Following another thread I have posted, I have some new strings ready to try on daughters violin, Larsen Tzigane strings which have only recently come onto the market. Daughter had new violin 6/7 months ago and has Obligatos on at present which are nice, but thought we would try these for comparison. We don't like Dominants too much and Evahs are a little brash. Teacher however has always used a combination of G and D Eudoxa, A Soft Dominant with Hill E string, and thinks Gut strings would be the perfect strings for daughters violin. She is a grade 7/8 player, but we have steered clear of gut strings because of their reputation of being unstable re. tuning and as daughter is only 13, although not bad at tuning, have always gone for the more predictable and stable option of synthetic strings. Who still uses gut strings? Have you compared tonal qualities against the newer synthetic strings on the market, and if so, how do you feel they compare? Are they as unstable as some people make out? Are the new Passione strings better than the Eudoxa?

I don't use them, but my teacher does. She says that her strings go out of tune very easily indeed, compared to mine which just don't move!!

Hi, I use Eudoxa A D and G with an Olive gold E, and have been very happy with them. They do go out of tune fairly easily, and take a little while to settle in when replaced, but the main problem seems to be that they respond very quickly to a change in humidity and temperature. However - the sound is good and warm, they are good for getting a variety of expression, and you get very confident at tuning quickly which I think is an advantage. I haven't tried the Passione strings but I might when my playing is better as they are rather more expensive. I like the Olive E very much, very sweet and pure sound - at least in the hands of an expert!
Hope that helps,
N

You've chosen synthetics for all the right reasons. If you like Obligatos why change? There are plenty of far more important things for promising young players to be concerned about than minor differences between string brands, in my opinion.

As you yourself and others have said, yes, gut strings are unstable. However, if there's a good reason to use them (e.g. for the authentic sound in Baroque music) then why not give them a go? Be warned though, it's difficult to produce a big sound using gut strings, and this might be inappropriate for some situations such as playing in a modern symphony orchestra. For this reason alone, it's never occurred to me to do a direct comparison of tonal qualities.

I used Eudoxas and found them very unstable and also take a long time to settle (not that it makes much difference when they have). They're really not appropriate for most students, not least because it gets very frustrating in ensembles. The closest strings I could find are Larsens, which have some of the tonal qualities of gut but loads more projection and stability.

I used olivs for a while and found them just as stable as anything else once they broke in.

I understand that the Passione strings are particularly stable, too.

That said, Discopants makes (as usual) an excellent point - if you like the obligatos, leave them alone!

Obligato strings are about as close as you will get to gut, but without the hassle of gut. If you like them, stick with them. They also speak quicker - gut strings are slower in their response and even require slightly different bow pressures in higher positions as a result. That takes some getting used to in itself.

I did use Eudoxas on my fiddle for a while, but opened the case one day to find that the E string had just broken while it was in the case overnight. That can be another problem with them, and makes them an even more expensive habit!

(bumping an old thread.......)
I fitted a set of Pirastro Passione to a new fiddle a week or so ago. These strings sound and feel fantastic, and break-in time/stability seem on a par with most synthetics.

Shhhh - Discopants! I've only just made peace with dominants... now you've got me thinking about the Passione....

Do they sound really gut like?

Allan the string addict.

Oops

I used to use gut years ago but had problems with A strings breaking and swapped to Dominants as they are good and solid and strong. I always recommend them to pupils for these reasons, and even on a cheap or little violin they make a big difference to the sound.

However....

I got hold of a set of Passione...
wow!
I totally love the feel and sound, but I hate the E string, it goes like rusty old cheese wire so I have a gold Olive E now and I reckon I've found the perfect combination (for me anyway).
I also use the rosin with the gold flecks in it and it's made a dramatic difference too - again, even with cheap old battered school violins.

My daughter loves the Eudoxas - she's 13 and has had no problems with them.

M.x

Funny how people's perceptions and opinions vary: I think the Passione E string is really nice, but don't like the Oliv E at all!

But sometimes it's not people's perceptions alone, so much as a set of strings that sounds great on one violin just not suiting another at all. Dominants do not suit my fiddle at all. I have been exploring Obligatos for a while, but am still not wholly satisfied with the sound. I've never used gut, mostly because of their reputation for instability.

Discopants - how are they volume and response wise, compared to dominants? Just wondering...

I use obligatos but I am not sure about theE string. I have had the strings on for 6 weeks and they sound great apart from E.

Obligatos aren't gut

Nobody said they were.

probably wreck the Passione E with my sweaty little fingers!

Hi Allan, to be honest, I wouldn't like to make a detailed comparison without doing an A/B on the same instrument, which I haven't done.
I find the Passiones have a really rich, complex sound with a nice bit of "sizzle" and plenty of volume without being brash. Responsiveness is excellent. Bit of a weird thing going on with the G-string peg end silk winding: Pirastro deliberately make it very long (to stop the string chafing in the pegbox, apparently), so if you have anything close to a "normal" string length, the silk winding will be over the top nut when you first fit the string. Took about 4 days for the string to stretch enough to take the winding behind the nut. This doesn't affect the sound, I just find it a bit annoying.


Violinhero, what is it about the Obligato E that you don't like? Do you have the plain steel E or the gold plated one?

Hi Discopants - this sounds odd. I haven't had it with my Passione strings. I'm on my 2nd set and not had this with the G.

does anyone use gut E strings, or are they just too much hassle?

Hi Miffy, this property of Passione is quite well documented (including on Pirastro's website), as you can see if you do a bit of Googling. If you don't have this situation, then I suspect the string length on your fiddle is a bit longer than average (unless Pirastro have changed the winding length recently).

Hi Discopants - yes my violin is a big old French warhorse, so maybe that's why. I battle with it a bit as I'm quite small, but love it anyway!

M.x

I'm pretty sure the Passione E is exactly the same string as the Pirastro Gold E that many people use with Dominants etc (this string is actually plain steel, the "gold" is just a brandname, as you probably know).

I have the gold-plated E string, and cannot fault it.

I use the Olive gold E. I find it very different in sound and feel to the Passione one. Feels thicker and a lovely tone, no squeak. My luthier recommended the change to me, he also wasn't happy with the Passione E.
It's all down to personal taste though and what suits your violin.

The olive gold E really is gold (plated) unlike the pirastro gold E, which isn't. Confusing, isn't it! I agree that these gold-plated strings in general can sound quite nice, but they have an annoying tendency to "whistle" (which is why not many makers fit them to new instruments: people tend to blame the fiddle!).

I have them on my baroque violin. I find they behave quite well once they have adjusted to a particular room. The plain gut ones hold their tuning very well, but the copper-wound G string can be quite unstable.

The E strings, not surprisingly, have the shortest life, but they are also the cheapest and they are double length so I can get two for the price of one. I like the Dlugolecki strings - the varnished ones last much longer than unvarnished and don't get whiskery.

A gut E string sounds gorgeous - it is so sweet. I am sometimes tempted to put one on my modern violin but I would have to alter the bridge and am a bit reluctant to do so.

Incidentally I have always worn specs to play, originally just plain glass, ever since seeing people being hit in the eye by breaking E strings. The frayed end whips hard! The person without specs ended up in casualty though fortunately there was no lasting damage.

I don't think you'd need to do anything to your bridge in order to fit a gut E to your modern violin, unless it is cut rather low.

Yay! At last there is a plus point for those of us that have to wear glasses all the time!

Currently, I use Tonica for G and D and Wondertone solo for A and E.
Tonica for the low warmth and Wondertone for the brightness and power.
give it a try

I'm digging up this old thread because I still can't decide what to put on my 'baroque' violin.

I like the idea of gut strings but realise that I will use this violin quite rarely and I'm not sure I can face the hassle of constant peg-tuning. Ideally I'd like to find strings that sound like gut but are as stable as synthetics. I know some people are going to say it has to be gut but I'd really like to explore alternatives...

Any ideas? I'm currently sitting in front of the Stringzone site - all of a dither...

W

I know this isn't specifically helpful, but I suspect you will get the hang of the tuning pretty quickly. When I took up the harp I was pretty daunted by all the tuning but it only took me about a week (of tuning 36 strings a day!!!) before I was comfortable with doing it (in E flat at that!) and now it doesn't take very long and I don't think twice about it. So I wouldn't worry about it. Compared to a harp, 4 strings is nothing to worry about, you'll be fine. Just go with the other factors

IF your pegs turn easily without sticking, jumping or slipping then it is quite easy to use gut strings. I find they settle down quite quickly to any given temperature/humidity and are then surprisingly stable. The G string, which is the only overwound string on my violin, goes further out of tune than the rest.

FYI I have a Northern Renaissance Instruments G, Kurschner plain gut D and A, and a Dlugolecki varnished E. The E string is the most prone to breaking but the varnished one lasts much better than unvarnished. Varnished is supposed to sound squeakier but I can't say I noticed the difference in practice, and a fraying unvarnished one certainly sounds worse!

I get them from Bridgewood and Neitzert (though not the NRI G, of course. That is quite an old string now but I like it....)

HTH

OK,
I don't use a baroque violin, I use a 'normal' violin and I play the usual classical repertoire as you all know, but I have decided to 'jump the gun' and give gut a go

I am not going 'all gut', I have ordered a set from 'Gamut Strings' here is the website:
http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/

I will try this set up: a silver wound G string, a plain unwaxed gut D, plain unwaxed gut A and a Goldbrokat E (steel) at first and see how I like it.
I have heard many saying a plain gut E is very very nice so I will keep that in mind and might give it a go in near future.

but for some reason I have become REALLY REALLY curious in plain gut and want to give it a go.
May love it or hate it but will definitely report back and let you all know what I decide, but I won't settle for a verdict for at least a couple of months as I know it is different playing on gut, for a start they are a lot more sensitive to bowing pressure and contact point I have heard! Am really looking forward to experimenting and getting to know them!!!
I love having made the decision not to take anymore exams as now I feel free to 'explore' things not having the 'pressure' that in June or whenever I have 'that deadline' and hence I am not allowed to spend so much of my 'so little' time I have to dedicate to the violin to do what I want and HAVE TO spend it all on exam pieces and certain things to do with exams!!! Now I still do all the stuff that 'teacher' wants me to but I can also have the luxury to roam free and wander off track with other things too

'GUT', here I come

I confess I wimped out and bought a set of Gold Label gut core strings - at least for now. Next step is to get the bridge lowered...

I'll be interested to see what you think, jojo...

W

yes, will let you know Willobie, though like I said I won't 'jump' into any conclusions as I know for a start they take a bit to settle and then I'll have to get used to them (especially with my bowing I heard) but I will enjoy the experience whether I turn out to like them or dislike them

..so is it the waxed or the unwaxed ones that go hairy?

If they weren't hairy, you wouldn't need the wax...

W

probably the unwaxed but I don't know if they go hairy quickly or only if you keep them on the violin for AGES, will let you know Miffy

(I am not the type of person who keeps strings on forever, I change them regularly ie: every 6 to 10 months maximum usually so will let you know if they go hairy in that space of time as the ones I have ordered are unwaxed/unvarnished as they are supposed to sound 'better/less squeaks and that')

I wish mine lasted 6 months

So if they get hairy, can you wax them yourself?

I don't know but I am not going to
I will let you know in good time am looking forward to find all these things out for myself

I have not heard of them going hairy I have to say, I think maybe that happens if you keep them on too long? I don't know!

Varnished/waxed last better than plain. Hairyness is usually caused by wear from the fingers and it also depends a bit how acid the sweat from your fingers is - some people go through strings much more quickly than others.

I find the lower strings last for ages (not that I play my baroque violin) a great deal - by ages I mean that they are about 10 years old . I use a varnished Dlugolecki for the E string and find that also lasts well, but an unvarnished one frayed after a week. i didn't notice any difference in the sound but that might just have been my playing lol.

Check the strings for "whiskers" and carefully trim them off if you see them - a small nail clippers is good for doing this without accidentally snipping the string...

Why didn't you go the whole hog and get a gut "e", jojo? I'd be surprised if the steel one blends, and in any case I would find it difficult to bow on such a mixture. The e string is the cheapest and the gut sounds gorgeous - no need to avoid the open string.

Have fun, anyway, and let us know how you get on.

Thank you for that mcm,
my choice was based after reading experiences and reviews 'out there' (quite a lot of them), it was not just 'plucked' out of thin air the E I have chosen is a goldbrokat E which is supposed (from the reviews I have read) to blend very well with the set I have chosen and apparently many people (classical players) play with a steel E.
Having said that, personal preference at the end prevails: last experiment I went through was the Peter Infeld strings and the reviews I had read 'raved' about their platinum coated E string and I hated it
I sent it in the post to Organistin and she loves it

ps my fingers never sweat at all, they are SO SO dry!

I have a friend who uses Eudoxas, and she is always having trouble with tuning, they do seem to be particularly unstable. By contrast I have Passione G and D strings on my violin, and they are fantastic, stay in tune and sound fab. Only downside is the price!

Ok, my 'tricolore' gut strings from Gamut have arrived today

just 'stuck them on' half an hour ago....

I can't give a 'true' review as they won't show their 'true colours' until they've been played in for a few hours but so far I LOVE THEM....

they are a little louder than my obligatos! how come???

and all these reviews I was reading on how you have to be 'careful' on how you bow on gut strings as they 'behave' differently.....well I've only played half an hour and I can't tell 'really' I am playing on gut (not 'generally' anyway)! is it too early to say???

I mean I can tell as it's 1) MUCH easier to tune 2) kinder on my fingers 3) nicer clearer sound 4) much quicker and precise response......
early days of course but I think I may have been 'converted' hehehehe

I guess the 'careful' when bowing on plain gut strings is probably aimed more at the very beginners as....
...yes, they will be a lot less forgiving to a beginner as for example when you bow very near the bridge as we know you have to bow slower and with increased pressure as otherwise you will produce a horrible sound, well with plain gut you 'really' have to go much slower or the horrible sound will be 100 times worse than with synthetic or wound strings that's what I have noticed with these ones anyway.

I'm glad you like them so much. It's possible that the tension is slightly lower than the Obbligatos, which is allowing the violin to vibrate more freely and making it louder.

Now do yourself a favour and get a gut E so that you can enjoy the whole experience!

yes, the tension is definitely less I think, so it feels anyway, they are 'medium tension' and the G is a 'soft G', and no, I am keeping the goldbrokat E as it sounds absolutely gorgeous (but thanks for the advice )

But that's not the point - you haven't really tried gut strings unless you have a gut E as well.
You can always go back to the goldbrokat afterwards (I must try one myself, on my modern violin).