Can anyone answer this?
Do you need to be confirmed in the church of england before you can take bread/wine in mass?
I know you cant in the catholic church, not before your first holy communion. But whats the case in the CofE.


Please dont turn this into an argument about whats right or wrong, and if you dont believe in either, then you dont need to post.

Thanks,
HC

If you are not confirmed, you just ask for a blessing when you go up

My understanding is that confirmed Roman Catholics are welcome to receive the sacraments in C of E churches but not the other way round.

Bx

I understand that, but my question is (i made my OP a little cofusing)

''Can Protestants take bread and wine in the Protestant Church without first being confirmed in the Protestant Church''

I agreee with both replies. Feel free to PM, HC, but are you considering it too?

And the answer to your latest question, to the best of my knowledge, is no.

The (CofE) church I attend always says that visitors who would normally take communion in their own church are welcome to do so (regardless of denomination). However if you are CofE then you are meant to be baptised and confirmed before you take communion in your own church.

I was just wandering mainly, as I usually only attend Evensong, not Eucharist.

Ah right. Well, no - you do need to have been confirmed.

Most Churches still invite people to go up (though I tend to hang about in the pews instead, which can be a little awkward, so I also prefer Evensong) but have some sort of 'signal' that you're not to take communion. In my local Church, for example, taking up the service booklet indicates that you only wish to recieve a blessing. In other Churches it is enough to simply make sure you keep you hands by your sides, and shake you head slightly when offered wine.

If unsure ask someone before the service, many Churches now also seem to have greeters to ensure anyone feeling lost knows what is going on.

You need to be a confirmed member of either the Anglican church or of "a church in good standing with the Anglican Commune".



If you wish to go to the altar to receive a blessing, it is usual to either keep your arms crossed when the Blessed Sacrament is offered (preferably with hands on shoulders), or to hold a hymn book/service book in your hands.

Most anglican churches will say ' those who are communicant members of their own church are welcome to receive communion".. Not all.

The Anglican church is reasonably liberal with regard to communicants from other trinitarian churches taking part. However, the RC church dislikes people from other denominations taking communion with them, and similarly it is frowned upon by the RC church for RCs to take communion elsewhere, even if the church giving it is happy with it.

In the Catholic church, First Communion usually happens before confirmation, and certain Anglican churches have started to follow this pattern. However, it's still the norm that you need to be confirmed in the CofE before taking communion.

Feel free to PM me if I can help with anything!

When talking about Protestant groups you can only ever really talk in generalities because there are so many of them. In the case of the C of E things are even more confused because some groups (particularly 'Anglo-Catholics' and High Church types) believe that transubstantiation occurs and so it is the Body and Blood rather than just the bread and wine which many other Protestants groups would consider it to be. (Technically the C of E hasn't preserved valid Holy Orders and so it remains bread and wine.)

Most Protestant churches, properly from the Catholic perspective ecclesial communities, practice open Communion to one degree or another i.e. they'll allow anyone who wishes to receive to do so. You will probably find variation in Anglican parishes, although Catholics would generally be allowed to receive by the Anglican Church. As far as I know for a Catholic it would never be permissible because it would manifest a unity which does not truly exist.

Interestingly the Catholic Church has no objections to it's members receiving Communion at an Orthodox Church, even one not in union with Rome, although because of the position most of the Orthodox take it would only be done in cases of emergency, near death etc. To further confuse things though many of the Eastern Rites distribute Blessed Bread at the end of the Liturgy which is from the loaf that the bread to be consecrated was taken from and anyone present can have some.

I am not confirmed and take communion in a Chrch of England Church. That is because I grew up attending a methodist church and as I understood it there so long as you believed in Jesus and a Christian way of life you were free to take communion. I therefore checked this out with our priest in charge and she said it was not a problem and if I felt I wanted to take communion then i could and there was no suggestion that I should get confirmed in order to do so. I think though that in the general run of things a first communion in an Anglican church is usually immediately after confirmation.

Yes, some clergy do knowingly give the Blessed Sacrament to those who are unconfirmed. There was a television programme on a number of months ago where an Evangelical church in a rather grotty inner-city setting was actively encouraging unconfirmed teenagers to receive the Sacrament. I thought this was a good idea.


Indeed it is.

I am sometimes involved with a very catholic CofE parish, and they have the policy of anyone "in good standing" with any trinitarian church being allowed to take communion. This seems to leave rather a lot to one's discretion...

I think this is because to generalise: Protestants simply believe in the symbolism of the wine and the blood i.e. repeating what Jesus did at the last supper but Catholics believe that the bread and wine miraculously transform into the actual body and blood of Christ at the moment the communion is taken.

In general I would agree with the advice to ask. I spent many a year lurking in the pews or feeling conspicuous having a blessing when I actually wanted to receive communion but wasn't keen on offending the church's sesnsibilities. It would have felt duplicitous to have taken it without them knowing I wasn't confirmed but without knowing their standpoint I ended up not taking it at all and feeling embarrased at standing out. So ask. If you feel strongly that you wish to take it even without being confirmed and you are known within the church community there may not be a problem. If you don't ask you'll never know...

I'm guessing you're not Catholic. We don't dislike people receiving Communion, in fact in an ideal world everyone would be good Catholics and receiving Communion regularly. However when we receive Communion it is indicative of a submission and agreement to all that the Church holds to be true, most Protestants don't do that unfortunately, otherwise they'd be Catholics, so they should not be receiving Communion in a Catholic Church. And it's more than frowned upon for a Catholic to do so with another faith community (Sister Churches excepted).



Common misconception actually, it doesn't transform it transubstantiates. The form, or accidents, remain the same but the substance is changed.

Sorry if i got it wrong it IS however what I was told in training courses for my primary school RE co-ordinator's job a few years back. I'm afraid i don't really understand what this means. Can you explain more fully in simple terms please? I am fascinated by the variations between religious belief but have to admit I probably know less about Catholicism than I do Islam or Judaism ...

"Dislike" and "frowned upon" were merely my choice of words. I realise that my post did sound anti-catholic, which wasn't my intention at all. However, I think I remain correct in my general gist of "RCs do not take communion with other denominations and other denominations do not take communion in RC churches", do I not?

Basically the form remains the same, so however you looked at the external appearence/taste/texture etc it still seems like bread and wine. But the substance, what it really is, is altered to become the Body and Blood of Our Lord. The Compendium of the Catechism defines it as:



(The numbers after the question are references to the full Catechism if you want more detail it's on the Vatican's website, and it'll probably do a much better job at explaining it than I could.)



I think it would be truer to say Catholics should not receive Communion in the parishes of other denominations and members of other denominations should not receive in a Catholic Church, however there are exceptions e.g. Communion with the Orthodox being allowed by the Catholic Church but not by the Orthodox, and certain very specific cases where members of other denominations may be admitted to Communion in the Catholic Church. But yes, that's more or less it.

The anglican church that I attend does a catholic style first communion for the kids at the age of 7ish - which is really good, because the majority of the congregation take communion except the very little ones and the youngsters feel more involved and they do attend classes similar to the catholic ones prior to taking it.

My Dad was never confirmed and the first time he took communion was when my gran was in hospital and the priest came round one Sunday evening, Dad explained that he wasn't confirmed and the priest said that with adults who regularly worship - which my Dad did, they weren't concerned anymore.

Is it considered important from a theological standpoint that the liquid taken at eucharist be wine, ie, an alcoholic drink made from grapes or is the act itself enough?
The reason I ask is that an evangelical inner city church in my town gives cordial or grape juice because of the large proportion of the congregation that are either Muslim converts (converted to christianity from Islam), come from a Muslim country where drink was prohibited or are people who have had problems with alcohol. Is this a common thing?

Traditionally, I think the free churches have used non-alcoholic juice or cordial for communion, so it's maybe not so unusual.

I had a school friend at high school who was a Baptist, and I remember she used to have something like ribena at her communion. Incidentally she also invited me to go to her church, but said she wouldn't be allowed to come to mine - which seemed odd to me. I don't think this was in the context of a communion service.

As a Catholic, I have always been told that I must not take communion in any other denominational Church, including the C of E. It's the same if any other denomination visits the Catholic Church, they can't take communion with us either.

I use the terms 'they' and 'us' loosely of course.....

Ladies and gentlemen, this is not ballroom dancing or dinner party etiquette! Jesus gave few outright commands, and very, very few of those relate to the HOW of formal religious observance rather than the WHAT and WHY of discipleship.

So tell me again, if communion is the sealing of the covenant of forgiveness, what is the justification for limiting access to forgiveness?

If you are a Christian, then taking part in communion is something that Jesus commands, however much this or that church might like to prohibit it.

Taking part in the sacraments of a religion that you have no faith in is a curious hobby, but as long as churches offer communion in public worship, and not in a closed upper room for invited guests, the church's part is simply to urge serious consideration before taking communion, and pray for grace.

If it is wrong for a person to sincerely misunderstand the availability of communion at a public service, then the fault is with the church for changing the circumstances under which communion is offered, and not with the believer, and so I believe that public communion is an implicit invitation to all those present.

Gives a whole new meaning to the concept of open communion!

For Catholics, and Orthodox, it must have a certain alcohol content otherwise it isn't valid. Given that all Christian groups are in some way descended/related to the Sister Churches it would make sense if all Christian groups took the same view, but obviously it hasn't stopped them on a lot of other matters in the past so...

I was brought up in the Methodist church where the table of the Lord was , and I believe still is, open to all.
When on holiday at the home of a friend whose father was an anglo-catholic priest he assured me I was welcome to take communion in his church.

In France I work in a Catholic school and feel that as a Christian I should take part in the Christian celebrations with the staff and pupils of the school. They all automatically assumed I was a Catholic. However at first I went to mass without taking communion. This was noticed by some of the children.I then approached the head teacher who at that time was someone who had started training for the priesthood and then given up to become a teacher. He said he could see no reason why I should not communicate alongside my Christian colleagues. I then spoke to another English friend, an Anglican who I knew took communion in our local church. She said rather evasively that she thought the parish priest would be "understanding".

I didn't feel I could approach this particular parish priest. However, now, when I go to mass I do participate in the communion. No one has ever challenged this though I am sure most people now know that I was not brought up as a Catholic.

I respect the Catholic tradition and regard myself as a sort of "guest" at communion. I expect one day I will discuss this with our new parish priest but am not ready to do so yet.

I feel this is a delicate question and I think it is understandable that different Christian traditions have different customs.

Actually he gave quite a few. For example he said to the Apostles what you bind on Earth shall be considered bound in Heaven and what you loose on Earth shall be considered loose in Heaven. We are also told in the New Testament in the First Letter of Saint Paul to the Corinthians that:



Now from the Catholic view we're perfectly aware that many Protestants groups consider it to be purely symbolic, hence they do no recognise the Body of Our Lord present in the Eucharist. Furthermore one should be in the state of grace (without mortal sin) to receive Communion regardless of what religion you are, Catholics have the Sacrament of Confession, given that in many Protestant group this is underused/completely ignored, and that even if they were using the correct form for the Sacrament their ministers would lack the jurisdiction to give valid absolution, it's difficult, if not impossible, for them to be in that state.

You fundamentally misunderstand, it is not limiting access to forgiveness, anyone who ascribes to the teaching of the Church and who wishes to come into Communion with them may do so. There is no limit to that, but there are rules on the way in which it should happen. They should, for example, be Baptised with a valid Trinitarian formula and have received Confession.

So just because something happens in public anyone is allowed to join in? Do you run onto the pitch to join in when you're at a Premier League football match, or play with the orchestra at every concert you go to? I mean it is most definitely played in public, so logically anyone who wants to take part in it should be allowed to do so. But you're not part of the team and the rules say 11 men, so what is it about the rules of a game of football which makes them more respected than those of another Faith? The Church's part is determined by the Church in question, not by you or someone of another denomination who has choosen to attend a Mass.

In some ways I agree with you actually. The practice of the Church has been that those of the Catholic faith were admitted to Communion, whereas those of different faiths were not. Now the fact some Protestants groups have changed that does put them at fault. But it is the person who eats and drinks judgement on themselves, they should be aware of the rules before receiving Communion in another Church.

I could kiss you! You quoted exactly what I hoped you might quote! Keep reading, but read more! Jesus is not giving a command right here, but an explanation of a privilege - one that depends on certain conditions...

By the way, the words interpreted here as future tense are in fact future perfect - "what you bind here will be the things that have been bound in heaven". That is just a matter of Greek grammar.

Yes, Paul urges self-reflection...and this is what you will hear in many protestant churches (the original question was about protestant churches). Don't you think Paul refrains from judgement because Jesus himself already said that judgement was not his purpose, and that in any case bad actions carry their judgement in themselves?

Running onto a football pitch? But we don't go to church to play footy or even to talk about the rules or our favourite clubs - every Christian goes to church to worship, commune with, and act with God.

Rules have their place, and the people who make them do so with every good intention, but let us remember our first priority - as the teacher of the law admitted after Jesus summarized the commandments, refusing to say that one was more important than another: "To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

I don't suppose it ever occurred to you there might be a reason he had left training for the Priesthood? He was wrong and anyone who tells you otherwise is also wrong. You should not be receiving Communion in a Catholic Church unless you are a Catholic. And you are showing a complete lack of respect for the Catholic Church and the Real Presence of the Eucharist if you continue to do so.

I'm sorry you have been told the wrong thing in the past, unfortunately France has had problems with liberal and other destructive tendencies among many in the Catholic Church. The fact you have not spoken to the Priest about this suggests to me that you are not entirely comfortable with it yourself, you should speak to the Priest about it, alternatively look up the Church's position on it independently.

It's not a delicate question at all. It's really simple the Church is crystal clear about it, if you claim to respect the Catholic tradition then you will not continue to violate it by receiving Communion, it manifests a unity which unfortunately does not presently exist.



Blah, blah, blah.. yep I'm sure that's the nonsense they've been feeding you about why Catholics have it wrong, and why in fact the thoughts of Luther/Calvin/<insert heretic of choice> about what God wanted/the way the Church should be run etc was all right whereas the Catholic Church is all wrong. If you're going to try to overturn 2000 years of Christian tradition you're going to have to do an awful lot better than that.

Have you never read St Paul? I mean he does make quite a few 'judgments' in case you're not aware of it.

Yet still when you are at an away game you respect the rules of that stadium? You respect the rules of the game. It is a public act, but when you're a visitor you don't just do what you want or necessarily what you would normally do at home, especially if there are rules against it. If you are going to respect the rules in such trivial things as that then you should also respect the rules on matters of faith, especially when it comes to dealing with other faiths.

I'm not sure what version of the Bible you've been reading. KJV Matthew 36-38:



The first is to love the Lord thy God, he mentions the second as being to love thy neighbour stating in Matt. 40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.". In the Catholic Church we understand it is not loving to admit people to Communion when they do not realise the reality of the Real Presence and do not accept the totality of the Church's teaching, nor when it is very doubtful for anyone who may not avail themselves of the absolution available to be in the state of Grace suitable for reception of Communion. The Church's rules on the reception of Holy Communion are based on what Our Lord calls the two greatest of the 10 Commandments.

Not Matthew, but Mark 12: 32~33 - that is, not Jesus' reply, but the response to that reply by somebody who had a considerably interest in correct interpretation of the law. But of course, the teacher of the law responded that way because he had actually listened to what was being said.

Oo-er H_C! What have you started here...?

So does your ecclesial community not accept Matthew?

In fact it wouldn't make any difference because it's also in Mark:



As I stated quite clearly in my last post the rules which were established in the earliest days of the Church regarding the reception of Communion are both to ensure the correct reverence and respect for the Body and Blood of Our Lord and to prevent others who are not aware/are in outright disagreement with the teachings of the Church from taking that judgment upon themselves without being aware or prepared for it. They are in direct accord with what Our Lord tells us are the two greatest/most important Commandments, just what is your problem with that?

hello_cello, if any of the answers in this thread have been useful, might I suggest that you download the thread now, before it's removed

No!

Should we really be turning this into an argument of what's right? H-C specifically requested that we did not. Should we really be going down a line of protestant vs catholic? Hasn't this caused enough trouble along the way? This is the bit about religion that I don't like that many fractions of the Faith communities fight among themselves when it comes down to the "how's" of worshipping God. Jews, Christians and Muslims share a common background but this is not always recognised. Creating an "us" and a "them" is highly dangerous.

If we are arguing the why's and wherefores and setting Christian against Christian are we truly honouring these commandments?

I have the greatest respect for the differences between the faith communities. I think that in the grand scheme of things the "how"
of worship is less important than a common belief in God especially in a climate where fewer and fewer young people are following any kind of religious or moralistic teaching.

Please dont turn this into an argument...
So I think this is correct:

Although i am Baptised in the CofE, when I attend a CofE communion service, I shouldn't take the sacrament, even though we as CofE Protestants, we believe in Consubstanciation, not transubstanciation.

Is that correct?

You are wrong. Methodists can and do!! Methodism stemmed from C of E so there seems to be a mutual respect and understanding of each other. Quite often CofE and methodist communities collaborate to a mutual advantage. So often they will take communion in each other's churches without issue. C of E usually use alcoholic wine and wafters whereas methodists prefer proper bread but not alcohloic wine - Traditional Methodists don't drink at all. However, more modern methodists tend to agree that a little alcohol is ok so long as it's not to excess. It's all to do with allowing nothing or no-one to take control of your body as it belongs to God. Also some of the early Christians were getting drunk at their communal dinners before sharing the bread and wine so were not allowed to drink so that they were in a fit state to take communion. it's in a letter from St Paul to the Corrinthions (Can't remember more than that sorry - it was from a sermon preached in my home church some 20+ years ago....)

I think there are many Cof E churches which go along with this policy. Our Scottish Episcopalian Church is the same. If someone genuinely wishes to receive communion - even without baptism / confirmation, what right does the priest have to refuse it? How can they see into the heart of the would-be communicant and decide who does and who does not have access to the gift?

Having said that, there are variations, and it probably is best to ask - particularly if your church is a High Church.

I think that's something to ask the priest in charge.... Traditionally you wouldn't but as mentioned above often regular adult worshippers are allowed.

If you have strong feelings about WHY you want to and if these are grounded in the CofE beliefs AND if the church is more on the evangelical side than high Cof E you might find you can.

Ours is a small parish church, in the village I live in - so I dont think it would be a high church.

Ours is a small village church too. H_C. Just ask and then you'll know. I take it you'd really like to be a participant and hence the question so you must have good reasons.

In a Cof E church you are only able to partake in communion if you have been confirmed, however, everyone is allowed to go up and receive a blessing.

I grew up with going to a C& E church and I am actually confirmed, however, for about 5 years now I have been attending a Methodist church.

For a Methodist church, everyone is invited to come up and receive communion whether you are a member of their church or not, this includes children.

The other difference is that in a C of E church you all drink from the one cup, whereas Methodist you have little individual classes ( much more hygenic)

ET

If someone is going to challenge the practices and teachings of the Catholic Church then I will defend them regardless, and if someone has been misinformed about something like reception of Communion which is so important to the life of the Church then that misinformation should be corrected, that is clearly in accord with the various examples set forth in the Bible.

It is not a matter of creating a them and us, at one point there was an "us" in the Church some in their 'wisdom' decided to cause rifts in that, therefore a them was created, and unfortunately that's something that many of the groups (and indeed the people in them) have continued to do to this day. If the example of the Anglicans shows us anything it is that a house divided against itself will not stand, to this day it is still fracturing and breaking into components and competing groups.

Look again at the Bible, we are taught in the letters how to solve disputes among other Christians. If someone is wrong then it is right that they be corrected. Allowing them to continue on the wrong path in ignorance of that error is not an act of kindness to a neighbour but the opposite.

Yes I'd forgotten that last one!! However ET I am NOT confirmed and DO take communion in CofE church and that's ok with the priest in charge. Actually we are getting a new priest soon as the other moved on and I'm not sure I'd even mention this to the new priest as it's been ok all this time. Is it different because I come from a Methodist background and didn't grow up CofE?

Sorry if I appeared divisive, my intention was rather to say that division seems unjustified, but DawnE made the point much more gracefully!

I agree, ask...generally in a protestant church, baptism and confirmation are the two requirements, but on the one hand, sometimes documents are required to prove your claims; while on the other hand sometimes only a statement of baptism or belief is required.

Japanese churches have customs that come as a major surprise to westerners living here, even to those who supposedly belong to the same denomination, but patience brings understanding - on both sides.

My husband is Catholic and always takes communion in my C of E church - where I don't though because I'm not confirmed. His priest knows this and is happy with it - and he was happy for us to be married there too.

I actually suppose it is because you are never asked to prove if you have been confirmed, it is just assumed that you are if you go up to receive the bread and wine. I can remember my brother in law telling me years ago he had gone up and received the bread and wine in a C of E church and he wasn't confirmed.

As you know though in the Methodist they make a point of inviting all up to receive, and state it doesn't matter if you are not a member (equivalent to a C of E confirmed person)

I actually think that the Methodist has it right, as everyone received the bread and wine at the last supper, didn't they? There was none of that you have got to learn all these things before you receive.

ET