I know this is not going to elicit any cut-in-stone answers, but I would appreciate any advice:
Around december, I was seriously considering the idea of entering the Manchester Concerto Competition.
Unfortunately, I got caught up in a lot of other things and although I bought the music, I got way-laid by other music projects and have only just now started working on the score.
Whilst the actual music/notes of the concerto I've chosen are not particularly challenging, I have never played something this long (979 bars!) and have no idea how long it would take to prepare.
I am anticipating that it will take me approximately 2 and a half - 3 weeks to properly learn the notes, which will leave me with about 6 and a half weeks maximum to actually practice and work on the performance.
I suppose what I'm asking is (1) - does anyone here have any experience of preparing a concerto for a performance and if so, what time period did you have in which to prepare it?
(2) - Is anyone else on here entering the Manchester Concerto Competition? Do you already know your piece well?
(3) - do you think I've left myself too little time and should forget about it? Or should I go for it and just think that if it's not in an acceptable state by the entry deadline then at least I tried?!
Full Version: Piano Concerto
QUOTE(Cadence @ Feb 19 2009, 03:45 PM) 
I know this is not going to elicit any cut-in-stone answers, but I would appreciate any advice:
Around december, I was seriously considering the idea of entering the Manchester Concerto Competition.
Unfortunately, I got caught up in a lot of other things and although I bought the music, I got way-laid by other music projects and have only just now started working on the score.
Whilst the actual music/notes of the concerto I've chosen are not particularly challenging, I have never played something this long (979 bars!) and have no idea how long it would take to prepare.
I am anticipating that it will take me approximately 2 and a half - 3 weeks to properly learn the notes, which will leave me with about 6 and a half weeks maximum to actually practice and work on the performance.
I suppose what I'm asking is (1) - does anyone here have any experience of preparing a concerto for a performance and if so, what time period did you have in which to prepare it?
(2) - Is anyone else on here entering the Manchester Concerto Competition? Do you already know your piece well?
(3) - do you think I've left myself too little time and should forget about it? Or should I go for it and just think that if it's not in an acceptable state by the entry deadline then at least I tried?!
You don't say what standard you play at, nor which concerto you are considering learning. You could learn one of the Mozart concertos in the time it takes to learn just a few bars of a late Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev concerto.
In general I'd say you have left it late. It is a good idea to live with pieces long after you can play them before presenting them publicly. But Martha Argerich reputedly learned Tchakovsky's concerto from scratch and played it from memory, in public twi weeks later. Perhaps the story has grown in the telling!
This is such an individual thing, but if you think it may be possible for you, why not give it a go? Surely it will be good experience for you, having to learn & record the concerto to the highest standard you can manage. It's certainly a very worthwhile event - I observed the 1st competition in 2007, it was very friendly & the adjudicators were great. It was a very educational event & excellent experience for the competitors - I'd go for it if I was you.
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 19 2009, 03:05 PM)
You don't say what standard you play at, nor which concerto you are considering learning. You could learn one of the Mozart concertos in the time it takes to learn just a few bars of a late Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev concerto.
In general I'd say you have left it late. It is a good idea to live with pieces long after you can play them before presenting them publicly. But Martha Argerich reputedly learned Tchakovsky's concerto from scratch and played it from memory, in public twi weeks later. Perhaps the story has grown in the telling!
I'm sorry mad tom, I should have said - It's Schumann's Concerto in A minor, opus 54.
According to my teacher, I play to about LTCL level (not sure what that is in ABRSM terms), but my fingers are not as strong as they should be because I had about 2 years off a while ago due to family issues, so I am being safe and preparing for ATCL this year.
I know pretty much for definite that I have left it too late!! I would never normally consider performing a concerto in so little time, except that I am 22, which is the upper age limit for the competition, so this is the last year I can enter and I would really like to!
I am more concerned as to whether it is possible to learn and prepare a concerto in such a short period of time, as I don't have any experience with pieces of this length - if it is possible, then I will take a chance and go for it. If it is a ridiculous thought, and completely out of reach, then I won't bother stressing myself out!
QUOTE(Cadence @ Feb 20 2009, 01:51 AM)
... I should have said - It's Schumann's Concerto in A minor, opus 54.
According to my teacher, I play to about LTCL level (not sure what that is in ABRSM terms), but my fingers are not as strong as they should be because I had about 2 years off a while ago due to family issues, so I am being safe and preparing for ATCL this year.
Then you have the ability to play this concerto
QUOTE(Cadence @ Feb 20 2009, 01:51 AM)
I know pretty much for definite that I have left it too late!! I would never normally consider performing a concerto in so little time, except that I am 22, which is the upper age limit for the competition, so this is the last year I can enter and I would really like to!
I am 53. I wish I had your problem of being too old at 22!! You can guess my opinion on these age limits if you don't already know it. I just hope that they are ruled illegal before too long.
QUOTE(Cadence @ Feb 20 2009, 01:51 AM)
I am more concerned as to whether it is possible to learn and prepare a concerto in such a short period of time, as I don't have any experience with pieces of this length - if it is possible, then I will take a chance and go for it. If it is a ridiculous thought, and completely out of reach, then I won't bother stressing myself out!
It is not ridiculous. It is possible. One way to find out is to try. Few things sharpen the concentration more than an immovable deadline. But you admit that you have no experience of learning such a long piece so you would be taking taking a big risk. The Schumann concerto is indeed beautiful but it is long and not especially easy. I think the estimate of 2-3 weeks to learn the notes is overoptimistic for this particular concerto. If you are set on learning a concerto with such a pressing deadline, and if you have a choice in the matter, I would be looking at one of Mozart's Concertos. No less demanding musically, but you'd be able to sight read most of it tolerably well, and play it fluently in a few days or weeks, leaving you free to concentrate on how you are going to communicate your conception of the music. Of course if the piece is prescribed, and you have no choice in the matter, then you might as well give it a shot and stop wasting practice time fretting about it.
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 20 2009, 12:18 AM)
Then you have the ability to play this concerto
Thank You, I think thats what I needed to know - I'm annoyingly bad at looking through pieces ans working out what level they are. I often find I think things are easy and find them above me, or think the pieces is way above me but when I sit down to tackle it, the notes come easily. I need to learn how to judge a piece a lot better!
Plus I haven't been able to afford a lesson with my teacher for a few weeks, so I couldn't ask her.
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 20 2009, 12:18 AM)
I am 53. I wish I had your problem of being too old at 22!! You can guess my opinion on these age limits if you don't already know it. I just hope that they are ruled illegal before too long.
I know, it is so frustrating. It's not my fault I couldn't afford music college when I was younger! It is very limiting what you can and cannot enter, especially now when people follow such different routes and "old" is no longer the same age it used to be. (not that I'm saying you are old at all - quite the contrary. But it is an awful think to be in a situation at my age and be thinking that if I do get a place at music college this year or next year, I will be one of the oldest people on my course. It makes me very nervous! I felt at one point that I was too old to apply, but I was persuaded otherwise.)
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 20 2009, 12:18 AM)
The Schumann concerto is indeed beautiful but it is long and not especially easy. I think the estimate of 2-3 weeks to learn the notes is overoptimistic for this particular concerto. If you are set on learning a concerto with such a pressing deadline, and if you have a choice in the matter, I would be looking at one of Mozart's Concertos. No less demanding musically, but you'd be able to sight read most of it tolerably well, and play it fluently in a few days or weeks, leaving you free to concentrate on how you are going to communicate your conception of the music.
I hadn't thought about the mozart concertos - would you mind if I give you the list of pieces and you can advise me? I am not very familiar with concertos, and so have to spend time listening to all of them to know which is good and playable. The reason I chose the Schumann is that I have been told by my teachers and a couple of people at my recitals that I have a touch for Schumann - it's true that he is one of my favourite composers and his music suits my fingers and style very well.
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 20 2009, 12:18 AM)
Of course if the piece is prescribed, and you have no choice in the matter, then you might as well give it a shot and stop wasting practice time fretting about it.
The piece is not completely prescribed, but you are right - I need to stop typing as it is ruining my fingers!
I have actually started learning it yesterday, but I have put the list of pieces below, if you think you see something that you would recommend, I would be most grateful!
Bach Any Concerto (I generally don't get on well with Bach, but I also don't know any of the concertos, so I don't know)
Beethoven Concerto no. 1 in C major, op.15
Beethoven Concerto no. 2 in B flat, op.19
Beethoven Concerto no. 3 in C minor, op. 37
Beethoven Concerto no. 4 in G major, op. 58
Beethoven Concerto no. 5 in E flat, op 73
Chopin Concerto no. 1 in E minor, op. 11
Chopin Concerto no. 2 in F minor, op. 21
Finzi Eclogue
Haydn Concerto in D major (I actually know this one and dislike it, so it's not an option!)
Kabalevsky Concerto No. 3 in D major 'Youth'
Mendelssohn Concerto no. 1 in G minor, op. 25
Mendelssohn Concerto no. 2 in D minor, op. 40
Mozart Any of the Concertos
Saint-Saens Concerto no. 2 in G minor, op.22
Schumann Concerto in A minor, op. 54
Shostakovich Concerto no. 2 in F major
Mad Tom---Sorry, slightly off topic, but what standard is the Schumann piano concerto, only my piano teacher seems to think I'm playing at about DipABRSM despite only doing grade 8 and wants me to start a concerto in July after grade 8.
I'm thinking Schumann, Grieg, or the 1st Liszt piano concerto, but I don't know what standard they all are? Which one is the easiest (well, easy as concertos go!)? Do you have any other sugestions on other concertos i might like? I don't really like many of the Mozart concertos though, which rules out some of the easier ones!
Cadence--- Just go for it! You'll beat yourself up if you realise you could have done it in time but didn't enter. It will be extremely difficult and will mean hours of practise a day, but if you don't try, you'll never know. It's a very good piece to have in your repetoire, and you could always perform it elsewhere with another orchestra as well. Good luck with whatever you decide!
Jacob.
I'm thinking Schumann, Grieg, or the 1st Liszt piano concerto, but I don't know what standard they all are? Which one is the easiest (well, easy as concertos go!)? Do you have any other sugestions on other concertos i might like? I don't really like many of the Mozart concertos though, which rules out some of the easier ones!
Cadence--- Just go for it! You'll beat yourself up if you realise you could have done it in time but didn't enter. It will be extremely difficult and will mean hours of practise a day, but if you don't try, you'll never know. It's a very good piece to have in your repetoire, and you could always perform it elsewhere with another orchestra as well. Good luck with whatever you decide!
Jacob.
Out of those concerti, I would say that the Finzi would be an excellent option for the length of time you've got. It's largely sightreadable, and an absolutely beautiful piece, which is easy to play instinctively, but still has lots you can work on and add. Have a listen: www.naxosmusiclibrary.com .
QUOTE(Cadence @ Feb 20 2009, 12:56 PM)
Beethoven Concerto no. 1 in C major, op.15
Not difficult but rather long
Beethoven Concerto no. 2 in B flat, op.19
Some tricky bits.
Beethoven Concerto no. 3 in C minor, op. 37
Not especially difficult. A good choice. It is best to be able to stretch a comfortable tenth for the second movement
Beethoven Concerto no. 4 in G major, op. 58
Middling difficulty
Beethoven Concerto no. 5 in E flat, op 73
The most difficult of Beethoven's concertos. Fantastic music but not a work to be learned in a hurry.
Chopin Concerto no. 1 in E minor, op. 11
A difficult piece
Chopin Concerto no. 2 in F minor, op. 21
Also a difficult piece
Finzi Eclogue
Attractive and does not look especially difficult
Kabalevsky Concerto No. 3 in D major 'Youth'
Did not like it so have not looked at the score
Mendelsohn Concerto no. 1 in G minor, op. 25
Great craftsmanship , but (in my opinion) rather boring and uninteresting. I ask why would anyone bother to learn this unless they already knew all the concertos of Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, Chopin, Rachmaninof, and Prokofiev and a good selecion of Mozart's!
Mendelssohn Concerto no. 2 in D minor, op. 40
Ditto
Mozart Any of the Concertos
Mostly (relatively) easy to play, but with the disadvantage that every tiny error of tempo, rhythm or dynamics is very obvious
Saint-Saens Concerto no. 2 in G minor, op.22
Don't much like it, so have not looked at the score
Schumann Concerto in A minor, op. 54
Wonderful. Very long. A few technically difficult sections
Shostakovich Concerto no. 2 in F major
Unconventional throughout. Undeniably a work of genius. But it is very difficult to make musical sense of it. It would take me a very log time to learn and it still would not sound great. You might have more affinity with Shostakovich's style. I would not think that this is a piece to be learned in a hurry
Thank you so much for that, it's really kind of you to have gone through them all with comments.
I looked at the Finzi (as it was recommended by Mad Tom and cello-case) but I don't like it at all! I had to stop the recording because I was so bored of it. So thank you for suggesting it but I won't be playing it (even though, as mentioned, it would have been very easy to learn.)
Interestingly with the Beethoven concertos, I actually have to play one in September, so I did think, especially after your post, that I might take up one of those.
In the end though (sorry after all your comments!) I have decided to stick with the Schumann. I think is the most beautiful piece of music out of all of the choices and even though it is so long, it isn't particularly hard and as jacobpianoflute said - I will regret it if I don't have ago and I will always wonder whether I could have achieved it. The only hurdle is the length, and there are repeated sections, which means that in terms of learning notes, it shouldn't take as long as I thought.
Jacobpianoflute: [quote]what standard is the Schumann piano concerto, only my piano teacher seems to think I'm playing at about DipABRSM despite only doing grade 8 and wants me to start a concerto in July after grade 8.
I'm thinking Schumann, Grieg, or the 1st Liszt piano concerto, but I don't know what standard they all are?[/quote
It sounds like you have the same taste in music as me!
I really started learning the Schumann yesterday and covered about 60 bars in an hour. It really isn't that difficult (although there are some passages later, especially in the last movement that are challenging) but it is long! Having said that, it does require good fingering technique/positioning which if you haven't learnt/are not familiar with, might make it harder - A good practice for this is some of the slower 'Visions Fugitives'.
I actually was looking for some different music on www.musicroom.com and for the first time I noticed that they assess the skill level of each piece and put it next to the listing.
For the Schumann and the Liszt, they have it listed as 'advanced' (described by them as grade 8+) and for the Grieg they have 'intermediate/advanced' (described by them as grade 6-8).
I think if you are playing to diploma standard you could tackle the Schumann, I don't know the Liszt, but I will check it out this afternoon when I go buy some music. The Grieg Concerto is lovely and apparently not as hard as the other 2.
It would be nice if you could let us know what you decide to play. If you choose the Schumann, we could share notes!!
x
I looked at the Finzi (as it was recommended by Mad Tom and cello-case) but I don't like it at all! I had to stop the recording because I was so bored of it. So thank you for suggesting it but I won't be playing it (even though, as mentioned, it would have been very easy to learn.)
Interestingly with the Beethoven concertos, I actually have to play one in September, so I did think, especially after your post, that I might take up one of those.
In the end though (sorry after all your comments!) I have decided to stick with the Schumann. I think is the most beautiful piece of music out of all of the choices and even though it is so long, it isn't particularly hard and as jacobpianoflute said - I will regret it if I don't have ago and I will always wonder whether I could have achieved it. The only hurdle is the length, and there are repeated sections, which means that in terms of learning notes, it shouldn't take as long as I thought.
Jacobpianoflute: [quote]what standard is the Schumann piano concerto, only my piano teacher seems to think I'm playing at about DipABRSM despite only doing grade 8 and wants me to start a concerto in July after grade 8.
I'm thinking Schumann, Grieg, or the 1st Liszt piano concerto, but I don't know what standard they all are?[/quote
It sounds like you have the same taste in music as me!
I really started learning the Schumann yesterday and covered about 60 bars in an hour. It really isn't that difficult (although there are some passages later, especially in the last movement that are challenging) but it is long! Having said that, it does require good fingering technique/positioning which if you haven't learnt/are not familiar with, might make it harder - A good practice for this is some of the slower 'Visions Fugitives'.
I actually was looking for some different music on www.musicroom.com and for the first time I noticed that they assess the skill level of each piece and put it next to the listing.
For the Schumann and the Liszt, they have it listed as 'advanced' (described by them as grade 8+) and for the Grieg they have 'intermediate/advanced' (described by them as grade 6-8).
I think if you are playing to diploma standard you could tackle the Schumann, I don't know the Liszt, but I will check it out this afternoon when I go buy some music. The Grieg Concerto is lovely and apparently not as hard as the other 2.
It would be nice if you could let us know what you decide to play. If you choose the Schumann, we could share notes!!
x
QUOTE(Cadence @ Feb 21 2009, 10:06 AM)
I actually was looking for some different music on www.musicroom.com and for the first time I noticed that they assess the skill level of each piece and put it next to the listing.
For the Schumann and the Liszt, they have it listed as 'advanced' (described by them as grade 8+) and for the Grieg they have 'intermediate/advanced' (described by them as grade 6-8).
I think if you are playing to diploma standard you could tackle the Schumann, I don't know the Liszt, but I will check it out this afternoon when I go buy some music. The Grieg Concerto is lovely and apparently not as hard as the other 2.
It would be nice if you could let us know what you decide to play. If you choose the Schumann, we could share notes!!
x
I'm very suprised they rated the Grieg concerto as on grades 6-8, because it's a lot more than that! The Cadenza of the first movement is incredibly difficult!
I don't see my piano teacher until next weekend, so i'll discuss it with her, and let you know. I'm more drawn towards the Schumann and the Liszt than the Grieg at the minute. There are some great recordings of the concertos on Youtube, you should take a listen, especially to the ones played by Martha Argerich.
Schumann piano concerto:
1st movement played by Martha Argerich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dipeCdnIXI (part one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXThYsLAIeA...feature=related (part two)
Liszt Piano concerto:
All movements, played by Martha Argerich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH-g0xi70is (part one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIwKF9XT1yo...feature=related (part two)
Grieg Piano concerto:
All movements played by Leif Ove Andsnes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL_DT4DRxVA...feature=related (movement one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACpOAT8ZcF0...feature=related (movement two)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl9H4fxripo...feature=related (movement three)
Sorry, the last two concertos aren't really relevant to the post, but they're fantastic!
It's a shame i can't learn them all, but I would struggle with one, let alone all 3!
Jacob.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.