I am not yet at this stage as all of my children are still at primary. However, it is concerning that it seems very few state secondary schools have good, enthusiastic and enjoyable music teaching.
I seem to remember reading somewhere (or maybe I dreamt it?!) that if a child is more than two years ahead of their peers in a subject they are concidered "Gifted and talented". I would imagine this would apply to many of the children that are discussed in this forum. Therefore the school should be made to show how they are supporting and developing their talents!
Failing this, maybe GCSE music could be taken at the area music schools for those children who are able to take it early. That way these children (who must be able to be taking it early!) will be supported by interested and talented teachers. Then if the school had any sense they would offer instrumental teaching for these children during the normal music lesson at school.
Lets just hope that these talented children don't give up because they are bored or frustrated!
Kris

Our local Music Service don't offer GCSE Music. I gather they thought about it but I think most of the other local schools manage to deliver the course without too many problems.

In some ways my daughter is very lucky as there are lots of opportunities to work with top orchestras. There have been things going on with an orchestra that our local council support both through school and the music service. There's no question of her giving up.

From what I can gather it's not uncommon for music teachers to be weak at delivering there subject. I do suspect though that the vast majority do an excellent job. I think we have been unlucky to find one who isn't motivated and not interested in the subject.

It angers me that my child didn't get the support or teaching needed to pass the GCSE Music, but I'm sure she will get a C or above. I find it more concerning that the teacher is putting off lots of her peers, none of the children find her approachable, some of them will be musical or may have enjoyed music making under different circumstances.

The other big positive is that the children, in her year, all respect my daughter's talent. I know in some schools anyone a bit different (not that she is in any other way) would have to suffer bullying. They wouldn't be in demand to work with.

This is all so frustrating! I have just heard that one of my better students can't take A Level Music as it clashes on his timetable. At his school, there were only 3 students planning to take the A Level, and they had common choices with one another so I can't see that it would have been that difficult to sort. However, I suspect that music was seen as very low priority and so can't be worked out. What a waste!

He will however be studying jazz piano with me having learned the oboe for the past 5 years. I hope to produce a musician who is able to enjoy his music making whilst pursuing other interests professionally.

I think the move to specialist status schools has some responsibility in this - yes, we have some fantastic schools where music is really high priority, but this has been at the expense of other local schools, where music is now a very marginal subject, and only taught at all because the National Curriculum says it has to be (at the moment).

I also see this as a parent - my son will be moving to secondary in a couple of years. Our local school is very bad for music, but the one down the road, absolutely fantastic for music, is very over-subscribed - oh the fun to come!

And knowing the way these things work, by the time your son's old enough to do A-level the school you fought to get him into will have lost its fine Head of Music, changed its Headteacher and decided it wants to specialise in Modern Languages; whilst the despised school has acquired very keen Music teachers, a more supportive Head and is swiftly becoming the school for Music in your area.

You can't win as a parent; it's like supermarket queues - whichever you decide to join will turn out to be the wrong one!

Well the GCSE Music is almost over, listening paper on Wednesday, and there's still several weeks before daughter ditches school music forever.

I am slightly worried about what will happen next. Daughter wants to be removed from the lesson but I don't think school will do this. The Teacher tried to play something on Piano for my daughter's class. She thinks it's amusing that they are still discussing the mess that was made of it nearly a week later (others in the class rather than her).

Any suggestions about what next before it develops into another big scene.

The class are playing a simple version of Heartbeat on on the keyboards at the moment.

Good luck for your daughter with the listening tommorrow. I finished marking all the coursework today, not sure if I should tell them the results before they go in. Thing is, they've all got around 150-160 already, so the usual average peformance can only give them a C, one has an outside chance of a B.

I think this is the first year that we've had the listening exam BEFORE coursework due in. I'll be reminding them to check the back of the paper to see if the answers are there, as some of them were last year.

Thanks!

Daughter handed in her coursework six weeks ago and has not been given any feedback whatsoever, not that I'm suprised by this. I would have at least expected it to be checked that we used the correct forms and maybe been told something about the one we didn't complete. I hope the moderator realises it's the Teacher's failing.

I've persuaded her to go to the lesson tomorrow to ask for her marks. I bet the Teacher says she doesn't know.

Well, it wasn't too bad. A couple of tricky parts to questions and where they combined traditions not done before.

She wasn't sure about the dance and whether it was a Pavane or not. To be honest the only real teaching she's had is 10 or 11 hour lessons with a tutor. I was going to write the whole listening paper off at one point until I found someone to help with it (he's not a classroom teacher but has done very well with her).

The Teacher has surpassed herself again, refused to tell them their marks, making the excuse that they have already gone to the exam board. As if she wouldn't keep a record to check where they have been moderated. I hate being treated like an idiot, even if it's my child rather than me.

I phoned school today and gave them fair warning to expect a letter to the governors which I'm going to compile over the next few days. The year 11's had a whole revision booklet where daughter has only had stupid coloured cards with words on. They would have been fine if there had been any attempt to deliver the underpinning knowledge but useless as there wasn't.

I think I'm right in this, but the school HAVE to keep a copy of the marks, as they keep the bottom copy of the OPTEMS sheet that is sent with the coursework.

Yes, it was a Pavane.

Thank you for that on the marks.

She will be pleased. They also had a debate about which instrument came in on the end of the plainchant. Emsoboe thought it was a Sax, someone else a horn, there was a third opinion that I can't remember.

It was a sax. It was the Jan Gabarek recordings from the early 1990s where he improvises (one of the answers) in between lines of either plainchant or lines from early renaissance polyphony.

I can't remember the last time we had true/false questions in a GCSE exam.

Wow!! I know she put improvisation as one of the answers. It really threw the whole of the group this discussion is the only time she has felt part of the group (not their fault). She'll be delighted that she got the Sax answer right too.

The style was something she hadn't come across before. She could really impress the Music Teacher with that bit of information Seriously nothing would impress her

This situation has never really gone away.

It has infact come full circle. In the last class lesson Emsoboe was given a Piano Book to sight read. It was really difficult and there was only one piece that she could attempt. It's unlike her as she usually gives most things a go.

It's taken a lot work on the part of her current Piano Teacher to engage her in learning Piano and I'm cross that the school teacher even attempted to do this.

I have requested the complaints proceedure and esculated it to the next stage.

Yesterday i arrived home from work to find a letter from the Head Teacher stating I "have unreasonable expectations".

If they knew they couldn't cover more than 10% of the listening paper, weren't going to be able to offer feedback on compositions or give advice about the brief's and appraisal. Why offer the subject to a child?

She did hint also that my daughter would do very well in the examSo I'm assuming she has seen her coursework marks,or been advised of a prospective grade. This is more than we have. It's also no thanks to the teacher.

This is the most important point, I think, that it was their idea not yours, and therefore they should have provided appropriate support.

Do you think you will still have the inclination and strength to pursue this complaint once, as I understand it, Emsoboe finishes with school music lessons in just a few weeks? I'm not at all saying you shouldn't, I'm just curious - I'm not sure I could face it!

Thanks David!

I gave them every chance to make this go away. I've logged the complaint with Governor Services and they are passing it to the Schools Improvement Team. I expect that I will hear from the governors soon.




It was their idea. They suggested she did it in a year intiially and then it was over two. I asked (didn't push) if she could take it early but they agreed by making her sit the mock. They wouldn't let her back out either, when they couldn't deliver) even though they were aware that she had my support.

I was wondering myself if I had the strength but after the letter from the Head you can bet that I have.

I had to laugh today, the Teacher gave her the 12 Bar Blues to learn in the class lesson. It must have come from sort of pack as it had GCSE on it in someway. Good job she has been able to play it for 3 years. Kind of makes a bit of a mockery of the fact that all the GCSE work had been covered.

What a mess this whole thing has been because of the behaviour of the school. I'm sure Emsoboe is glad it is over.
I hope she gets a great result but mostly I'm glad she survived it and it is over.
Dora

I've got a meeting with the Chair of governors this afternoon.

He is supposed to be investigating the incident. Not expecting too much as he hasn't asked to see any of daughter's books or folder of handouts. The Head isn't available to be there, and I suspect as she's known this for quite sometime, that it's been manipulated that way.

When I spoke to the Chair a couple of weeks ago he said it was a panel of 3 Governors but I can't get a straight answer as to who I'm meeting with. It seems like it's possibly going be just the Chair and the same deputy who's had no impact all along.

In August (I don't exaggerate) my Daughter's achieved grade in Music was 4a. After I pointed this out in November it steadily climbed. The achievement sheet from two weeks ago states she's a 7b. Yesterday she had sight of her report which indicates an 8 and predicted A* at GCSE. The blurb says the grades are supposed to rise on average one every two years......... The report was possibly produced before the target sheet

As she has still not had any marks/feedback on her coursework, Performances or Compositions I am very suspicious. I wonder if it will be A* or B (which I think under the circumstances is realistic) when we actually get the result. Even a B is more through luck than design as I've since discovered important things that she should have been told and wasn't. One through this Forum and another accidently via another Music Teacher.

Can't figure out how a school who can't even answer a simple question straight can get an outstasnding ofsted report in all areas. I wonder if they should include communication as one of them.

Good luck this afternoon.
Beth is striking out with independence. The Staffordshire Music Centre did a small end of year concert, to which I was invited and went. Only when her name was announced did I discover she was doing a solo. She said afterwards she thought it would be a nice surprise.
School have also asked her to do a solo at a joint venture with the local special needs school. It seems I can let her get on with it. Go Beth Go.
And very good luck this afternoon. What a difference between the two schools.
Dora

Thanks!! More of the same unfortunately, Saint Music Teacher, the Chair of Governors was standing in fot the Head as they didn't have an acceptable complaints proceedure. All very odd!!

Thanks!! More of the same unfortunately, Saint Music Teacher, the Chair of Governors was standing in fot the Head as they didn't have an acceptable complaints proceedure. All very odd!!
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Yuck. Well at least music with school is over.
I guess the question is whether Emsoboe will continue to play at all in school or not. I guess she will have to do what makes her comfortable.
Dora

The whole thing seems to be a massive cover up - the school seems very adept at sweeping things under the carpet...It's no wonder no one takes music for GCSE, there.

No complaints procedure? Thats very odd and having read the rest of this I wouldn't be surprised if that is not entirely accurate. I would have thought it was an important ofsted criterion as its an easy tick box exercise for them to ask to see complaints procedures (together with elfen safety etc).

A quick play with google provides lots of school complaints procedures.

Hi, I'm a school governor as well as music teacher, and schools should certainly have a complaints policy amongst all their other policies. Were you only seen by the Chair of Governors? Not necessarily wrong in itself, but I guess if you're still unhappy (or more like you feel you have the energy!) you could ask to be seen by a panel of governors.

If they have outstanding in all areas then I would expect a Complaints Procedure to be in place, and would ask serious questions if it wasn't.

All the best with wherever this whole scenario takes you!

Sorry I didn't mean to mislead they have a complaints proceedure but the levels are out of step with LEA. The complaint to Governors according to school policy goes to a panel and the meeting with the Chair is missed out. I think they have been advised by the LEA to put this step in. I also suspect that whilst I've complained to the Head, she hasn't actually dealt with it so the LEA have considered this a missed stage too. I'm not really interested in that aspect I just want them to acknowledge they could have done more for my child.

I've probably achieved something if it's only a redraft of the complaints proceedure

I have to wait now to be told what the Chair of Governors thinks before I can appeal to the panel. He gave the impression that he'd decided long before coming to the meeting that the teacher was right.

He was pushing to get my opinion of the teacher which I've held off giving. I thought it was better to concentrate on the facts. He pushed a bit too hard and I told him that she was the laziest teacher in the school I had the nerve to suggest the Head had possibly not been involved because the teacher was unmanagable...... All my resolutions to be professional at an end

I've to phone the board to ask them if teacher's are allowed to give out the marks for coursework. I've then to let school know, but they don't believe anything I tell them anyway, even when it's written down in black and white.

One thing he asked me was if I'd be ok if daughter got a good result. That was never the point because I was prepared to get as much help as possible to prevent a bad one.

I think you were behaving very professionally not to give your opinion, but sometimes enough is enough and I think I would've done the same

Perhaps the board would put their reply in writing - they might be harder to ignore.

Given that the mark schemes are public documents, I find it hard to accept why a school would hide the mark from a pupil unless a)it was so awful it might not be good for confidence or b)the teacher doesn't really know how good the work is. Working towards mark schemes is not the best method of teaching at all, but the kids should know roughly which mark band their work falls into with some guidance from the teacher.

I think in this case the teacher has no idea how to mark the compositions. She has been in post at the school for at least 6 years and presumably has delivered the syllabus for part of that (it isn't a new to the school syllabus). She hasn't even given a grade band such as A or B.

I'm a bit upset as they don't seem to realise that not giving the form for the brief and appraisal is serious. We had to download it ourselves form the internet. the teacher claims that she has to wait for the examination officer to pass the form to her. She's lying through her teeth and it's being swallowed hook line and sinker.

Classic that she couldn't mark final compositions because they weren't always brought to the lesson. They were handed in a full month before the deadline date. It took her six weeks to mark the original one and that was only because I pushed for it and it was largely done in class. She didn't give her a mark out of the correct value and there was no advice on what to improve. The whole thing has been a joke.





The staff in the school are generally fine and my daughter has a lot of friends there. She is doing well in other subjects particularly maths. Her form class are amzingly supportive of her musicality. They are interested in what she is doing and that could be so different elsewhere. They are giving the Teacher a hard time in class music lessons partly because of how she treats my daughter but mainly due to her inability to play "Happy Birthday" on Piano.

What I find really staggering is that the management can't see the problem. Next year GCSE music isn't running as only 3 people opted for it, there will be none year 11's. I think I'd like to be paid full salery for 20 lessons teaching a week.

It's not due to lack of musical interest but the teacher's personality.

It's not that easy to take it beyond school, you have to go through the complaints process and school didn't get that quite right. I've logged the complaint with the LEA and the school improvement officer has been called in. Not hopeful as she's a teflon practised liar.

What a sweetheart (did she know you'd be quaking with nerves if you'd known?)

notmusimum: I can't believe the horrors you have had to put up with, and it's a credit to you and your daughter that you're both still positive and sane. With regard to giving out coursework marks, we've found (two schools we've been gratefully and almost completely <nothing's perfect around here!> happy with), that sometimes they're given and sometimes not - I've no idea why and thought perhaps it was down to whether the teachers marked them for later moderation, or whether the board did the marking. E.g with last child going through, we had them for GCSE history, the sciences and the Englishes, French, etc., but not maths and textiles - but both were at least as good as hoped. We haven't this year had A/S music coursework marks - that's AQA - yet did get them for sciences which were a mix of boards but not AQA. (But given the music assessed work is 50%, it was maybe better not to have known before the written exam!)

Our case is completely different to yours, as we had support and encouragement, but it's faintly possible that it's in order for you not to get the marks... it would be nice if just one thing were normal in your sorry situation.

I've spoken to the board and they advise teachers not to give out the FINAL mark. I think that is reasonable given the moderation situation. I'm not sure that I would have expected the mark in that sense. What I would have wanted was an estimated grade. I wouldn't have objected to C/D or along those lines. It's not intenede to excuse the teacher ffrom giving any results and many teachers give the actual marks out.

I think the teacher is taking the advice too literal. As it stands we have no idea of the mark likely to be achieved.

What the OCR expect is that students get ongoing support from the teacher including with the Compositions and advice about performances. None of which was done, this is clear as well from their syllabus.

More pressing is the fact daughter is once again being sat at the back of a double classroom. I have spoken to school about this before and they acknowledged it was causing distress. they identified the need to do it was because of the GCSE. Does anyone have the slightest clue how I can get this stopped?

I hasten to add that she is not being isolated because of any bad behaviour. She's being left to her own devices with a keyboard and headphones.

I'm sure your daughter must be distressed about this as she must feel she is being isolated as some sort of punishment.

On the other hand, does she really want to be more involved in the class music lessons? Your previous posts suggest she's not likely to get much out of them other than boredom and frustration. Presumably there are not too many weeks to the end of term and music lessons account for a relatively small proportion of her timetable. I know it's easy for me to say, but I think if I was in your shoes I'd be extremely sympathetic regarding my daughter's predicament, but I'd encourage her to try to grin and bear it for the small amount of time remaining to the end of the school year.

I'm not really sure what daughter wants, but I do know the size of the room will make it very isolating. Psycologically the teacher shouldn't be allowed to do this to a child. I can see if someone is in need of time out or is being disruptive then it would make sense. She put up with it for weeks during the GCSE and when she told her form teacher about it, it did stop. I think twice is once to much for it to be happening again and I don't see why should have to be put through this for another 3 or so lessons.

I wouldn't object if she was merely sat at the back of the class but given the size of the room can see her point.

To be honest I think this is emotional abuse even if it is only in a 45 minuite lesson once a week..

But I can't help feeling this teacher is just a crazy woman trying to provoke a reaction..

I agree with the crazy woman but I'm not sure she is trying to provoke a reaction. It's almost as if she is unable to see the problems her actions cause. I think a rational person would have attempted to play along before now. I suspect she is running her own agenda and doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

Can she take a book in to read? I know my boys have been 'guilty'of something similar.

She actually took in the CPG book at the time she was doing the GCSE and wasn't allowed to use it.

She is sat at the back with a keyboard and headphones. She sort of understood why she was removed from the class stuff last week even though it did upset her. They were recording something they had spent the previous 5 weeks learning. They are working on TV themes which meant learning to play one hand of Heartbeat on the Keyboard. This week they are playing Mission Impossible on Keyboard and she doesn't understand why despite the fact there is space she has to sit a long way from everyone else.

I have every respect for your daughter. By this stage, I think I would be skipping every single music lesson to make my point!

Please say she no longer has to endure this teacher after the end of this academic year?

I absolutely agree this is emotional abuse and I think being made to sit in isolation for 45 minutes is a considerable hardship for a 14 year old girl.
If teachers wish to be considered to be professionals, and they should, then they must behave as such. They are the adult in this situation and must behave as such. The obviously solution would be to allow Emsoboe to go to a practice room with an instrument but I remember that that isn't allowed either.
I would invoke the school's bullying policy myself.
Dora




I don't get nervous for her. I think she is just starting to find her feet and operate independently of me which I strongly encourage. In the last few weeks I've stopped attending flute lessons and that seems to be working well and the whole of this academic year I've not been called upon to comment on each scale as it is practiced which is very good so I think it is just one more example of her increasing independence.
Her father did point out that if she'd told him he'd have made the effort to get there in time. I don't really get that. If she's playing then I'm there. It doesn't matter if it is a solo or not.
Dora

I agree. She's abusing her position of authority and it's deliberate. It doesn't matter whether Emsoboe has three lessons left with her or thirty - it's unacceptable.

No she won't have to put up with her after this year. I don't know what I would have done if this was to go on any longer.

What I find total madness is the government wanting to put more power into the hands of Head Teachers. At the moment there is no one or no organisiation who can make this type of behaviour stop. I've tried Children's Services the Department for Children Schools and Families but there is no authority that can intervene. I don't mind the school having control of it's own destiny but there has to be some accountability.

She was in that situation for about 12 weeks before, maybe more, with any luck there is only one lesson left (activity week and visits to Primary Schools with Band). I don't find it acceptable for that one lesson especially as the teacher puts the children who misbehave in that position. It's a punishment for having a talent (more than the rest of the group).

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No she won't have to put up with her after this year. I don't know what I would have done if this was to go on any longer.

What I find total madness is the government wanting to put more power into the hands of Head Teachers. At the moment there is no one or no organisiation who can make this type of behaviour stop. I've tried Children's Services the Department for Children Schools and Families but there is no authority that can intervene. I don't mind the school having control of it's own destiny but there has to be some accountability.

She was in that situation for about 12 weeks before, maybe more, with any luck there is only one lesson left (activity week and visits to Primary Schools with Band). I don't find it acceptable for that one lesson especially as the teacher puts the children who misbehave in that position. It's a punishment for having a talent (more than the rest of the group).
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No. It is a punishment for having more talent than the teacher!!!!
I had a maths teacher like that. She knew and I knew that I was smarter than she was. Not good.
I'm glad it is soon over.
Dora

And I had a French teacher when I was in the sixth form who used to make me sit by myself right at the back of a huge classroom as a way of "encouraging" me to participate more

Perhaps it was a relative of the music teacher. I take it the method worked for you as much as it does for Emsoboe?

It did indeed But I was so embarrassed about the whole thing that I didn't tell my parents until right at the end of the upper sixth when she only gave us the date of our oral exam the day before (even though there were various things we were supposed to learn for it) on the pretext that I would have been nervous if she had told me in advance

She was head of department and we had her for almost all our lessons but she refused to write me a reference when I applied to study French at university, claiming that I would never be able to speak it (I had to get one of the other teachers to write it instead). And like Emsoboe's teacher she was blatantly unfair. Since we are on a music forum, a music-related example. In an exam we had to translate the word "sunk" at the time I was playing Debussy's "Sunken Cathedral" so I translated it by "engloutti." She wanted to know where I had got "this ridiculous word" from and when I said Debussy she said in a voice dripping with irony "And who might this Debussy chappie be when he's at home?"

At least Emsoboe is having these problems at GCSE rather than A level. When I got my PhD from a French university I rather wished I knew where she was so I could write to her saying "Do you remember you said I'd never be able to speak French, well..."

Got a letter from the Chair of GOvernors this morning. Pretty much what I expected. Everything was done for the best and the poor music teacher misunderstood.

I read through it quickly this moring before leaving to taxi to Recorder lesson. Something struck me as odd but my brain wasn't in gear. A few minutes ago it struck me.... The letter claims schiool "works closely with RNCH" I was still asleep and thought this was an organisation I hadn';t heard of. about 5 mins ago it came to me they meant RNCM The firs initial is the same, second should be M the third and fourth is for Childrens Hospital

It was worth complaining for the laugh

Bless 'em.
They really are clueless.
Dora

Hi. I had followed this thread all the way through and would be interested to know how your daughter did in her GCSE music.

I don't know how but she got an A*........

I have followed it up with the governors but the last communication I got was more of the same so I can't be bothered to reply.