hey
just been thinking about the gender divide in a standard brass section. did an orchestra course over last half term, and felt a little out of my depth with 2 out of 12 of the section being female.

just a thought...........

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Nov 3 2004, 06:57 PM)

hey just been thinking about the gender divide in a standard brass section. did an orchestra course over last half term, and felt a little out of my depth with 2 out of 12 of the section being female. just a thought...........

Hi,

Seems to be that females are very popular brass players.
I play cornet, my sisters and mother play cornet or trumpet.
The only male brass player in our family is my hubby

happy playing

Jackie

I'm always in a minority as a female horn player. I hate it when people say that because you're a girl you automatically won't be as good as a boy because they have a bigger lung capacity or something! It gets really annoying especially when you're ahead of all the boys and they still say that sort of thing, and then imply that you're only principal because you are a girl, or because you flirted with the audition panel, or because they wanted to 'give me a chance'! arrrggggh! it's infuriating!
Of course, being in an all male brass section can have it's advantages!

QUOTE (hgirl @ Nov 3 2004, 08:57 PM)

Of course, being in an all male brass section can have it's advantages!

Not in my all-girls school orchestra!

We have a small brass section... 4 french horns, one tenor horn, 3 trumpets... we have had trombones and euphoniums in the past, and we had a tuba for a few years, but not at the moment sadly... all those parts are played on saxophones...

But it's all fun.

two out of three courses where ive been the only female horn player ive been shoved onto fourth horn, and the course where i eventually got to be principal (because the tutor auditioned us) i was also originally on fourth horn.

male horn players dont play fair!

nothing wrong with playing fourth... i like fourth...

i was never given the choice by the other (male) horns, it was fourth or nothing.

but playing fourth by choice is more fun though, i like it when you play so low that your nose starts vibrating!

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Nov 10 2004, 06:37 PM)

i like it when you play so low that your nose starts vibrating!

I love that!

QUOTE (hgirl @ Nov 10 2004, 09:52 PM)

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Nov 10 2004, 06:37 PM) i like it when you play so low that your nose starts vibrating! I love that!

me too!! i can play the lowest out of anyone in my school's junior orchestra... not that that's anything to be proud of lol...

wow ...how long have you guys been playing for?

i've been playing for a year. i played other things before though.

nearly 7 years- i've loved every minute!

yeh, ive been playing horn for about 6 and a half years. but i'd played piano for 3 and a half before starting horn, so i could already read music.

i think there are a lot of closet brass players... the second violinist in my ex-string quartet plays horn to grade 8 standard, and nobody knew about it for years and years and years!

however i think most people are aware of the fact i play the horn... mostly because i complain about not being allowed to play it because orchestras always swipe me as a violinist/viola player!

going back to the original question i posted, i meant that i dont really know any female brass players who are pros in orchestras and/or freelnacers, chamber music etc.

i can literally name two female pro horn players, sue dent and elspeth dutch (nee taylor).

its not very inspiring to female horn players auditioning to colleges, or who are at college/conservatoire and wish to make a living out of playing horn apart from going into teaching. i asked my female horn teacher about it, and she said that she was always either put on fourth without being given a choice, or when they realised she was good enough for first, put her on principal and then made snide comments whenever she made even the smallest slip up, in rehearsal.

just wondered if any male brass players out there would give me some insight?

also, three of the horn players at my music service play violin aswell (why??!?!) and play violin in all the highest orchestras and then play horn only in the horn quartet and the horn ensemble, or in the wind bands and orchestras. hmmmmmmmm..........

The fourth horn in the Berlin Philharmonic is female, and she's amazing! Did anyone see her on TV when the Belrin Phil played Beethoven 9 with Simon Rattle in the Proms this year? The solo in the 3rd movement was perfect. There are quite a few female professional horn players arond- I have a recording of Claire Briggs which is quite good. But I do agree, girls don't get half as much recognition as boys in the 'horn playing world' and I think it's quite unfair. Oh well, that's life I suppose- we'll just have to show them all!

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Nov 23 2004, 03:41 PM)

also, three of the horn players at my music service play violin aswell (why??!?!)  :blink:

*cough*

why not?

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Nov 23 2004, 03:41 PM)

and play violin in all the highest orchestras and then play horn only in the horn quartet and the horn ensemble, or in the wind bands and orchestras. hmmmmmmmm..........

it's because violin parts are more interesting.

also if i want to play horn i get crucified and told i have to play violin anyway.

That strikes me as rather odd. Our school orchestra is crying out for horn players and has so many violins that the woodwind, brass and percussion are really squashed at the back of the room!

violins may play more but horns are "special". (in the non retarded sense, clearly!!!!!!!)

stuff like mahler and strauss wouldnt be half as good without that gorgeous sound of eight + horns soring over the orchestra! (am being very poetic today, hmmmmmmmmm)

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Nov 25 2004, 03:16 PM)

(am being very poetic today, hmmmmmmmmm)

Yes, somewhat like eecummings (or Archie, Don Marquis's literary insect [I tried to write ######roach, but was censored], who couldn't work the shift key)

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Nov 25 2004, 03:16 PM)

violins may play more but horns are "special". (in the non retarded sense, clearly!!!!!!!)

of course the horn is important, and special!!! but what is an orchestra without its stringies?

horns didn't even come into the orchestra until about a century after the violins did

don't get me wrong, I do love my horn...

you know that apart from leader of the orchestra principal horn gets paid more than any other player?

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Dec 14 2004, 08:06 PM)

you know that apart from leader of the orchestra principal horn gets paid more than any other player?

oooh!!! exciting!!!! mebbeh I should concentrate more on my horn playing lol... i've got no chance of leading a professional orchestra... but then again, I have even less chance of ever getting into a professional orchestra on horn!!! lol

you never know tho! there's less work for principal horn, your best bet is to be a low horn specialist as they are loads more jobs around for 2nd and 4th.

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Dec 16 2004, 03:28 PM)

you never know tho! there's less work for principal horn, your best bet is to be a low horn specialist as they are loads more jobs around for 2nd and 4th.

that's me out of work in the future then! lol

but playing fourth is so much more fun! plus you have about a quarter of the pressure, and you'll get lots of rests to sit back and relax and think how much you're being paid to sit though lots of bars rest on stage.

In my band, I think there are more girl then boys on brass instruments, and I know somebody who was in the National Youth Orchestra (I think) playing on the horn and she was a girl.

Hgirl is now in the NYO, and is there atm on the christmas course.

I'm currently doing the county youth first orchestra course (because it pools from four music services the courses are in the xmas easter and summer hols) and out of eight horns, only two are girls.

I've heard that they are SOME female horn players, but I think there should be more. Most pro orchestras I've seen only have male horn players, altho I did see the LSO play with a female horn player on fourth horn, but she isnt the regular fourth horn so she must have been freelancing.

wow this is more like a horn players discussion!
at a band i play in the is 5 horns (yes 5 of us!) and 4 of us are female!
alot of the bass end are female and my sister palyed a trombone for a while

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Dec 28 2004, 09:54 PM)

I know somebody who was in the National Youth Orchestra (I think) playing on the horn and she was a girl.

last year in the National Youth Orchestra there were no girls in the horn section, and this year there were 2 girls and 8 boys! The other girl is from N.I so I doubt you know her! I'm also in the National Youth Orch of Ireland where last year I was the only girl in a section of 7. There are 3 of us this year though!

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Dec 29 2004, 07:47 PM)

I've heard that they are SOME female horn players, but I think there should be more.

Hear hear!!!!

My mum plays the horn! I play the (tennor) horn!!

most of the players on our band are female as well

I meant female pro brass players. For example, my local Professional Orchestra which perform roughly once a month and I go see them play regularly, have any ever had one pro brass player (horn) who was female in one concert. I know a lot of female amateur players.

There have been lots of posts in these forums on gender issues, like male flautists, female bassonists, now female hornists. I wish people did not make generalisations about what instrument is appropriate for male or female. It is just like clothing; we assume certain things are "appropriate" for boys or girls, with no real justification, just stereotyping.

Please note, I do not mean to have a go at anyone in particular on these threads; I just speak in general.

I have however seen some books that discuss this issue, so you can see what research has been done into this.

The Social Psychology of Music - David Hargreaves
The Right Instrument For Your Child - Atarah-Ben-Tovim

QUOTE

I wish people did not make generalisations about what instrument is appropriate for male or female.

My post topic was merely commenting that there are few female professional horn players, and was not suggesting that all professional horn players are male. Also, from the posts its clear that they are lots of female horn players out there, which is a good thing, so I may be seeing more female professionals in the orchestras I see.

Please also note that the correct term is horn player, not hornist.

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Feb 6 2005, 09:03 PM)

Please also note that the correct term is horn player, not hornist.

heeeheeee

I thought that it was hornist in America and horn player in the UK...?

QUOTE (neil.clarinet @ Feb 3 2005, 08:01 PM)

I wish people did not make generalisations about what instrument is appropriate for male or female.

Correct me if im wrong, but i didnt think that people were commenting on what instruments were appropriate for which gender, merely that there arent very many female horn players, or that there are in some cases.

Yep, my point exactly Katet.

Oh well, I suppose if posts are open to all we are eventually gonna get some more intelluctual posts. I do agree that the gender assumptions that are attatched to certain instruments are "bad and wrong", but it wasnt what I meant by my topic.

Sorry to anyone offended by the subject matter, I didnt intend for political issues to be aired.

As a european horn player, I stand corrected on the American term. Sorry!

Clarinetlover, why do you laugh at hornist? As a horn player, I'm always saying things that non-musicians (and non-horn ppl) think are rude. Such as bell-end, lubricating my slides, referring to practicing horn as "horn-ing" etc. Lol.

Happy horn playing everybody!
hornplayer xx

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Feb 7 2005, 07:48 PM)

Clarinetlover, why do you laugh at hornist? As a horn player, I'm always saying things that non-musicians (and non-horn ppl) think are rude. Such as bell-end, lubricating my slides, referring to practicing horn as "horn-ing" etc. Lol.

its not funny, little stupid non funny things usually humour me...sorry

I wasnt having a go at you clarinetlover!!!!!!!!

I was being ironic........... my sense of humour doesnt come across in my posts........ sorry *hug*

The horn is a really easy instrument to take the mick our of, my friends have great fun laughing with (or at) me over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

plus brass players tend to be the most mischievous section of the orchestra.......

xx

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Feb 8 2005, 09:16 AM)

plus brass players tend to be the most mischievous section of the orchestra.......

but horn players are different. A professional horn-playing friend of mine reckoned that the horn section was the most cohesive in the orchestra: they fit conveniently and economically into one car, to travel to gigs; they constitute a complete bridge school with no-one left out; they relate to the brass and to the woodwind without belonging to either. He might have added that they have a better repertoire than most (Hindemith and Tippett quartets) and that many horn players have become excellent conductors (Norman del Mar, Maurice Handford, Eric Wetherall, Gunther Schuller and Anthony Halstead come to mind).

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Feb 6 2005, 09:03 PM)

QUOTE I wish people did not make generalisations about what instrument is appropriate for male or female. Please also note that the correct term is horn player, not hornist.

Just seeing if you were paying attention.

QUOTE but horn players are different. A professional horn-playing friend of mine reckoned that the horn section was the most cohesive in the orchestra:



Well, it is true that horns are quite well behaved, but if we do muck around in orchestra;

1) we're less likely to be spotted by the conductor by sitting at the back
2) we broadly speaking play more of the time than the brass so have less time to muck around.
3) there are less of us than in string sections or the brass on the left , so if we do get spotted we're more likely to picked upon by the conductor as an individual.

Its true, we do have good music written for us, although my music centre get to play obscure trio sonatas, and as im playing them on my holton (modern) horn, i do get asked a lot to play quieter, especially on high sustained notes, which is just mean!

hornplayer

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Feb 8 2005, 09:16 AM)

I wasnt having a go at you clarinetlover!!!!!!!! I was being ironic........... my sense of humour doesnt come across in my posts........ sorry *hug*

oh ok, i misunderstood as well then! lol

oops!

To resurrect an old discussion, if anyone where can get hold of the new edition of muso, look at page 24.

there are girls in all of the brass sections i play in! - brass is changing alot - it seems to have more appeal to girls now - i dont know why - but hey - whats wrong with girls playing brass!

Hi everybody

I'm a female tuba player - I work as a brass peri but also play tuba with the RLPO (mostly education concerts) quite a lot. Brass playing is definitely no longer for boys only - the second trombone with the Halle orchestra is female, for example, and there are lots of women freelancing around here. My pupils are roughly 50 / 50 boy / girl, so in about ten years time when they are old enough I'm sure there will be a lot more women in symphony orchestra brass sections.

Merry Christmas!

scoobydog

I spoke to my horn teacher about this recently, and he said that they are a lot of up and coming female players at various music colleges and that things are going to change when they all graduate.

Another stereotype we female brass players should avoid though, drinking pints!