I've just been looking through some more repertoire with a view to starting work on a classical sonata. I hadn't looked at the first movement of the Pathetique with a view to playing it for about 2 years. Then it was just impossible. Now I'm looking at it and thinking "I could playthat "! I guess I'm getting better!

That's a good feeling! I'm going through the opposite at the moment - "I used to be able to play that", but working hard on my technique to drag myself back up. Have entered for the Bach Prelude and Fugue class at my local Festival and planning to have a go at DipABRSM later in the year.

Pathetique should not be too much trouble for you, Rob. I don't think its G8?

I've been struggling with it for years. I could do the 2nd and 3rd movements OK but never mastered the 1st (I never really succeeded with the section at bar 168 etc). Just recently I've started to make a more determined effort and its coming together (along with 3rd of Moonlight). It really is worth the effort as it is a brilliant piece.

Mole

Its definitely beyond g8 Its on the diploma list, and not one to be taken lightly - but certainly at grade 8 level you could do the first learning of it - ready to put it away and pull it back up again later.

Oh yes it is ... and then some.

I was going to try to offer some help here ... but bar 168? If you can manage bars 1-4 then the section 169-> is no different. or did you mean 165-168 (and therefore 157-160 as well)? Or do our editions have different bar numbers (I am quoting the AB edition here)?

The Allegro abounds in tricky corners that are easy to muddle through, but take masses of work to play really well. For example 83-88 and similar passages.

But I think you'll eventually find that the un-flashy Grave is the hardest part of all. It demands great rhythmic accuracy and control of tone which are both harder to achieve at a slow tempo. It also need s a fine legato, and precision pedalling.


I could have told you that! Presumably mastering Petrarch SOnnet 123 was not sufficient to prove it to yourself?

I have also been able to play the 2nd & 3rd movements for 2 to 3 decades, but never well. It was the 1st movement that really spooked me before and now doesn't and, as others have pointed out, it is listed for the Dip, with good reason.


I have been thinking about this and strangely the answer is no, it wasn't and isn't sufficient to prove it to myself. As for why: Firstly, I don't think of myself as having mastered it yet. Secondly, not wishing to denigrate anyones (particularly my own relatively modest) achievements, it's as though being able to play a particular piece of music, including the Petrarch Sonnet, feels almost like a bit of sleight of hand; a learned trick with no more merit than a performing seal. It feels as though, at any moment, I might get found out. This (I think) is why, odd though it may seem, I'm not sure that I judge my own progress in terms of what I can do so much as in terms of what I could do with the skills and techniques I have now learned.

I don't have bar numbers marked in mine (Augener) and I've probably miscounted. I don't have the score to hand, but its the growly RH bit in the base, which recurs once. Although I'm religiously observing the marked fingering (not one of my strong points), I seem to have come to a bit of a speed limit (and its only about half speed!). I'm also having (unusual) trouble getting the long RH descent following, which runs into the allegro recap.

It all needs much more practice, but any tips would be welcome.

(I'll try a recount of the bars if its not obvious from the above)

I know the bit you mean. Like most pianistic difficulties it yields quickly to practicing slowly for a few days after resisting for months all attempts to force the pace. When the fingers know exactly where they are going, and the mind can think through the sound at the target speed then the speed will come.

The fingering: 2532 1542 1532 1531 works well enough

Points for attention are:

Clear articulation giving attention to each separate note
LH and RH precisely together
Even though it seems "growly" aim to produce an attractive even tone. The "growliness" comes from the various discords in the RH over the repeated G in the bass
Observe the line in the bottom notes of the RH figures Csharp-D-C-B
Note the resolution of tension from C-Eb-Ab to the E-D-G (G major chord) in the RH

The passage makes a nice loop, so it easy to practice over and over again.

Isn't it a wonderful piece - however hackneyed it might be.

Thanks Tom, I'll try all that. It will be Saturday before I have access to a piano again. I'll let you know how it goes.

I agree it is a fantastic piece

Mole

Update. The fingering you suggested was the same as in my score. It is gradually yielding to practice, but I have a long way to go yet. Thanks MT.

Mole