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Jennyanydots
Hi everyone

I've just started learning this nocturne (Op.55 No.1) from the ABRSM book of (almost) all the nocturnes. But I've noticed that the rhythm in bar 19 is different from the way it is normally played and also different from the version in my very old Augener book of Chopin pieces. The ABRSM edition has a dotted quaver, semiquaver and 2 quavers in the RH of the second half of bar 19, whereas the Augener edition simply has four quavers. The same thing occurs later on in the piece.

Is this a mistake in the ABRSM edition? It doesn't seem likely as the same thing occurs twice. Or did Augener get it wrong? Or has a new manuscript come to light?

Do any of you play it with the dotted quaver rhythm? I've tried listening to recordings on YouTube and haven't yet found one played that way.

Jenny
Mad Tom
QUOTE(Jennyanydots @ Feb 18 2009, 12:29 PM) *

.. the ABRSM book of (almost) all the nocturnes ... the rhythm in bar 19 is different from the way it is normally played and also different from the version in my very old Augener book of Chopin pieces. The ABRSM edition has a dotted quaver, semiquaver and 2 quavers in the RH of the second half of bar 19, whereas the Augener edition simply has four quavers


I also have the AB edition, dated 1960! But it still has this difference, so if it is the result of research, that research is now about 50 years old.

It is not the only discrepancy. It has the B minor Nocturne finishing on the minor chord, whereas other editions finish on the major in a Tierce de Picardy ... and that is how everyone plays it.

There are recent new (2006, 2007, 2008) critical edition of several of Chopin's works, so that should give definitive answers on this sort of question but I don't know if there is a new edition of the Nocturnes yet.
Jennyanydots
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 18 2009, 11:35 AM) *

It is not the onlt discrepancy. It has the B minor Nocturne finishing on the minor chord, whereas other editions finish on the major in a Tierce de Picardy ... and that is how everyone plays it.

There are recent new (2006, 2007, 2008) critical edition of several of Chopin's works, so that should give definitive answers on this sort of question but I don't know if there is a new edition of the Nocturnes yet.


Thanks. I think I'll stick with the Augener version as I prefer it that way. It would have been more helpful if the editor of the ABRSM edition had pointed out and explained the discrepancy in the notes rather than making a stream of negative comments about the quality of the composition. I think it's a really lovely piece.

Which is the B minor Nocturne that is also wrong/different? I can't seem to find one in B minor in my book.
Mad Tom
QUOTE(Jennyanydots @ Feb 18 2009, 05:07 PM) *

Which is the B minor Nocturne that is also wrong/different? I can't seem to find one in B minor in my book.

Whoops. That is because there isn't one. I meant Op 32 No 1, which is in B MAJOR. So it is not a case of a predominantly minor piece ending on the major chord. Sorry.

What actually happens is that there is a very strange/unusual section starting at measure 61 which ends up in B minor in the third to last measure - so it sounds OK whether the final cadence ends on a B maj or a B min chord. But which did Chopin intend? Is it just a mistake in the AB version?
Robodoc
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 18 2009, 04:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Jennyanydots @ Feb 18 2009, 05:07 PM) *

Which is the B minor Nocturne that is also wrong/different? I can't seem to find one in B minor in my book.

Whoops. That is because there isn't one. I meant Op 32 No 1, which is in B MAJOR. So it is not a case of a predominantly minor piece ending on the major chord. Sorry.

What actually happens is that there is a very strange/unusual section starting at measure 61 which ends up in B minor in the third to last measure - so it sounds OK whether the final cadence ends on a B maj or a B min chord. But which did Chopin intend? Is it just a mistake in the AB version?

Or are both versions played and accepted? I have no less than 4 editions of the posthumous C sharp minor nocturne (the one that isn't in the Schirmers edition) - two of them are even in the same booklet (Henle Verlag) - and they are all different!
Mad Tom
QUOTE(Robodoc @ Feb 20 2009, 12:56 AM) *

QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 18 2009, 04:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Jennyanydots @ Feb 18 2009, 05:07 PM) *

Which is the B minor Nocturne that is also wrong/different? I can't seem to find one in B minor in my book.

Whoops. That is because there isn't one. I meant Op 32 No 1, which is in B MAJOR. So it is not a case of a predominantly minor piece ending on the major chord. Sorry.

What actually happens is that there is a very strange/unusual section starting at measure 61 which ends up in B minor in the third to last measure - so it sounds OK whether the final cadence ends on a B maj or a B min chord. But which did Chopin intend? Is it just a mistake in the AB version?

Or are both versions played and accepted? I have no less than 4 editions of the posthumous C sharp minor nocturne (the one that isn't in the Schirmers edition) - two of them are even in the same booklet (Henle Verlag) - and they are all different!

Well I am planning to revive this piece (Op 32 No 1) for public performance so if anyone has a definitive answer on what the final chord should be please let me know. If it is remains ambiguous I''ll continue to conclude with a Minor chord, as in the AB edition.
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