Rather than hi-jack the Difficult Music thread, could I ask if I am likely to offend sensibilities by trying out some exam music on the congregation?

This is a penitential season and it may be that they would consider it an ordeal to listen to me but it would be a help to perform this stuff in advance of the exam, to be taken in just a few weeks from now.

Only one piece is Bach but it is apparently played at Christmas, although I can't think of anyone who is likely to rumble this fact.

So - should I present the stuff or must I sit on it until a more suitable season?

Tell us more? I assume you are thinking of closing voluntaries?

You don't need me to tell you that a 'voluntary' is customarily left to the discretion of the organist, but it should be chosen and played appropriately, (or should I say, should not be chosen or played inappropriately). And it goes without saying that it should be well rehearsed.

(Did you know that in addition to not singing or saying the Gloria in Lent, hymns containing the word 'Alleluia' should also be avoided?)

I think it depends a lot on the church and it's congregation. If they are 'high brow' they may well spot that the music is being played 'out of season'. But if they just like a good tune it's probably down to your choice.

Lent is indeed a penitential season, and the church will almost certainly be stripped bare of flowers and decorations; but Sundays in Lent are still Feast days, so a little musical jollity need not be deemed entirely inappropriate.

SB

Agreed. Most congregations are unlikely to spot it, although a chorale prelude on 'In Dulci Jubilo' might not be such a good idea....

Anyhow, as SB points out, Sundays are excluded from the 40 days of Lent.

Oh good.

It's just that some people absolutely LOVE to be offended and there is nothing like organised religion to contain traps for the unwary. I would not wish to slide something playful past the Faithful, but I have some Bach and Stanford so I might just try one of those and then make a quick escape out of the back door.

I think I shall risk it because I need performance practice with these things.

Yes I forgot that once ! One of my favourite postludes is Gordon Slaters 'An Easter Alleluia', though I regard it as a Prelude/Fantasia on 'St Francis - Lasst uns Erfreuen' Makes a great Postlude for Easter Day though. Oh and I did it for Grade 8 in 1964 !

It's a minefield!

People are apt to get up and walk out (I am thinking of a Church Times column from a couple of weeks ago where the respondent was outraged by the exposition in a sermon; although he did concede that it was possible to miss the later deconstruction of the point) although I would be blissfully unaware of this unless fruit was flung.

Perhaps the majority don't really give a hoot, and just enjoy the music. Can't think why Sundays are excepted though; after all, the ordeal in the desert was not relieved by a weekend off as far as I am aware.

Mmm *nods* and I seem to remember we don't have organ voluntaries in Lent at all.
(although we are very traditional and may not be typical).

Mothering Sunday tends to be a bit lighter in spirit - before the solemnity of Passiontide. March 22 this year.

Are there any restrictions on what organists play in Holy Week? I know bell-ringingers aren't allowed to practice, nor ring at services! (although that maybe to not ruin the neighbours first week of their easter holidays!) Whether that includes easter sunday or not, im not sure.

Definitely not! Easter is a major celebration, so the bells should be rung in earnest!

To be honest I did not know that bells should not be rung during holy week, but then we wouldn't usually have any reason to do so. (I'm sure I can remember ringing for the service one Maundy Thursday evening, but I could be wrong).

Otherwise, the only rules that I know of are that bells must be rung half-muffled on Remembrance Sunday, and on the death of members if the Royal Family, apart from the death of a Monarch; in which case the bells must be rung fully muffled.

Oh, and the bells must not be rung during wartime except to warn of invasion, but that was a little before my time!

SB

and even in wartime, they had to be rung in back rounds
in some villages, its still said that if they ring backrounds over and over, theres an invasion, haha. Id have thought that good friday ringing would be allowed, halfmuffled with the tenor open. Hmm im not sure. Im skiing that week anyway, so it doesnt really matter

</hijacking thread>

I'll have to try that the next time I'm calling.

Mind you, we still have some of our road signs missing from the war.

SB

Haha, im going to try it tonight at practice and see if our villagers evacuate

Not being a bell-ringer, and diverting the thread somewhat, ringing bells fully muffled seems to be a contradiction in terms. No doubt some-one could briefly enlighten me (and then I'll let the thread get back on topic).

It means there is a piece of leather put around the clapper of the bell, so when it stikes instead of a 'ding' its more of a booming sound, very haunting.

Half-muffled ringing can be heard here.

Yes; the leather muffles make a much softer sound, but as Hello Cello says, that sound is very haunting, and if you are a bell ringer it seems to stay with you all day. (I don't know whether other parishioners actually notice, but that is not the point).

Quite how this tradition started I don't really know, but I am sure some someone here will know.

SB

an even better recording http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_oTlWPGU0w...feature=related

I have a Mayhew volume called something like, Lent and Easter Collection. All pretty serviceable, harmless and almost sight readable stuff.

Thanks for the info bell-ringing aficionados. (Strangely enough we used to live near Childwall featured on the Youtube link here!)

I've just asked the regular organist if I should try out my exam pieces 'on the dog', so to speak, during Lent and he was all for it.

"Just do as you like" he said, so there we are.

If a riot ensues I shall report it on here.

I hope none of the Lefebure-Wely Sorties are in the syllabus....

There are no Wellies of any sort in my repertoire, thank you HG.

Just the ones the congregation throw at you....

Very likely!

Further to the posts above, I was reminded on Sunday that the Trumpet stop should not be used in services during Lent.

Perhaps it would be useful to have a short list of Lent Do's and Don’ts for those who are less knowledgeable on this subject, or who have simply forgotten.

SB

Why the H*ll not?!
You would have to have the eye for minutiae of a Pharisee (I was going to take the name of a forumite in vain here but decided against it in the nick of time) to observe all these rules and regs.
Just whose bright idea was it anyway? When did trumpet stops appear on organs? Fortunately I don't have a trumpet stop so am unlikely to flout this one. Are you sure this isn't a wind-up, SB? If you are on the level then yes, lets have a Lent List.

Possibly not a wind-up - I think there is a tradition in our particular church that we keep off the reed stops during Lent. Much of our music in Lent is unaccompanied, anyway.

No, I promise you it wasn't a wind up. I was 'reminded' by one of our Lay Readers as my son was playing on Sunday, (he's just 15), and it was the first time he had ever played for a service in Lent.

I realise that different churches have different rules for the observance of Lent, (ours is high-ish Anglican), so I do think it would be helpful to have a list of Lent do's and don'ts for the reasons that I gave.

That would hopefully help us all to avoid the Faux Pas that the OP was concerned about.

SB

Sadly, clipping a 15 year old round the ear is now illegal, even if they make impudent remarks!!

Never heard the 'no reeds in Lent' one, even as high up the candle as your church sounds. The last verse of 40 Days and 40 Nights needs it (and a Tierce de P, but that's a sep issue).

What next, no lights in church, no tea and coffee, no witty remarks in sermons (I know that doesn't happen anyway in places), no smiling in the choir, no hymns in major keys, no semiquavers in voluntary, no pedals, no use of pistons, small choirboys to pump bellows, only stale bread in communion, compulsory sackcloth and ashes on the way in.....

I think all things in moderation. Yes, I use less organ, more thoughtful and reflective voluntaries etc, but a list of do's and dont's just becomes too prescriptive.

^^

Ah, if only I felt an illicit thrill when using reeds (or any other stop for that matter!) then I could see the sense in witholding their use. Didn't realise they were so dangerously seductive.

Gosh, it's going to be a long Lent!

Don't shoot me; I'm only the messenger!

I was a little surprised myself, but I presume (or presumed) these people know what they are talking about. Sadly the character in question makes Gordon Brown look like a stand up comedian, and when he gets to choose the hymns the services take on a rather 'funereal' atmosphere.

As for the comments about smiling in the choir; the last time that happened they were all singing in time and in tune, and that was a very long time ago.

SB

haha. Maybe it was just solo reeds. Certainly if you are lucky enough to have a large and very loud instrument, discreet use during Lent makes Easter even more of a big joyful contrast.

We certainly don't lack levity though - a minute or two of stand-up comedy is more the norm than the exception just before the vestry prayer - it's not unusual for the choir to walk in only just managing to keep straight faces.

I love the solemnity of Lent, but I never understood the idea of long faces. My first organ teacher used to say ' I may be a sinner but I'm not miserable about it'.

There are a lot of organists who maintain a tradition of no reeds during Lent.

I tend to play with lesser registrations in Lent than I would at other times of the year (as I do during Advent too) so that there's a sense of anticipation leading towards the major festival when the organ can really thunder forth.

Well, that's what I think anyway!

Well, thank you everyone for your thoughts on this rather spurious matter.

I promise this was a serious question, but it does seem that perhaps the Lay Reader in question was interpreting things rather too literally.

SB

If I leave out the reeds I don't have a lot left!

* Mel flicks through her A M-T to check which ones are reeds*

Your A M-T?

Best used as a prop to raise the height of the organ stool, methinks!

? Ancient and Modern Translated ?

The new Mission Praise is much better for that, especially if you have long legs.

SB

The A M-T is on loan from my teacher. I shall maintain a neutral stance in case I ever meet the lady.

Given that I sometimes have trouble stretching my 31" trouser length legs to the required pedals the last thing I need is is a higher organ stool.

We also use NMP here. With me using reeds to play from NMP there may well be a bolt of lightning from this corner of the land.
You heard it here first!

But look on the bright side. At least if you use NMP to prop up the organ stool you cannot play from it at the same time. Heaven save us from 'As the Deer Pants for the Water'.

I don't know about anyone else, but we often have to photocopy pages from our latest edition of Complete Mission Praise as the thing is far too big, and falls off the the organ!

SB

PS: I have just noticed that I have used colour CCCCCC for some of my text. Does that mean this forum has a 128 foot stop somewhere?

Hmm, the trumpet stop shouldn't be used unless the organ was tuned in the last five seconds.
The reeds shouldn't be used unless the organ was tuned in the last hour.

Never mind faux-pas from the organist, why don't they teach them at priesting school about not having weddings during Advent and Lent?

Now, let me think. Something to do with helping to pay the Parish Share perhaps?

There again, look on the bright side; at least the church is warm for organ practice on Saturday afternoons.

You may be OK down there in Costa del Vectis, but it has been a bit brassy up here for the past few months.

SB

Pity about the no reeds in lent rule as Heinlein (40 days and 40 nights) sound so good with the oboes on the swell with the box shut. I suppose you can get away using a diapason chorus on the great for the major key sections of (St Andrew of Crete) but its so refreshing to bring the heavy artillary in for the last verse.

What is this rule about 'no reeds in Lent' please?

I cannot find this in the Church of England Canons. Also, those of the 'high church' persuasion accept that Sundays in Lent are excluded. Or am I missing something? Perhaps it is a local practice. Does it included Oboes and soft Horns as well as Trumpets?

Barry Williams

I've got a really nasty Cornopean on one of the instruments I play. The sound it makes might be described as someone inside a metal dustbin, strangling a cat, while tumbling down a fire escape. I find that the use of this organistic excressence, is the perfect way to dispel any tendency among the people towards relaxation of the required Lenten gloom and despondency.
It was never pointed out to me that certain stops were liturgically constrained in use. Do you think the Great Mixture would be OK though, provided of course that I only draw it with the Dulciana and, stick 'em both down on the pedals ?

We had the Gloria this morning. We weren't supposed to, but I just launched into the intro from absent-minded force of habit, everyone joined in, not a word was said afterwards. Completely forgot to yank out the Cornopean though.

Onwards and ..... one way or another.

Chris Baker - Durham UK

"We had the Gloria this morning. We weren't supposed to.."

The Gloria in sung or recited throughout Lent in the Book of Common Prayer, which remains the principal service book (in the eyes of the law if not the clergy) of the Church of England, for therein is to be found all the theology.

Barry Williams

OK, slightly off topic, mea culpa, but this talk of exotic registrations is putting me in mind of the time we had a dep organist at one of our carol services, who decided a change of registration was probably called for at the beginning of the 'How silently' verse. His frantic attempts to get rid of what was clearly some kind of tuba stop provided a most enjoyable diversion for the choir.

HelenVJ, your story reminds me of a blooper on radio 3 choral evensong years ago - no idea where from - when during a very quiet setting of the nunc dimittis, the organist's little finger unintentionally bumped swell piston 6 (full with reeds) at the words 'Abraham and his seed' - ALMIGHTY BOOM.

Reeds or no reeds? Now I'm REALLY confused!

No matter. The phoned jangled me into wakefulness early yesterday with a message that I would be required to deputise at short notice i.e straight away. No time for a run through and 8 blooming verses in the first hymn - guaranteed for a disaster unless I get helpful signals from 1 of the 2 choir members when I lose count.

So the congregation got a very un-Lenten Stanford Prelude/Postlude in G afterwards, (complete with reeds) which went off rather well, I thought, and I now feel more confident about pulling it off in the exam.

No one has so far called to inform me that roof has fallen in, nor was fruit flung at me.
Maybe punishment will be extracted unto the nth generation but so far, so good.

Really?

It's my understanding that the Gloria (sung or recited) is dropped in favour of the Kyrie during Lent and Advent.
Although I could be wrong.