My daughter is choosing her GCSE options and she is really keen to do music, but there is no space in the timetable with her other choices. She has asked about doing it privately and I have no idea whether such a thing is a) possible and b) wise. I would love to hear thoughts . . .

My daughter has just chosen her GCSE choices and was in the same situation. I approached her Director of Music who is extremely supportive and has agreed for her to do Music GCSE 'off timetable'. Not quite sure how this will work but she's happy because it allows her to do drama!!!

That might be an option for your daughter too Miss Sooky

About a year ago my daughter started doing GCSE Music in an after school group which runs for one hour per week. There were 8 inthe group but now it's down to 4. There is very little support and virtually no feedback. I really wish she had never started it let alone been entered for it out of step with the rest of the group.

The main problems with going it alone are feedback on composition, that's assuming that the composition skills are already in place. I think it's fair to say that the other 3 in the group are finding the Terminal Task (OCR improvisation) difficult but it's fairly straight forward if you already have some improv experience.

For us the lack of teaching for the listening paper is the big issue, there is a lot of stuff to learn for a small percentage of the exam. OCR have just recently brought out study resources so we are attempting to use these but before you make a decision it might be worth looking at what is available for your board.

The next difficulty we are going to face is the ensemble performance element. There is no one in school of similar level that could duet with daughter and the teacher is unable to attend after school ensembles.

I think before you amke any decision that you need to be certain that your child has the support in place. check the syllabus as the each have different regs surrounding the performances. Learn as much as you can so you can help support. If your child is not used to improvising and there is an element of this in the exam it may be a good idea to start looking at it now.

I fully appreciate that neither child is likely to be in the same position as my daughter. I'm sure they will get the support needed from their schools. It is worth though being aware of what can go wrong and I don't think it's the easiest thing to do as an extra, even with G5 Theory and G5 and above practical, though it does make it accessible.

Thank you for that thought - I know the head of music wanted her to take the subject as an option, so she may be open to the idea . . .



Thank you for taking the time to reply - this is exactly the type of honest response I was seeking. My instinct tells me it is probably not the best idea and that she can continue with her music anyway without needing the extra pressure of a 12th GCSE, but I promised her we would check it out properly before deciding. I really appreciate your perspective and would be keen to hear other thoughts too.

Have you tried your local 6th form College, those in two nearby towns to us run GCSE after school. This is mainly because most schools only have small numbers for GCSE Music so the schools send them to the 6th Form colleges.

My daughter has the chance to take hers early at school and get it out the way, but would have gone to the College if not.

I haven't but I will investigate - thank you!

H Pudding

This is useful information- thanks. We've just started looking into this recently. Although my daughter is only in Year 7, a few of her friends from music school are considering doing early GCSE music in Year 8. Her school, however, doesn't support this and so we might look at 6th form colleges. Might you be able to send me information on the ones near you that support this?

A few points here

-I have taught GCSE privately with much success, and to be honest, if they have a sound practical base (eg above the standard required for GCSE) and the right motivation from the pupil and parents, it is easily possible.

-There used to be an issue, and possibly still is, that you can't officially enter pupils privately because of the coursework certification involved. I got round that by entering them at the school where I was Head of Music, (which in one case led to one poor girl being the only girl in a room of hormonal teenage boys for the listening exam, but that's a different topic!).

-Rhinegold produce excellent practice listening material, and there is other board specific material from other publishers.

-Remember that the ensemble part of the exam can be done with anyone, not just other pupils/teachers etc. Ask around, and you should be able to find someone who can help.

-Although I've done the whole course in a year, I've never done it with anyone in Year 8 or 9. The vast majority of children lack expertise and maturity in their compositional skills to get top marks. If it is just passing that you would like, that's not an issue, its almost impossible to fail the compositional element. But if a good grade is what you would like, bear it in mind.

-Not doing GCSE at all is of course an option, but if they then decide to do it as an A level, if does put them at a disadvantage. Under the old pre AS schemes, this wasn't a probelm. You could teach a bit of GCSE and A level together, do the GCSE after the Lower 6th (Year 12) and then complete A level a year later. You could even use the same compositions. Nowadays, its much harder to do that way, I should know as I'm doing AS and A2 in a year with a girl at the moment who didn't do GCSE.

Hope this is all helpful.

I'm not sure not doing the GCSE does put you at a disadvantage as regards A level, that seems to be quite a common route to take round here because of timetabling problems for GCSE. Certainly, the students I've known who have missed out GCSE and gone on to do A level have done very well indeed and gone on to good universities or conservatoires for music.

This is the route my own daughter has taken, she will start her A level next year without having done the GCSE. In terms of theory and practical, she is already well ahead of her peer group who are taking GCSE music. In fact, the more 'musical' of her friends who have taken music GCSE have been very bored with it indeed and wished they had taken a different option like her!

Do check with the school though, most will allow students to go on to A level as long as they have decent practical and theory skills - some schools locally look on each case on its own merits, others stipulate specific grades for practical and theory.

My son tried to do the GCSE off timetable, but couldn't keep it up. Having said that, however, he didn't start until well into year 10 - around March, I think, and the problem for him was the combination of jumping in at the deep end, having to be very self-motivated, and getting straight into the composition coursework, which was always going to be his weakest point. He was also having to miss some other subjects to attend the occasional timetabled music lesson, and I felt he couldn't really afford to do that. He did have help from the music staff, but of course, the closer it got to deadlines and exams, the busier they were.

I think that it is that it is definitely possible, but only if the child is really motivated and capable of working more independently than might usually be the case, and also if there is support from the school.



I think my sons' school has the same approach as your daughter's - it is possible to go straight to A level without the GCSE, if the music department is happy that a certain level has been reached in practical and theory. My older son wasn't able to do this, as he had opted out of exams quite a while ago and had only just taken up the instrument that he plays now. My younger son will be in a much better position if he wants to do this. At the moment he's set on taking the GCSE first, but if options prove too difficult, this is something we'll definitely consider.

Thank you for giving me the idea to look for someone ot cover it with her privately.

This is a little off topic, but I've been struck by several mentions on the forums of children taking GCSE music very early. Are there good musical reasons for doing this, or is it really just to get it "out of the way"? (notmusimum, I know your circumstances are special, so I didn't really have Emsoboe in mind, here.) My own daughter is in Year 8, has Grade 5 theory, Grade 5 practical in 2 instruments and Grade 6 in another, all with good marks. It seems likely she will take GCSE eventually. It would never have occurred to me that she might take GCSE as early as Year 8 or 9 but for discussion here. I can't help feeling it would involve a lot of work when her time would be better spent actually playing her instruments. Alternatively, if the exam can be passed by a reasonably musically able 12 year old without too much effort then does it have any value at all?

As someone who took GCSE Music a year early (but some years ago) for timetabling reasons...

Things that Music GCSE / school music are generally that you don't get out of playing etc:
composition
music history / analysis

Sure, at GCSE the music history / analysis section is not particularly deep, but if you haven't picked this up previously and you've never really done any composition then you would be at a disadvantage in starting A-Level Music. You would also lack the breadth of experience in different areas (world music etc) that is covered at GCSE. None of these are insurmountable problems though.

As for taking it super-early, if you can't see a point, then I shouldn't bother with it. If your child does end up studying music at university / music college then they're going to need to cover the material at some point before they go but doing it in miles in advance isn't really necessary. If it's an extra-curricular that the child wants to do, then much like adding in any other additional musical activity you need to weigh up the costs and benefits - costs are usually in terms of logistics and finances, but with GCSE would probably come some additional stress at exam time.

If you want to do it (effectively) instead of KS3 Music lessons then that seems reasonable, although waiting the extra time to do it in Y10 or Y11 may mean that it is easier to get the best grades - it depends a lot on whether they already do any composition, get good marks in aural, have a well-rounded musical understanding generally...

Some sections of the exam are generally easily passed by a good instrumentalist/singer - specifically the performance elements. Others are more difficult. But then A-Level performance isn't that hard if you already have G8 before you start, but the rest of the exams can be fairly difficult, and passing a final year degree recital if you already have FRSM is probably not too bad, but that wouldn't imply that you could do the rest of the finals without having to work extremely hard.

Halka, there is of course great value to a GCSE at what ever age it is taken, there are kids doing GCSE French, Maths and other subjects at my daughter school from Y8 onwards. These are bright kids who are capable of top marks. younger children in Primary schools take GCSE Maths for example, so do this give less value to GCSE Maths.

My daughter starts her GCSE Music next year, Y9. 20 kids have been chosen, they have to have G5 Theory and above on their instument and be G5 Piano. They have spent last two years been stretched in Class Music and are given extension work as well as composition. They then go on to Highflyers Music where they then expand on what they have learnt and go on to take A level early. It is expected that these kids will get an A when they take their GCSE. Others take it at the usual time.

It is in my opinion, a great idea and think GCSE's should be spread out were possible, why have them all in one job lot, if the kids are bright and able to cope it is just one less exam to worry about in the main exam season or perhaps gives the child a chance to take another subjet should they wish too.

A mum, 6th form College is too far from Nottingham to get there on time, Sorry! The main one is Franklin 6th form College in Grimsby.

I wouldn't under normal circumstances have wanted Emsoboe to take GCSE Music early. I agree with Halka that this time in her life is better spent working on her instruments if she wants to spend time doing musical things.

If there had been a choice I would rather that Music had been picked as an option as the way it is at the moment it will be her practical skills that will get her through. In my opinion having AB grade exams is more than enough and a much better indicator of where she's at musically.

I fully realise that she won't get a pass based only on high makes for performance and the Improvisation, that she will need marks from the other elements. Ideally all sections would be equally strong or at least some foundation will have been gained.

I do feel strongly that she's not really learning very much in her current situation and I'd rather she was exploring composition. For instance the teacher gave her 14/15 for her first composition, she'd never composed before, there had been no supp[ort or advice ongoing. I don't think this mark reflects her ability and would rather that she's got a lower mark and been asked to improve it. That way re-thinking it would have provided a learning experience.

I used to love doing exams. Many many years ago I took as many "O" levels as I possibly could, several early, then did as many "A" levels as I could, did brilliantly in them, and went off to university only to discover that many of my fellow students seemed much better educated than me . I had been busy passing exams while they had been learning all about the world around them! Perhaps I had this in mind when I wrote before. I was also thinking of my daughter's cello teacher, who is Italian, and believes that the English are obsessed with exams. She hopes to produce well rounded musicians who will enjoy their cello playing for life and is frustrated that some of her pupils seek to move quickly from exam to exam only to give up once they achieve Grade 8.

My children's (independent) school does not generally enter children early for any GCSE's even though it is academically selective and has its share of young "bright kids, capable of top marks". I do not entirely agree with their reasons. Nevertheless, the children are not suddenly less bright and capable as a result of this. They are only deprived of one opportunity to demonstrate their ability, when many others are available. They are prevented from rushing on to the next exam, that's true, but as I know from my own experience education is about more than that. The school does seek to identify and stretch the most able in each subject and perhaps feel better able to do this outside of the constraints of an exam syllabus. I don't know! I do know it would be a bit disappointing if the only way they could think of to stretch these most able students was to put them in for as many exams as possible as early as possible.

It is SO helpful - thank you very much indeed. My daughter may differ from many in that she is not going to do it early nor is she keen on a music career or even A'level, but just genuinely loves music and doesn't want to give it up. I think she would stick with it and do okay if she pursued the additional GCSE but I don't want to set her up to fail nor do I want to stifle enthusiasm . . . the joys of parenting!



I used to love doing exams. Many many years ago I took as many "O" levels as I possibly could, several early, then did as many "A" levels as I could, did brilliantly in them, and went off to university only to discover that many of my fellow students seemed much better educated than me . I had been busy passing exams while they had been learning all about the world around them! Perhaps I had this in mind when I wrote before. I was also thinking of my daughter's cello teacher, who is Italian, and believes that the English are obsessed with exams. She hopes to produce well rounded musicians who will enjoy their cello playing for life and is frustrated that some of her pupils seek to move quickly from exam to exam only to give up once they achieve Grade 8.

My children's (independent) school does not generally enter children early for any GCSE's even though it is academically selective and has its share of young "bright kids, capable of top marks". I do not entirely agree with their reasons. Nevertheless, the children are not suddenly less bright and capable as a result of this. They are only deprived of one opportunity to demonstrate their ability, when many others are available. They are prevented from rushing on to the next exam, that's true, but as I know from my own experience education is about more than that. The school does seek to identify and stretch the most able in each subject and perhaps feel better able to do this outside of the constraints of an exam syllabus. I don't know! I do know it would be a bit disappointing if the only way they could think of to stretch these most able students was to put them in for as many exams as possible as early as possible.
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I could not agree more with this and I speak as someone who has 15 O' levels of which nearly half are in useless subjects and 6 A' levels which led me to university at the ridiculous age of 16 where I promptly felt decidedly parochial when I met people who had more balanced, less exam-focused lives. I am incredibly wary of endless exams, in music and life, and I was practically cheering when I read your post.

The biggest reason why independent, and state schools don't enter GCSEs early is that they don't count in league tables. They won't admit this publicly, but that is the reason.