Umm...I'm not completely sure on the fingering for the upper register of the french horn, and i'm too embaressed at this stage to ask my teacher.

Would anyone be able to give me a fingering chart for the higher notes with the Thumb valve fingerings included?

:]

Don't be embarrassed - if you knew everything, you wouldn't need a teacher.

You ought to be able to work out all the fingerings (some have several) of each note, and to know the better ones, so as to choose the right one in context.

The following discussion assumes that you have a double horn in F and Bb, with the thumb valve shortening the instrument to the Bb pitch. Other designs exist and are used, but I won't write about them here.

On the full double, your teacher will recommend that you use the F side about to G in the middle of the treble clef. C space is open on the F and on the Bb (i.e its fingering can be 0 or T). The corollary of this is that each note from G# up to C can be produced with the same finger valve settings, either with or without the trigger. From there upwards:

Note Fingerings
. . . . main . alternatives (in descending order of usefulness and reliability)

C# . . T23 . 2, 12, 3, 123, T123
D . . . T12 . T3, 0, 1, 13, T13
D# . . T1 . . 2, 23, T23, T123
E . . . T2 . . 0, 12, T12, 3, T3, T13
F . . . T . . . T1, 1, T23
F# . . T2 . . T12, 2, T3, T123, 123
G . . . T . . . T1, 0, T13, 13
G# . . T2 . . T23, 23
A . . . T . . . T12, T3, 12, 3
A# . . T1 . . 1, 12, 23, 2, etc.
B . . . T2 . . 2, 0, 1, 12, etc.
C . . . T . . . 0, 2, 1, etc.
C# . . T23 . . 0, 2, 1, etc.
D . . . T12 . . 0, 2, 1

I don't remember all of these, but I can work them out by knowing the harmonic series to which the resonances of well-designed brass instruments approximate. E.g., the resonances of the open C horn, as notated for horn in F and starting with the C below the bass staff (new notation); H is the harmonic number, S the number of semitones above the fundamental:

Note Number Comment
. . . . .H . . S
C . . . 1. . .0 . Fundamental
C . . . 2 . .12 . Octave
G . . . 3 . .19 . 12th
C . . . 4 . .24. 15th or double octave; written middle C
E . . . 5 . .28 . 17th; slightly flat to ET
G . . . 6 . .31. 19th
Bb . . 7 . . 34. flattened 21st; very flat to ET, but usable on a hand horn
C . . . 8 . .36 . 22nd or triple octave
D . . . 9 . .38 . 23rd
E . . .10 . .40 . 24th; slightly flat again
F+ . 11 . 41.5 half way between F and F#; Scottish bagpipe tuning
G . . 12 . 43 . 26th
A- . 13 . 44.5 . between Ab and A
Bb . 14 . 46 . . flattened 28th; very flat again
B . . 15 . 47 . . 28th; a good diatonic major seventh above H8, but not a diminished octave
C . . 16 . 48 . . 29th or quadruple octave

The effect of fingering is to transpose this series, with the intervals retaining their characteristics.

Thank you so much Kemn!

I thought I could work them out by myself, but I want to be sure of the best fingering, because the French horn is so easy to mispitch and i find it very hard to keep fluent with two sets of fingering to learn, and a huge range compared to what i'm used to!!

I think i'll make a chart about all the fingerings or something, and the information about harmonics is very interesting, although i'm half figuring it out on my own, but it'll help me a lot.

Thank you so much. :]

http://boerger.org/horn/finger.shtml

Not wanting to start my own topic.

On the B-Flat side of the horn, I've heard that the 3rd valve is more in tune than 1+2, so my question is: would all notes containing this harmonic series (A below mid C, middle D, F#, A, D, etc) all be played as 3rd valve? I've seen videos of players like Tuckwell and Vlatkovic play D and A using 3rd, but not sure about F#.

First, a particular fingering is unlikely to the best in all circumstances. Secondly, which one to choose depends in part on how you choose to adjust the tuning slides of each valve. There is a sort of standard for instruments with only three valves: you set the valve slides slightly longer than the ideal length for the equal tempered interval that they produce by themselves, so that when they are used in combination, the amount by which the total falls short of the ideal (again ET) is reduced. If you adopt this policy, 1+2 is a bit short of a minor third and 3 is longer than exact so that 2+3 is close to right and 1+3 nearer to a perfect fourth than if 3 were spot on. Several reasons may make you depart from this policy: e.g. if you have a double horn, your best tuning for the perfect fourth below the open Bb horn (the lower written Cs and Gs) is the open F horn, so you don't need to worry about 1+3 on the Bb side; on the F side, 1+3 is needed only for two low notes, one of which has the alternative 3 + 4* and both can be adjusted easily with the lip; if you play a modern cornet or trumpet, you will have levers ("triggers") to lengthen the slides on valves 1 and 3, so you can make the undisturbed length appropriate to each valve used in isolation.

From the many fingering possibilites available on the double horn, you should choose the one most appropriate to the musical context, and be guided by your ear. For instance, the written G above middle C has three plausible fingerings of the double horn. 1+4 is slightly flat, 1+3+4 slightly sharp and 0 usually the best, but in the middle of a fast scale on either side of it you may choose to use all Bb fingerings and the note will sound for so short a time that no one will notice that 1+4 is flat. It might also be the best fingering for the third of a sustained major chord on Ab concert (Eb for the F horn), since it is nearer the "just" interval. As for 1+2 or 3, if you tune your third valve slide appropriately, either can be useful for the notes you name.

* these fingerings assume that you depress the thumb valve for the Bb horn. Many horns allow you to reverse the linkage, leaving the open horn in Bb.

At what point in history did a written bass clef, actually mean the written note and not 1 octave higher? How do I tell? At rehearsel last week, I thought I had to play an A below to stave in bass clef

JamesK

Have a look at this link...

http://hornmatters.com/2009/10/why-?old-notation?-bass-clef/



and this as well

http://hornmatters.com/2008/08/transpositi...s-new-notation/

Quote from above web page....

"There is then, no hard-and-fast rule to determine what is ?old? and what is ?new? bass clef notation. However -

?if the composition was written prior to 1920 and,
?if the bass clef note is well below the staff
- chances are that it is old notation."

When new notation first came into use,* most composers annotated the score and parts, "New notation for bass clef". Strauss was still using old notation for the Four Last Songs (1948). I don't recall seeing anything in old notation written since then, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

* IIRC, Gordon Jacob recommended new notation and key signatures for horns in his book, "Orchestral Technique", published 1930.