Hi,

My seven year old has been learning the violin since September. She is doing really well and progressing nicely.
However she is currently borrowing a violin from school (3/4 size) but the problem is it always seems to be out of tune! I tune it for her every day, but within a ten minute practice it is horribly out of tune again. I am assuming this is not normal for a violin (but perhaps it is?) and was wondering if there is something I might be able to do about it! e.g would new pegs help?? or once a violin gets to this stage is it beyond help?

The other thing is, if I am going to have to pay for new pegs, how much would this cost, and would it be worth considering buying a violin for her? How long generally do children stay on 3/4 size?? She is quite tall for her age, probably more like an average 9 year old. If we do decide to go down this route what should we look for and what sort of price would you expect to pay for a good learning violin?

Lots of questions, sorry! any advice much appreciated!

kris

Congratulations to your daughter on her encouraging progress.

As a violin teacher myself I would be delighted if a parent came to me in a similar situation and asked for advice about getting a better violin for a promising pupil. Have you spoken to your daughter's teacher? He/she is the best placed to asses your daughter's current instrument and hazard a guess about when would be a good time to go up a size.

This can be a very personal issue, with different teachers having different views - my own personal preference is only to move size when a child will be physically comfortable to make the next technical steps well without falling into bad habits. I am fortunate to have access to a beautiful 7/8 size older instrument which is available for pupils to bridge the gap between a 3/4 and a full (ie ADULT !) size instrument. It is difficult for me to say without knowing your daughter, however I suspect that it will be some years before your daughter will really benefit from a larger instrument, however a better instrument (and bow) at this stage may very well provide an excellent platform for her progress to blossom.

You don't say what sort of violin she has at the moment, however, a good improver instrument at this stage can make a huge difference. You shouldn't and probably don't need to be providing anything too expensive - this is a seven year old, at school with other young children and I would not recommend anything that you would worry about excessively.

Talk to your daughter's teacher and if she feels that your daughter would benefit from a better instrument, ask the teacher for their suggestion for which violin would be most suitable to enable your daughter to make good progress with for the time that she needs that size. Stentor Conservatoire, Gliga and Yitamusic T or M19 models , or Andreas Zeller are generally good improver instruments that my promising 3/4 size grade2-5 pupils have all got on well with.

Again, pick your teacher's brain, it may well be that they know of another child with a good, suitable instrument which will soon be outgrown and which might be ideal for your daughter. Ask your local specialist string shop too, at least one of my local luthiers has an excellent rental scheme for smaller size improvers' instuments.

One more thought..... It is just possible that your daughter's violin may only be a 3/4 because that is all that was available even though a half size might have been more suitable. Do talk carefully to your daughter's teacher and ask what they would recommend if this was their own child.

Sorry for the long post...... it must be the time of night...

You might find that the luthier has a "buy-back" scheme for smaller sized violins. When your child needs to move up a size our luthier will buy back the old one for 75% of the price you paid for it.

Hi,

Thanks for your replies. I will speak to my daughters teacher and find out whether she thinks a new violin would benefit her progress. We have a beautiful full sized violin that was her great grandfathers but it sounds like it will be a good few years before she is ready for this.

Another question (sorry!) The teacher has put some tape on her violin where my daughter needs to put her fingers for first and second finger position. On a couple of strings this is fine, but on a couple the notes are slightly out. My daughter can also hear that they are slightly wrong, and I have tried suggesting to her that the tape is probably meant as a guide and she needs to use her ear to get it exact, but she insists that this is where her teacher has told them to put their fingers. I have got her to play the notes with her eyes closed so that she cannot see the tape, and adjust her finger to get the correct pitch and she can do this perfectly.

I imagine the tape has been put on more because she is learning in a group of 4, and some children obviously won't have the benefit of having a piano at home and someone who can tune the instrument for them. The last thing I want to do is undermine her teacher by contradicting what she has said, or by suggesting that where the tape is is incorrect, but I also don't want my daughter to get into the habit of playing slightly out of tune. How can I tackle this??

I don't want to come across as a fussy, picky mother, but also naturally don't want unneccessary obstacles in the way of my daughters progress if they can be easily rectified.

I expect that you'd need to pay in the region of £150-£300 for one of the suggestions minstrel has made. Whether that would be worthwhile depends on how long she is likely to spend on that size of instrument. Recalling desparately, don't children that age grow out of violins about once a year to once every two years?

Anyway, have you tried putting chalk on the pegs? That's a much less expensive fix, although you do need to be comfortable in taking the strings on and off - I guess one at a time is better / safer.



Could you try moving the tape slightly? I think it might be difficult for your daughter to believe that you know what you're talking about over her teacher, even though you clearly do.

Try peg paste on the violin - as far as size is concerned I have only ever once had an eight year old big enough for a full size violin, for a 7 year old a 1/4 would be far more common that a 3/4. As for the tapes, I'd be inclined to see if you can't just shift the tape slightly when your daughter is asleep.

Liz

Yes, one at a time is important. If you take them all off together you can run into all sorts of problems! Lead pencil can also be a good "lubricator", but make sure that it is lead and not graphite.

It sounds as though your daughter doesn't need the tape at all! It might be, if she is learning in a group, that the teacher has taped all the violins, but there comes a stage when tape can become an obstacle rather than a learning aid. If your daughter can pitch the notes accurately with her eyes closed, as you say she can, she would probably be better with the tape removed.

If the tapes go across the fingerboard at right angles but the notes are in tune on some strings and not on others (assuming at that moment all the strings are in tune) then I would question the condition of the strings.

A new set of strings and some peg paste might work wonders.

edit: another thought - check the bridge is at right angles to the strings as well

Thanks for that, perhaps the string condition is something I need to question with the teacher then.

The problem with hiring an instrument from school is that no matter how good the instrument, at some point in its life it has probably been mistreated, or at least not treated with the care I insist my daughter gives it!! and no doubt this has an effect on its sound if it is knocked about too much.

The correct treatment for pegs is peg paste if they're slipping, and dry soap if they're sticking. You might need a judicious combination of the 2 to get the pegs working really well. Whatever you apply, give the pegs a right good old turn after application (maybe 20 turns or so) to get it bedded in. (without the string attached of course!)
Peg paste is as cheap as chips and readily available, so I can't understand why anyone would want to mess around with chalk and pencil lead!
Chalk is also slightly abrasive so its long term/extensive use will make peg fit worse.

I don't know about anyone else but we're finding the cold weather has played havoc with our twos instrments.

I've actually got two types of paste

W E Hill paste, for pegs that have ceased to wind smoothly (looks like a lipstick) and Hidersine paste in a round block, which is used for pegs that slip.

Both pastes will probably last my lifetime and beyond, so when I'm too old to play I'll visit the forum and find out who might like them

Yes, I agree, chalk is one of the worst compounds to use on slipping pegs. As well as being abrasive, all that white grit looks unsightly.

Where can I buy these, please? I can't get them at our local music shop, so is there somewhere on line that can supply?

Edit: And do you find it works well?

Stringmail sell it.
Bear in mind though, that peg paste and soap are used to make well-fitting pegs work properly. They won't solve problems arising from poorly-fitting pegs.

Which sadly is something a lot of people try to cure with peg paste and soap. Many of my (child) pupils have violin pegs that are pushed so far into the holes, most of the wood sticks out on the other side! When you mention it to them, or their parents, they still don't seem to take notice. The next week someone will have chalked or soaped them, in the vain hope it will sort the problem out.

Eventually, some of them do realise the only solution is to spend a few quid and have new pegs fitted properly.

I've bought my daughter the Stentor II instruments new online from Normans (the first from Ebay) for about £70 and always managed to sell (on Ebay) the previous size for nearly the same amount as I have paid for the next size up. So we have gone through the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 without it costing anything really and now she is almost ready for a full size at about the time the Stentor II doesn't seem good enough anymore (grade 6 standard). It is only now that I intend to spend some proper money on her instrument. The Stentors have served her well.