Is a 'lady's violin' the same as a 7/8 size violin?

I'm looking into buying a new violin over the next 6 months and i know someone who's selling hers, which is a 'lady's violin'. I haven't seen or played it yet though so i don't know much about it - though it did get her through chethams, and the royal academy of music and various other things so it must be pretty nice

Is it a 7/8 violin, or a little bigger than a 7/8 violin? There's a girl in my string group who's about 13 and she has a 7/8 violin and it looks visibly quite a bit smaller, sounds lovely though from what i've heard. And the obvious question coming up - is there a comprimise in sound? I've read mixed things all over the internet. I guess i'll have to wait and see when i try it but it'd be nice to hear what others think
I'm tiny (like 5ft1 and just generally have a really small frame) so it'd be good for me i guess!

I played a 7/8 violin for a while (a Gliga Gama actually which was very nice but did sound 'green' because it was brand new) and quite a few people said to me "oh that's a 'lady's violin'. I supposed it was the same thing.

I bought it because my fingers were just not stretching on the full-size but strangely after just under a year I started to find my Dad's full size more comfortable and the stretching became less of a problem. That's when I bought Martha who is 4/4.

Maybe it's something to try out first - I found the difference noticeable.

When we were looking to get a new violin for my daughter we looked very briefly at 7/8 violins or Lady's violins as they are sometimes known. I don't think anything is compromised from the sound point of view because of the size (you can get considerable differences between different full size violins anyhow), but what is apparent is if you are looking to trade the violin in at a later stage, then you may have trouble getting rid of it. Full size violins come in all sorts of measurements. My daughter is only 4'11 and manages on a full size easily. Before committing I would compare your friends with a few full size first. If you fall in love with the sound of your friends violin though and you are looking to keep it indefinitely, as long as the price is reasonable then why not.

I am barely 5ft, not even 5ft1 yet and I have a Strad madel (ie big) 4/4...my arms+hands are also disproportionately small. I would advise not buying a smaller model than necessary unless you're not planning on performing solo on it much. It's hard to find smaller violins that project as well as full size ones. I did have a 7/8 Tononi for a while on loan, and had to give it back as the sound was simply too small for concert halls, although for practicing it was ideal. A lady's is usually just a scaled down 4/4, slightly different size to a 7/8, but of course with model variations you can find exceptions to this. Unless you plan to just play in orchestras, or have a real physical problem like unflexible joints, it should be possible to increase your flexibility through various specific violin exercises so that you can cope with a 4/4. After all, you see many soloists who are no bigger than 5ft with small build (particularly far eastern females) who cope fine.

Hmm.... I'm not an expert but my neice developed repetitive stress syndrome and, after trying all sorts of things, switched back to a 7/8ths. However, I do agree with the earlier poster- that over time you may find it easier to stretch. I had lots of difficulty with my cello (see an old thread somewhere about violas I think) developing a pain in my left hand. For a while I played a 7/8th belonging to my teacher (in the case of cellos these are often called ladies cellos) but it wasn't a very good instrument. I considered various things including buying a better smaller cello in the end I decided to take the cheapest option and had my own cello altered (thinning the finger board although this was only a few millimetres it did the trick). You may be able to stretch but you definitely don't want to damage yourself - better to start wiht something smaller and change later if you want/ need to.

Like I said, for some people it's not possible to use a 4/4 but usually these people are in the minority, or haven't been correctly shown the exercises to stretch the hand. There are a lot of techniques that are considered "normal" on violin which for us smaller people must be altered slightly. You really need a teacher who understand this and has a very deep knowledge of violin technique and the etude repertoire in order to gain the extra flexibility to play a 4/4. I agree that changing later might be a good option while you develop your flexibility though. As a start, look at double stop scales including fingered octaves, glissando single-scale 3rds+6ths, and the exercises outlined in Ricci's LH technique book.

I also currently play on a strad model and i wouldn't say i have particular problems either except sometimes up in the higher positions on the G string but, who doesn't It's not that i'm having problems with the 4/4, it's just the violin i was 'offered' is a lady's violin so i was just wondering about the differences.
I'll wait to find out the price when she gets it valuated (i don't even know if it'll be in my price range yet or anything though the person who told me about it thinks it could be) and then i'll try it, and find out then
I'll also go to my luthier and try some of his 4/4 violins and compare.

The reasoning going on in my weird head was that when i play viola, then go back to violin it's soo much nicer to play something smaller and, until i've gotten back used to the size of it, it feels like i could do anything on it E.g. the beginning part of the czardas on the G string, i sometimes struggle playing that all in tune and with all the leaps, then i'll play viola for 10 mins, go back to the czardas on violin and it's easy peasy So i was thinking maybe something even smaller would be even better But obviously, if the sound isn't as good then that's pointless Well i shall see

What is the actual size difference? An inch? Cause an inch is quite a lot really

Ok, in that case I would just get a 4/4, unless this violin you're being offered is able to project as well as a 4/4 (very unlikely...if it does, then it will feel like a 4/4 in many ways too, probably with a thinned down neck and maybe shorter stop length, but 4/4 body). You need someone else to judge projection - take it to a various rooms/churches etc and do blind testing.


You could keep going like this forever. Everyone feels that on a viola, but it's more a reflection of the largeness of the viola than the smallness of the violin. If you can get that feeling of freedom on a 4/4 after playing on a viola, it probably means you just need to work really hard on your hand flexibility by using the exercises I suggested, because they make you expand your hand beyond the normal 1-4 relationship to playing unisons and even further, which is basically like the stretches you get on a viola playing normally. If you do a little of that every morning then in not very long you should be able to get that "post-viola" feeling every day Please try it out before getting a small violin, I have been in exactly your position (offered a free 7/8, loved it, but wasn't able to perform on it due to lack of tone, so worked on stretching and now have no problems with a 4/4 and actually can play 11ths on a violin quite comfortably).

Thanks
I've started on those exercises you've suggested
I can usually easily play octaves and even sometimes find my 4th finger being sharp, but i've just started Bach gavotte en rondeau and i physically just can't make all the stretches with all the double stops But that's probably just cause im not used to it!
The person said it's 'a full size violin but with a slimmer neck and body'.
I'll wait till i try it and then, as i said, i can also compare it to 4/4s in the same price range. As i said it got her through chethams and royal academy of music etc. She now plays a Guadagnini though
I'm not looking to downsize, i'm just looking for a new violin, so i'll compare it equally with the others

The keys it goes through are awful for the violin as they involve hideous numbers of sharps Maybe you need to adjust to a enharmonic hand position, if you get me...? Move your whole hand a quarter or semitone higher so you're playing in low 2nd position instead of trying to reach for double sharps in 1st position. I think everyone finds that piece difficult to stretch when learning it for the first time though.

I'm also a little person (just 5 feet tall) with very tiny hands. After much searching I managed to track down a small full-size violin, as opposed to a 7/8ths.

I did try a 7/8 size violin for a while, but, much like bohemian with the Tononi she had on loan, didn't find it really had the volume of sound I needed.

Old English violins (early 19th century) do tend to be smaller in build. Many later 19th century and a lot of 20th century instruments of all origins are bigger and French violins are well known as being some of the biggest, in terms of physical dimensions.

With that sort of a pedigree this violin definitely sounds like it's worth having a look at.

There are very many ways in which violins can vary in size, not just length. Factors that can influence how comfortable you find an instrument can include - but are definitely not limited to - width of body - especially around the shoulders, width of neck, weight of the instrument and, very importantly, the setup (height of strings etc). Then there are other factors too that you can influence yourself more cheaply and easily, like finding the most suitable chinrest and shoulder rest (if you use one).

Whatever your height, you should aim to find an instrument which you feel extremely comfortable and balanced playing and which you will WANT to pick up and play. Obviously sound comes in to it too, but a good luthier should be able to set up a slightly-smaller-than-absolutely-full-size instrument well to give you as good tone and projection as you are ever realistically likely to need. If you have an instrument that you are very comfortable with you are bound to play it much more.... and therefore improve at a much faster rate... than if you have a bigger instrument with which you are simply not comfortable.

My suggestion is that you go to a good violin shop and try out a few different styles of violin (both within and over your budget) to give you an idea of what might suit. Try to do this, if you can, before trying the violin you have been offered, so that you can make an informed decision.

If you do decide to go for this violin it is worth finding out who has been looking after and servicing it as they are probably a very useful luthier to get to know.

One more thought..... take along your own bow when trying out as different instruments can sound very different with different bows.

Don't be too surprised if, after a while with a new (especially better) violin you find yourself convinced that a different bow would make an even bigger difference. But then that's for another time! (plenty of posts here previously on bows and violins on here if you are interested.)

Thing is, i'm worried that the violin will be great for me now but not in a few years.
The idea is for me to get a violin for music college/uni. I'm only just doing my grade 8 so i'm worried that for now it'll seem great but in a few years when i've improved, it will be too quiet etc. =/ There's no way for me to know Though it was my teacher who suggested the violin to me and she wouldn't suggest something that she doesn't think is 110% good enough


Edit - mind you, now that i think of it, that's the case with any violin really isn't it

Try it without any preconceptions and see if IT chooses YOU.....

I suspect that if your teacher has suggested it as being a good possibility for you and that if the next step up for the previous player is a Guadagnini it has to be a pretty decent violin.

Only you, guided by your teacher after you have tried it, will know if it is the right violin for you.