I've recently set up as a piano teacher (and already have 7 pupils, wohoo!). I've been approached by someone who just wants to learn one piece - The Heart Asks Pleasure First. They are a complete beginner, so obviously this would take some time, but I am keen not to turn anyone away at this stage.

Does anyone have any advice on what they would do in this scenario? Insist on basic musical competence before beginning the piece? Teach by rote rather than from a score? Any advice, or rough estimates on how long it might take (a year? 3?) before they can play it, would be much appreciated!

Some years ago a mother of one of my pupils (who therefore should have known better) asked me if I would teach her to play one piece - the first movement of the "Moonlight Sonata". she also had had no previous tuition - apart from a few lessons as a very small child.

I explained as tactfully as I could that this wasn't possible and offered to take her on as I would any beginner. She didn't pursue the matter.

Hi Aquarelle,

Thanks for the quick response! If I took her on as a normal beginner, how long (roughly, of course depends on the student) do you think it would take before she might be ready to learn it? As she's bound to ask me...

Hi Dove, welcome to the forum!

I've just been watching Michael Nyman play it on YouTube. I've been learning piano for around 7 months and had the benefit of already being G4 on clarinet, but I'm light years away from playing this piece. Even if I could get the fingering (which I couldn't), there's no way I could play it with any degree of musicality or suitable tempo for... well, years probably.

Like many adults, she probably hasn't got a clue what's involved in learning an instrument. I think I thought I'd be able to play anything and everything on the clarinet after about 6 months But four years on, even though I still can't play much of the music which I took up the clarinet in order to play, I've been really enjoying the learning experience. And piano... I only got a piano in order to help me with theory, but I've completely changed my view about it and now I want to learn it properly.

Your potential pupil might find that although she(?) starts out wanting one thing, her goals change - and it might happen quite rapidly. On piano, it happened for me as soon as I touched the first key on my new piano

The trouble is, that if you tell your lady that it will take years, it could put her off ever starting. Whereas if she starts and really gets into it, she might enjoy it for its own sake. Perhaps you could use the analogy of learning a language - she will need to learn the vocabulary and grammar of music, and only then can she learn how to speak it fluently. Unlike with a language though, there is no Phrase Book where you just learn the phrase/piece off pat!

I hope it works out for both of you, good luck!

I took over an adult pupil from another teacher and he wanted to do something very similar - he has been with me for over a year now and is still working on the same piece - a Mozart sonata. It took some time for me to realise that this has been his approach from the outset - ie pick a piece you like and gradually learn it. It has taken nearly a year for me to persuade him that he needs to learn some basic skills - it has been a real uphill struggle and not one I would ever wish to repeat. He hasn't really accepted that he is trying to run before he can walk, and although there have been improvements, progress is snail-like. I can't help feeling that he would have got on a lot better if he had taken a more conventional route. There are no short cuts to being able to play properly. Take her on as a proper beginner or not at all!

Hmm, all really helpful replies, thanks! What I may do is show her the piece and have it as a target, and then talk through how each thing I teach her is a step towards being able to play it - ie all the usual beginner stuff - reading music, rhythm, harmony etc etc, and then hopefully she'll enjoy the process and understand that it may take years and years before she actually gets to the right level!

I think you're all right though, if she's not open to learning what she needs to know to play the piece, then she won't be able to play it anyway, so I can't teach her... I always have an initial consultation before a pupil starts lessons, so I'll just make sure I stress that there is no time limit on how long she may need to study...

Thanks again

The piece seems really tough... I read its score, and there are 3 voices going on at the same time, right? I don't think I will be able to play in another 3 years' time. Not well enough. And that would have taken me 12 years of piano study...

Sometimes you can't blame non-musicians for wanting to play something very complicated as beginners. Most adults want to impress other people, hence they start learning an instrument. They might have read a "Teach Yourself Piano" book, listened to a friend play their favourite piece, heard rumours of a late-bloomer who learnt to play a Richard Clayderman piece in 6 months etc. And all the great musicians make it look so easy.

Even as a piano student, I had once thought that I could learn all the guitar chords over the weekend. Ah, that assumption was all built on rumours and false reassurances that the guitar is easier to pick up than the piano. How wrong I was. I still can't play the guitar, because I realised that I couldn't cope with the cuts on my fingers, which even hurt when I played the piano.

I have an idea: Maybe in a year's time you could teach her to play ONLY the topmost voice in bars 3 and 4 i.e. the main melody without the running notes in the treble stave? And you could do a duet with her, by playing just the bass.

The score I read: http://www.take-a-piano-sheet-music-break....asure_first.pdf

From a student point of view, I took up the sax wanting to play Ravel's Bolero. I had no musical experience at all and so started on a cheap recorder and kids book to learn the rudiments of reading music. I thought if I couldn't get on with that then at least I hadn't wasted hundreds of pounds on a sax!!! I did get on alright with it, bought a sax, booked some lessons and bought a book with the sax music for Bolero in it. I couldn't play it - it was much too hard!!!! I hadn't told my teacher what i wanted to do , but I realised that I would need to get the basics in first and went along with what I was being taught. I tried Bolero every now and again and can now play it reasonably after about 20 months.

I'm still with my teacher, still learning, and playing lots of other enjoyable music too!!!

Sounds good, Nick - a very sensible approach. I feel so frustrated with my student, because he is missing out on so many other things he could be doing... I insist that we spend at least half the lesson on my agenda now, but he never practises anything but the one wretched piece!! Ah well, its his money I suppose...

Having tried to do this before and failing miserably I would say no if I was asked again. They either start from the beginning or not at all.

Yes, I agree. I've not had this precise problem - but have had very similar - ie students wanting to play something way beyond them, and struggling for months on end. Even when you are trying to lay down the basics at the same time it is still a really tough one.

Maybe he wants to impress his girlfriend and give it to her as a proposal gift... But seriously, have you asked him why he persists? That's an awfully long time to come to terms with the truth ...

He is a Very Stubborn Man! I think he has other issues in his life, and this is something that he feels in control of and has set as a goal. He would regard it as a failure to stop now. He seems to enjoy the lessons and has decided that this is how he wants to pursue it. I've talked to him about it at length and offered all sorts of other books, pieces, technical exercises, theory etc. They mysteriously disappear into the ether, never to be seen again!

At the end of the day, he is an adult, he pays me for an hour of my time once a fortnight, and I help him as best I can in that time, given the restrictions that he imposes..

I admire his perseverance, but it is such a pity that he has chosen a treacherous path. But if he insists on it after a year, what can anyone else do? It must be painful to teach him and see little progress, but you must not doubt yourself. Your approach is absolutely correct.

He imposes restrictions? Wow, I didn't know the years of the teacher setting the rules are over! My teacher just yelled at a boy who didn't do his theory last week. She never yells at me, but it could also be because I am already an adult. I do feel that she is slightly pressured when she teaches me, because she cannot treat me as a child (no yelling, no banging the table, no sharp remarks to control tantrums), and I do suggest things like, "Why not we work a little more on aural this week?"

Ah, we adult learners can be difficult students, hmm? OK, I'll be less naughty next time...

Teoani, thanks I think the 2-voice approach might be the solution - will still take a year or two probably, but better than a decade!



Erm, what?! Wanting to learn is hardly my definition of naughty...maybe I'm just blessed with nice pupils, but I think if you need to yell/bang things then something's not right. It shows she really cares though.

How strange! Viohazard taught himself to play that before he started taking piano lessons last year...it must be one of those pieces that gives listeners a strong feeling of "piano".

If it is enough to motivate somebody to start learning piano, perhaps teaching them even a bit of it might be nice?

You could put together a series of pieces that will eventually lead to the playing of the requested piece and say to the pupil:

"Yes, of course, but to play that you first you have to play all of these!"

It might work......?!

Eugh, they want to learnt the piano so they can play that?! Anyway, as for how long it will take, that's all relative to the amount of practice done, a friend of mine learnt went from being a complete beginner and learnt it in about a year. Then again, I know people who've been learning for 4 years who couldn't play that.

I would say that this piece is around grade 4-5 standard (depending on how well he wants to play it).

But thats still more than beginner standard!


I am actually in a similar position to you - I had a student book a lesson a couple of weeks ago and said to me that he wanted to learn a piece specifically so he could play it at his wedding. Not so bad, except that his wedding is in June.

So not only does he want to learn this piece, but he wants to perform it for his loved one, in front of all their guests, when he has never played the piano before.

Now I explained to him that we would start at the beginning and that I was in no way guaranteeing that I would have him ready to learn this piece by the time the wedding came round, but I would do my best and see what stage we got to in a couple of months before assessing whether it was really a possibility.

He agreed and we have had 2 lessons (he has already missed 2 others. hmm... ) where I try to teach him the basics, he plays it through (he is actually fairly talented and picks things up fast, which is lucky!) The after he's done an exercise once, twice at a push, he sits up straight, looks at me and goes "right, done that, next"!

I suddenly realised last lesson, that whilst he has agreed to learn from the beginning, he sees everything as something just to bang through, yep I've done that, so straight onto the next thing, like steps that will eventually get him to his piece. I know that learning an instrument is basically like that if you look at it, but am I missing something here?! Usually I want students to work on an exercise/skill until they do it well, not until they just know how to do it - I think there is an important difference here.

What I'm saying, is that you may find yourself in a situation where he is learning everything in order to get to that piece he first brought up, and may never play it well. Now I guess for some people this is OK and they don't mind it, but I for one will am already uncomfortable with the idea that if my student manages to play his piece in time, he will in a way be representing my teaching skills, and I wouldn't ever want anyone to equate my standard of teaching with his standard of playing, if he is just going to bang it out ...

Oh my god, the wedding performance by the groom! I have seen one of those, and it was indeed quite awkward. After the first bar, I knew he was going off-tune, as the piece he was playing was so well-known nobody could have missed it. But everyone had to listen to him murder the piece (and his own pride) to the end, and still had to clap. I don't know who suggested it, the bride or the groom himself.

I agree that exercises should be done reasonably well, or at least to the best effort the student is capable of. But beginners don't understand, I suppose. Can't blame the to-be-groom, as he really is in a hurry

I think an analogy would be learning to drive. Yes, you could make a right turn, but 50% of the time the car will stall. Hence the stage "Right Turn at a Junction" cannot be passed. Yes, you could go up a slope, but 30% of the time you roll back and hit the car behind. Hence the stage "Ascend and stop at top of slope" must be failed. Anyone could get a car moving by turning the steering wheel and pressing the accelerator, but being able to drive well saves lives...

OK, I'm steering off course now... I'm a poor driver

By the way jsut to follow up on this, I explained that we'd have to start with how to learn the piano, in order to get to the right standard for the piece - and that I couldn't say how long this would take. She was fine with that, and also happy to learn a simplified arrangement when we finally get to it. Right now she's just having normal beginner lessons - everyone's happy! Thanks for all the advice etc.