Hello
I've been away for absolutely ages but am now back with a question about music festivals.
I only recently found out about their existence and my daughter has entered this year but I'm not quite sure what to expect. There are only 3 other children in her class and in fact that seems a lot compared to other classes which only have betweeen 1 and 4 children in each.
I watched a dance festival and that had up to 20 children in each class. I don't really see how it is a proper competition if there are so few entrants. Or is it not about winning but only about the marks you get?
Why so few children? Do only the really good ones enter?

My daughter up to yet, had only entered a music festival held by local music centre and for this they received a verbal appraisal of their performance and then a trophy was given to the winner. A couple of years ago she entered the senior strings section which she won although she was only competing against 4 other people. Last year she entered senior open class and was up against approx 12 others and because she won again, she will no longer be eligible to participate in this particular festival. The standard I would say was average to good, nothing really bad, but then nothing outstanding either. We have however found another music festival in Dudley to participate in which seems to be a different affair altogether. It appears to have every music class under the sun ie. Graded classes, open classes, classes for repetoire of a certain length, recitals etc. etc. It is also a more prestigious festival where the standard of entrant is expected to be much higher, and you apparantly get given a score for your performance which leaves you in a category of achievement ie. Merit, Distinction, Outstanding etc. It appears there may also be cash prizes available.

Although there is obviously a competitive nature to these affairs, I think they are really there as a performance platform to gain experience and feedback from. A good idea to try new grade pieces out before exams as it helps in preparation in dealing with nerves and you can get feedback which can point out strong points in your performance as well as areas which may still need a little work.

To me, the competitive element is the least important bit, the performance experience is far more important, and enjoying the experience.

I honestly think there ought to be more non-competitive music festivals around...

Absolutely 100% agree, I enter the local festival with my students every year and it is all about the performance opportunity. In fact I play down the competitive element so much I've had kids turn up not even knowing it was a competition then were delighted when they were placed in the medals.

I am entering a few festivals this year for a few reasons:

1.) I would like to apply to conservatoires, but have no objective way (so not coming from my teacher) of demonstrating my level/ability, beause I've never taken any exams.

2.) I have been applying for funding for music education, but have no previous performance experience or objective opinions to demonstrate to them that my talent is worthy of their money!

3.) I'm taking my first ever exams in June/July (Grade 8) and December (ATCL) and I am aiming for high marks, but in order for this, I would like to perform my pieces a few times before the exam, so that not only am I familiar with playing them in front of people, but also so that they are of the highest performance standard I can achieve.

4.) Having no experience in exams/grades/competitions, I am quite curious to know how my playing compares to others of my standard.

5.) I need to practice playing in public, as I have only done so once in the past couple of years at a student recital of my teacher's, and I got quite nervous. I would like to pursue a career as a professional pianist, so this is very important for me to start involving myself in.

dance Festivals will have bigger groups because they are based on age. If you saw the oldest class it's 14 and over. If they are anything like the ones the girls took part in the other sections go in two year stages. Some of the competitions combine several age groups and you may find that a child is dancing mor ethan once in each section.

Daughter has only done one music competition last year. It seemed to be quite string biased but as she had to perform earlier than her section due to another committment I can't really make any judgements.

Numbers of entries seem to go down by the year. We're used to classes of one to three entrants. But I'm quite glad as I remember as a child sitting through classes of thirty or more people all playing the same piece. It was excruciating. Festivals are much nicer and firendlier these days. I always stress about it before hand and then wish we'd entered more classes as it's such a pleasant occcasion, whoever wins.

Our local festival is not well publicised and I think that largely accounts for the small numbers. However, it seems to vary a lot from instrument to instrument. The general instrumental classes (woodwind, except recorder, strings, except harp, and brass) seem particularly poorly attended and I think it's really just because many of the local teachers don't know the festival's going on.

Some instruments and classes are organised by age, some by grade, some by type of piece.

My daughter has competed in occasional festivals - singing once at age 7, recorders twice at 8 and 11 and, clarinet once at 11, and will do so again next month. She has very few opportunities for solo performance apart from this, which is why I and her teachers encourage it. I think the most valuable aspect is the feedback from the adjudicator, especially in the recorder classes where the adjudicator is always a specialist (By contrast her clarinet playing last year was adjudicated by a guitarist!). My daughter's in it to win, though, I'm afraid. So far as she is concerned taking the cup home is what it's all about, which is a shame as it hasn't always worked out!!

It's definitely not only the really good ones who enter. I always thought that the whole point of them was to cater for all ability levels. I've competed in a few music festivals: once with my violin and several times with a choir. The festivals the choir used to enter were normally well attended. Lots of choirs and lots of people doing solos, though obviously some of the classes had more entries than others: I suspect that with some of the more obscure classes there were only one or two entrants.

With violin I entered the Glasgow Music Festival when I was 14. I entered "Violin Solos Class C" and came first! The fact that I was the only person in the class is entirely beside the point! There were three girls in class B, and two in class A. I remember being exceptionally nervous, but got a reasonably good mark (have no recollection of what the actual mark was - I'm not sure where the adjudication sheet is now!). There were no medals awarded, and as far as I can recall no certificates either. We were just given a placing and reasonably detailed evaluation. It was fairly relaxed: as there were so few people competing they ran the three classes together; it was just in a room: there was no stage, and we all got to listen to each other playing. I don't think we even had an audience: except for the judges and each other! It was just quite a fun and "safe" introduction to performing, and I think that's the point of it. I was supposed to enter class B the following year, but pulled out as it was so close to my Standard Grade practical exam and I was playing different pieces! The organiser tried to persuade me not to pull out, and even offered to reschedule the class, because, guess what? I was the only competitor again!

I imagine some of the more advanced classes are more competitive and better attended, but I couldn't tell you for sure as I have no experience of them! But they definitely have prizes and winners' concerts and things.

Certainly at the Glasgow Music Festival there were violin solos A, B, C, D, E and F (plus the more advanced classes - Open, String Sonata, String Concerto, Unaccompanied Bach). Class C was definitely a Grade 5 piece, B about grade 6 and A about grade 7/8, if I remember correctly; so working backwards F would be for about Grade 1 or 2, so they really are open for everyone. I'm sure your daughter will enjoy the experience!

Thanks everyone for the information.

My daughter loves to play to an audience so she begged me to let her enter. I was worried that it would be a very serious event but I feel reassured now, thank you!

In our local festival next week we have 224 String entries!

That is not a typo!

It's a VERY exciting day of solos from beginners to Grade 8+ in all kinds of classes - some classified by age, some by level, some by resticted choice eg 'any piece from Fiddle Time Runners', as well as duets, quartets and big groups.

We have 3 rooms running throughout the day. The atmosphere is positive, encouraging and fun. I tell my own students that most people WON'T win, the important thing is do play as well as YOU can. We do have lots of non-competitive classes too.

My daughter has played in many music festivals. Her teacher believed they were a good platform for performance and she valued the feedback given. This was a particuarly good way of getting another point of view on the children's strengths and areas for development. She has been in classes of between 2 and 20 (she is woodwind). I disliked how competitive they could be, especially against many children she regularly played alongside. However my daughter enjoyed them and it gave her another target to improve her playing in between exams and she certainly does not have a fear of performing on her own in front of an audience.

There are many local festivals and as such they vary enormously from the totally informal 'performance opportunity' type to the very seriously competitve. Most fall somewhere in between offering pupils the chance to perform a prepared piece in front of a supportive audience and receive a helpful and constructive adjudicators report of their performance, all for the fraction of the cost (and stress) of a music exam. Pupils often enter more than one class and for regular participants it can become a social as well as strictly musical experience.

Good luck to you and your daughter, I hope she enjoys the experience.

How do you find out about them? And can adult learners enter them?

thanks

You can do an internet search, or ask your music teacher?

I don't know which area of the country you live in, otherwise I could tell you quite a few.

There are festivals that adult learners can enter, although a lot of small local ones cater mostly to school age children.
What you need to look for if you can't find the age range, are the "open" classes - as this means that any can enter.

Mostly they advertise in music magazines (if they are big) or in schools and community centres like churches and halls (if they are smaller).

If you don't mind telling me the region you're in, I might be able to help.
x

How do you find out about them? And can adult learners enter them?

thanks
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Her's a link to UK festivals

http://www.federationoffestivals.org.uk/Af..._Festivals.html

Adults can enter - I remember one very brave adult in a grade 4 ish cello class with about a dozen 10 year olds. She played very well and the adjudicator was extremely positive and supportive about her participation


Go for it - and good luck (I'm not brave enough!)

Yes, that link above is good - I used it to find some of the places I'm entering.

I'm an adult learner and I'm entering 3 festivals this year, doing a total of 7 or 8 classes!

I know that their will be children in some of the classes, and they may even be better than me! But it is a performance opportunity and I tfigure that if I can do it in that situation where I stand out for my age (and height!) then I can do it any where!

Swisscello, there are several within reach of you - ask barry-clari, or we can chat about it when I next see you!

Swisscello, you have mail

Wow, this thread has opened up a whole new avenue. I never knew such things existed.

To go back to the questioner: The competitions must be entered only by the select group of people who know about them. The rest of the potential entrants are completely in the dark! Also, even if I had known of the competition(s), I would expect the teacher to be the one to prompt a player to go in for it, rather than a parent. Surely this is something that the local music services should be pushing.

Looking at the link, it's just a shame that our local music festival happens next week, and the entry date was last January! Still there's always next year.

The only similar knowledge I have is in the world of swimming (daughter's other passion) where we often go to Open Meets (prompted by the club). It would seem that music festivals are the equivalent pay-per-entry competition thing but for players instead of swimmers.

Anyway, thanks for mentioning festivals, as I will definitely keep my eyes open in the future.

Thanks folks for your help. This is really interesting. Thanks also for Bari-clari's pm which I have just answered. I turned this on in my next step towards finding about festivals. Looking at the webpage so helpfully posted I find that the very closest festival should be Blackheath (though I'm investigating the others mentioned). However, there is no web link for this festival. I asked at Blackheath Conservatoire yesterday but they have already had several queries and then had the same problem as myself in trying to contact the organisers. (They had already thrown away last year's syllabus).

Does anyone know if it is running this year and if so how to make contact?

You have another PM

I've usually had information about it by now, and have heard nothing, sadly.

This thread has come along at just the right time. I've just discoved that there's a music festival on in Edinburgh this week and Paul Harris is adjudicating the wind section, so I think I might just pop down and see what it's all about. I might then enter some of my pupils next year. Who know's I might even enter myself!

It doesn't say anything much about having to pay for audience tickets. Are these free? I was planning to just turn up a bit early and ask around. Presumably they welcome audiences apart from those people connected with the performers.

Entry costs £1.00 per session. The programme, which covers the duration of the festival (26 February to 7 March) costs £2.00. Audiences are usually those connected with the performers, certainly in the daytime classes. There are multiple venues across the city, so make sure you get the right one for the class you want. I've turned up at the wrong 'St. Something' church before now! The final concerto competition concert is in the Queen's Hall on 7 February and is worth going to as a member of the public.

Best contact number for the festival is Graeme Humphrey - his number is in the ISM book; or anyone interested can PM me. I think a large number of the committee members changed this year.

Closing date is Mar 9, by the way!

Thanks

My son is entering the grade 2/3 trumpet class at a local festival next week. He decided he wanted to enter, and decided to play 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' as he thought it had a nice contrasting section in the middle. It has no accompaniment (at least the version he has doesn't have one) so I'm hoping that is going to be ok as we have never entered or been to a festival before, and neither has his teacher.

He is player number one - so there could only be him or he could be followed by any number of other brass players - I keep saying it is not a competition, it's a performance opportunity, but I don't think I've convinced him. He originally learnt it a little while ago, so now I'm trying to persuade him it may need a little work to bring it up to scratch - but he is more interested in playing his Star Wars music now!

Wish us luck!

Good luck to your son, 2childmum. I'm sure he'll have a great experience. My daughter has always enjoyed her festival entries and has found that the adjudicators offer lots of constructive criticism in the nicest possible way!

We just got the draft timetable for the woodwind classes at our local festival, where my daughter will play clarinet. It seems she is the only entrant in the Grade 6/7 class, and one of only 2 in the age 12-15 class. So, that takes off a lot of the pressure I think, but it seems a shame that it will be such a small affair when she has worked so hard to prepare her pieces. We will both be involved with the recorder classes the following week. Seems strange that local recorder players can fill almost a whole day of competition while, despite the fact that we are in a big city, the other woodwind players can only fill an hour and a bit. In fact the guitar, woodwind, brass and string classes have all been fitted into one day with a single adjudicator...

Festivals are great, if used properly!

All teachers will know about them, even if they don't admit it! Adult entrants are welcome, if you are not sure then contact the entry secretary and they will advise which classes would be appropriate.

My children have played in them and I help out at one of the bigger ones. We have always used them to try out pieces before an exam or an audition. You get a written adjudication to take home with certificate, a mark and some of your adjudication will be done at the end of the class. Someone will win but it isn't always about that!

My youngest is now 6th form age and still enters to get a fresh opinion on how he is doing. He sets himself a target of what mark he thinks he should get and tries to achieve it. Sometimes he is in a class of 6 or so, sometimes on his own. His teacher gets him to work on, as well as the actual playing, presentation. How to stand, where to look . . . to look happy, relaxed and to be able to talk in a relaxed manner about his pieces. Obviously this is more appropriate for advanced recitals (he is taking his diploma soon) but I know the adjudicators like to see a young player come up and say "Good morning, I am going to play . . . " and then smile at the audience.
It is a great way to learn how to perform. An occasion springs to mind where my son made an almighty error at the end of a long showy difficult piece which had been superb up until that moment, however he beamed at the audience shook hands with pianist and bowed, beaming the whole time. Even I who had heard that piece a million times thought perhaps he had done it on purpose, the adjudicator loved it !

The downside I'm afraid to say is often the other parents who get very competitive. Most are lovely but I've known some who sit in the front row wincing at every mistake, conducting their children , and storming out when they don't like the marks.

My advice is go in with the right approach ie this is a fresh opinion on how I'm doing (and it is only human to think If someone has to win I hope it's me . . .but don't make that the reason to be there..) Also if you haven't got the courage to play go and listen to a class and especially listen to the adjudications, you will learn so much. If you are entering go and listen beforehand and get an idea of what that adjudicator likes to see and hear. Some like accuracy, some prefer a bit of flair , risk taking, some like you to smile and look happy. They all have their own thing; posture, breathing, phrasing, dynamics etc and you can work on those before your own turn at performing

It probably just reflects the culture among the local music teachers - maybe the woodwind teachers etc just aren't tuned in to the festival (or does it clash with the exam timetable maybe?) It is always a bit disappointing when classes turn out to be really small - a big part of the attraction for me is hearing other people play and getting ideas for repertoire. Very few people seem to enter the piano duet and trio classes, for instance - seems a shame when they can be such fun. I remember going to classes with dozens of entrants when I was learning...

Gosh how awful! I can't imagine anyone behaving like that!

Bring some students down to the Forest of Dean Music Festival on 4th and 5th July Sue! it has been highly successful over the past 3 years as a brass band style solo competition (over 160 entrants last year) but there has not been anything for woodwind, strings, piano or vocal - until this year.

I am hoping that there will be good numbers in each class so that everyone can listen to some repertoire etc. Some of the woodwind players in the Forest of Dean Area Wind band have entered so far but that is because I have nagged them as their conductor not because their teachers are encouraging or preparing them.

There are a handful of pianists entered so far but it's still quite early days - the sechedules went out about 2 weeks ago. Closing date is 1st May.

PM me for a schedule.

I can, unfortunately. I haven't done any music festivals for many years, and it's something my son hasn't got into, but I don't think some of those parents are any different from some 'sporting' parents, and I've seen a few dears at swimming galas reduce their children to tears if they don't perform as well as the parents think they ought to. At least they can't argue with an electronic timer

Yup, the hideously competitive parents are there, whatever the occasion, making idiots of themselves and embarrassing their offspring. I've been snubbed by another parent because my child got a better mark..

I'm really looking forward to this year's local festival - the powers that be have introduced some non-competitive classes (hoorah!) - I've entered three parent and child duos in the piano duet classes
- one child is a natural performer, loves showing off, but gets frustrated when he doesn't get the marks he thinks he deserves
- one child has never performed in public so far, very reluctant, but has finally agreed to do this class (maybe..jury is still out on whether he will actually do it on the day!)
- one child struggles and wouldn't do well in a competitive class with others of his age, but has already prepared a lovely duet with his Mum.

Perfect for all three! Hopefully it will be an enjoyable and social class with a supportive atmosphere.

Seen it at dance festivals too. Usually it's the teacher that stands at the back doing the arm movements to remind the poor soul on stage.

Son and daughter have supported our local festival for 3 years. There are pros and cons to these festivals and we've been on both sides!

Daughter took part in a local (ish) music festival last year in only one class. We were completely new to it then and didn't really know how it all worked. She found the comments of the adjudicator quite unfair and very critical and it took her a while to bounce back from it. The adjudicator was a brass player judging a strings section, and some of his comments were quite unusual. The organisation of the festival wasn't that great and everytime we asked a question of the organisers, we were told by the music secretary, 'Oh you have so many questions! If I had to answer everyone's questions, I wouldn't get any work done ever'.

This year, she is entered in another festival by her teacher in two classes. In one of the solo open classes, she is one of only 2 entrants (the other being 5 years older and at a much higher level) so not sure how that will go as she's quite nervous about it. The class is also scheduled for 9.15 pm in the evening which isn't good for a young child. We'll see...

I think festivals are quite a good experience in performing in front of unfamiliar audience, and to gain self-cofidence, and I think it should only be seen as that.

I find it quite disconcerting when parents start losing perspective and getting competitive- something about 'living through your children' comes to mind.

It is worth remembering that they are Festivals first and foremost, NOT competitions - and should be a celebration of music, not a cut-throat contest. Unfortunately, some areas, parents and organising committees might be guilty of forgetting this. If you are unfortunate enough ever to find one like this, don't go there again. I used to have to endure one of those - annually - as a child and it took me a looooong time to convince myself that festivals can be a fun and enriching experience.

Now I am fortunate to have a very supportive and well supported Festival on my doorstep ..... and have a very busy week ahead in a couple of weeks time.

This is exactly why I have re-named the Forest of dean solo, Duet, Quartet & Ensemble Championship and incorporated into the new music festival this year - you wouldn't believe how competitive the brass players can get! The brass competition will be held on a separate day from the other disciplines as I suspect this competitive nature is just too far ingrained for most to be able to treat the festival as a festival and I want a positive, supportive environment for all involved. If the brass are unable to do that then best they are on their own

Thanks Helen : a mass change of committee members is probably why I've not heard anything...

This sort of thing can happen in grade exams too! I've never forgotten one of my son's recorder exams, which took place in a house. The waiting room was the lounge, and the examining room shared a wall with it. When her daughter went in to play, a mother shushed at the rest of us and went and stood with her ear against the wall, giving us a running commentary on everything her daughter was doing wrong (there didn't appear to be much she was doing right)! Then when the poor girl emerged, she gave her an earful in front of everyone! I felt so sorry for the girl , who stood looking dreadfully embarrassed.

Felt a bit sorry for my son, too, who was next in. It's not very relaxing to listen to someone's anguished running commentary just before you go in to play yourself!

Hi - we've just got back from our local music festival where my son played trumpet in the brass grade 2/3 class. He was the only entrant, which was a shame, but played well and gained an honours certificate and gold medal. The adjudicator was a bassoon player, but understood the particular problems of brass instruments and gave very constructive feedback in a positive way. Playing unaccompanied was not a problem, although he did get faster and faster through the piece, so from that point of view an accompianiment may have been useful! Other parents were friendly (not that there were many there), so it was a positive experience overall.

Not sure if we'll do it again, thought - I'm not sure i like the competitative element!

Festivals are a great idea! However, there are still some adjudicators who really do not understand the concept of constructive criticism.

I entered some students for a festival a couple of years ago. For a couple it was their first performing experience. The adjudicator took great pleasure in pointing out the faults of each and every one of them, irrespective of age.

I appreciate that this can sometimes be ok for students who are preparing to enter conservatoire, to prepare them for the reality of the cometitiveness and criticism. However, is this really appropriate for 9 year olds, or those older students who are playing for pleasure and just relish a performance opportunity?

I gave the next year a miss and have since heard that children had a similar experience with a different adjudicator. Is this acceptable?

It has seemed to me that festival adjudicators are a lot more positive now than they were when I was a child. Yes, they do mention things which could be improved, but they do say something nice about each performance.

My view might be a bit rose-coloured today as I spent part of the afternoon at a local festival with a pupil and was delighted when she won her class.

I have also spent the afternoon at a 'once-local' music festival with a primary school group. The children had worked really hard and played brilliantly - but did not win their class because the other groups (Independant School) were wearing their school uniform and my school (Inner City community school) doesn't have one...

I appreciate the idea of presentation being important, but they were told their performance was very well presented. I'm not usually one to gripe about these things, but I feel this has sent out the wrong message to these children. They now believe that it isn't the hard work and musical results that matter - it's what you look like that counts. I think that's rather sad...

W

But how would you know that that was the reason? Did the adjudicator not also give musical reasons as to why the groups were awarded the marks they were? Perhaps, in his view, the other groups played that bit better, and the fact that they were wearing their uniforms is purely coincidental. I hope the experience has given your group something to aim for, and that they won't feel disappointed for too long.

I agree and I had assumed that myself, but at the end of the competition the adjudicator's assistant came and apologised and told me that it was the uniform issue that had decided the result. Indeed, the adjudicator said the same to 'my' parents afterwards. Parents from the other groups came to me afterwards and said they didn't understand the result - which was nice of them.


Obviously I have no wish to dwell on this (although I think some of my outraged parents may feel differently) and will be making a great fuss of the children for their hard work. I have always played down the competetive element anyway so I'm sure they will soon bounce back.

W

I know I'm not a parent, but I do have some answers to this question!! The festivals I have participated in have been immensely helpful in improving my technique etc, because the adjudicators always give feedback and often mark the participants too, so it would give your daughter the experience of being marked under pressure. As for competition, I was once in a festival where I was the only person in my class, but I got a lot out of it anyway!

The festival is over now and I have to say what a fantastic experience. The adjudicator was so helpful in showing the children where they had basic errors in their technique which it is so important to correct earlier rather than be stuck with bad habits later. She was at great pains to accentuate the positives in everyone's playing and conveyed the negative points in a friendly manner so that no-one felt they were being critisised.

My daughter thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience - I asked her what the best part was - and she said it was listening to the comments of the adjudicator, not just for herself but for the other children too!

We've been at a festival today, too. My daughter's performances went well. As she picked two pieces that she finds reasonably difficult, I was just relieved that she managed to play all the notes!! Her teacher didn't agree with the adjudicator's comments that she should have played with greater subtlety, however.... I'm not sure who is right about this.

And we met Appassionata there with some of her pupils, so it was nice to identify a fellow forumite .