which states that goods must be fit for purpose. He accepted that the violin was unplayable, but wasn't going to part with the money. I then started to have a meltdown in the middle of the store whilst he went away to find a replacement instrument - he returned with another violin only to find that that one was faulty as well!!!!!! He eventually relented and gave me a refund, but said that he was going to mend/set up the second vioin and phone me when it it's ready so that I can come in and buy it!!!!!!! The cheek of it!!!!!!!

Anyway, I think I need a sit down and a cup of tea now after all that. I'll be too scared to go back in for my sheet music in the future. Honestly, buying a musical instrument should be a pleasurable experience, not a test of nerves

Ooof, poor you! Glad you got your way, though! Makes me glad that I have a decent shop to do business with here in Leeds.

At least sheet music you can check thoroughly before you buy it, but I guess you don't want any more hassle in case someone remembers you....

Well done for keeping your nerve!

Glad you got your money back Echelon. You have confirmed all my feelings about the shop in question! I keep coming across people who think the shop is good and was starting to doubt my own feelings. I am hoping to buy a violin soon and will definitely not be going there!

There is a specialist violin place in Hexham, but don't know what they are like. I had a look on their website recently and they only seem to sell the more expensive instruments.

I get all my music online now. The shop in question is reasonably good for popular music and for music for the lower grades, but I actually find their range of sheet music rather limited with regard to repertoire for specific instruments (try buying a specific flute sonata or concerto!). I also spend less on postage buying online than I would on the train fare to get to the said shop. Think I will also be buying my violin online when I can afford it.


If you go back for sheet music in a couple of months then the chances are they won't recognise you - they get so many people going into the shop.

Unfortunately the shop in question is the only music shop in the area (nearest alternative is an hour away on the train, and more than that if you drive) so they have no real competition and they therefore have a complete monopoly in the area plus no incentive to improve. I have heard that they are about to open another shop in a large regional out-of-town shopping centre - arrrggghhh.

I agree Flossie, they do have the monopoly. The bloke in the shop was even boasting that they've been there for 100 years and they'll be there for another 100 years!!!!! I felt like saying "yeah, and I'll be grateful that I won't be around to have to keep coming here"!!! He shouldn't be so complacent because I think that more and more people are now doing their shopping online.

If I have to go back for some sheet music, I'll take my son's spy disguise and speak with a fake Russian accent or something!

I am glad you managed to get your money back and well done for sticking to your position - I am really fussy about customer service and even if it means extra travel, inconvenience, I tend to avoid places that have been a bad experience forever more!

Flossie - just for info, Hexham Violins (if that's the shop you're talking about) are EXCELLENT! Very nice to deal with, fair prices, good range of quality instruments and great advice.

I'd recommend them with no hesitation.

or do what i've recently started doing after a bad experience with the aforementioned purveyor of all things musical...

... jump on the train, go to leeds (costs about £12...). find a lovely little shop called hobgoblins and have fun on the second floor. if their luthier is in, all the better! (and if not, they'll phone him for you if you just want advice).

a MUCH more satisfying experience.

I'm in London but the name of the shop alone is sufficient to make it sound magical!

Last week I saw an old episode of Fawlty Towers and I can't help imagining them using John Cleese as a Music Shop owner. Can you picture it?

"Ah, you wanted a 'wooden' violin! Oh, and pray tell me what's wrong with seven strings?"

Steve

They have a few shops - including one in London - see here!!

There is a Hobgoblins branch in London! Rathbone Place off Oxford Street, nr Tottenham Ct Rd Station across the road from the Post office sorting office. All those unusual instruments like a set of bones! (similiar to spoons!)
http://www.hobgoblin.com/london/index.php

Thanks for the suggestions Rosfrog and raceybo.

Think I might do a trip to Hexham once I've saved up my money - I need to take my piccolo to the flute man near Hexham anyway, because the poor thing desperately needs a service.

raceybo - I think you must be further south. The cheapest ticket to Leeds seems to be £18.50 for the cheapest advanced option (2 x £9.25 singles) or £25 for an off-peak return (both with railcard). But I am thinking of going to Hobgobblin if I ever happen to be in Leeds because I'm really curious to try one of their celtic flutes.

Fantastic - thank you so much. I have never come across them in all my years of living in London I feel a trip in a Central kind of a direction coming on . . . probably tomorrow.

I am relieved to say that my youngest now has a proper violin He took one look at it and decided to call it Bonzo *lol* He's also started Suzuki lessons. The guy from the music store hasn't phoned me thank goodness!

Grand. Where did you get it from?

Over the internet from elidatrading. I've always worried about buying stuff online, but me and my husband buy all kinds of things now and we've never had a bad experience with anybody online - unlike the stores that we encounter. I think that stores should offer a better service because everything is available online now.

I went into another music store a couple of weeks ago with my eldest son's viola to buy him a shoulder rest. The bloke behind the counter got one out and was trying to put it on the upside of the viola instead of the back!!!!!!!!!! He didn't have a clue as to what he was doing and I was having kittens incase he dislodged the bridge or something. What a fool! *lol*

if I'd known it was going to be called Bonzo, I would have suggested getting their Dalmatian version!

Liz

Sounds like there are some totally crummy stores around. Spoiled here in Leeds with Scheerers and Hobgoblin, whose website told me they have a 5-sting viola in with a low F string! Would I love to hear that, or what? I'm tempted to go in and pretend .......

Mind you, the shop Echelon and I have both had problems with was 'recommended' to me (by a couple of amateur musicians) as being a 'good' shop and instrument repairer. It probably is 'good' to people without much experience or who happen to have been lucky with what they got. I have no intention of ever taking an instrument there again after what they did with my old flute.

Sounds like they stay in business more as a result of good luck than good management!

I wonder where they get those strings from? Fascinating stuff!

Liz

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*lol* He's taking it to bed every night as well.

It's an electric one, if that clears anything up?? I will go and look at it one day, I think.