Hi,

I know you're probably bored with vibrato rants but this is really annoying me now.

How long did it take you lot to be able to produce a decent sounding vibrato from when you first started trying?

I've been having a go for a couple of months. Sometimes there's a bit of something but I'm almost scared to practice it because I don't know I'm doing it right.

I try in front of my teacher and often I'm doing it wrong and then ocassionally it's right, but I can't tell the difference/remember which is right!

So, how long does it take? How do you know you're doing it right?

(Apparently my first attempts I was doing cello vib on a violin)

Hi Lizzy !

It took me AAAAAAGGGGEEEEEEES to get it right ! I thought I'd never get it, then it clicked one day - it really was like that. I couldn't do it, then all of a sudden I could - I think for me it was to do with learning to relax the finger so it could move from the first joint.

Check out Todd Ehle's videos on youtube - he has some excellent ones on vibrato (he's a violin teacher from the States and he's very good).

Keep at it - it will come !

Allan

I think the description that it just 'clicks' into place one day is very good.

In my experience we all try so hard that it's that day when you just totally relax and don't stress about it that it just falls into place.

Then gradually after that you learn to control it... which is taking me a while

I think it took me somewhere around six months of trying and it just appeared properly overnight

I'm afraid it's one of those frustrating "how long is a piece of string" answers!

Some of my students pick it up almost straight away, and it sounds great. Others (notably those who have bad habits in terms of posture, holding the violin, etc, and are persistently resistant to correction!) take much, much longer. If these things are not right first, proper vibrato is doomed.

But if you can do it right occasionally - take heart! Eventually the right times will outweigh the wrong times, and then you will begin to find you do it without thinking about it. Lottie's point about relaxation is important too, as tension really gets in the way of a good vibrato. Good luck!

Been playing for...almost 13 years now, and I am still not happy with my vibrato

Misterioso, tension can help vibrato...so long as you are aware of it. The basic motion of arm vibrato requires quite a bit of tension if it is to sound half way decent, especially in high positions (because of the arm angle, in part). If you try and vibrato away from the violin (make a fist and shake it) you'll see what I mean.

But there is tension and tension, Bohemian. Obviously there is some tension involved in vibrato (just as there is in holding up the violin, but that doesn't mean one's posture should not be relaxed). But trying endlessly to achieve something that is taking time to get right can result in tension being unnoticeably created in other places (shoulders, elbows, jaw, etc) which can have knock-on effects and ultimately interfere with good vibrato. That is what I meant!

I thought that stating that you should be aware of the tension required was pretty self-explanatory...
Well, your posture can only be relaxed to a point with vibrato. The simple fact is that is requires the tensing of the entire left forearm from the elbow. The key is learning to have complete control over the tension and the ability to limit and localise it. For those of us who play without a shoulder rest, there is necessarily also a minimal amount of shoulder and/or neck tension involved in order to minimise the forward-backward motion of the violin. The same principals apply. If I didn't apply some degree of tension to "hold" the violin in place, I would drop it every time I shifted downwards or used vibrato.
I just think it's misleading to imply that the vibrato movement itself is relaxed, as it certainly is not (possibly wrist vibrato allows a lesser degree of tension though). The crappiest vibratos are often produced by the most relaxed players.

I was one of the lucky few for whom vibrato just happened naturally. I honestly can't remember when it kicked in, it just did.

However, bohemian saying that being really relaxed doesn't produce the best vibrato, is, to some extent, quite true. I am probably one of the least relaxed violinists - I'm always fretting about something and I'm a useless soloist due to nerves - but, I somehow seem to keep the left arm and hand passively relaxed but also active enough to produce a really good vibrato. The quality of the vibrato as well as the type (hand or arm) really is about total control of tension or relaxation in the left arm.

I'm also not one for adding vib to every single note. Continuous vibrato can sound as boring as no vibrato at all and is in fact very tiring (physically) to achieve.

As for how long it takes to learn vibrato, well there's no direct or definitive answer to that. For those who have to physically learn to do vibrato and apply it, it's a case of it will happen when the player has complete control over the muscles in their left arm. Forcing it will do you no good and can have the opposite effect of hindering your actual technique as a whole, or worse still lead to weird finger vibrato, side-to-side wiggling of the strings and other odd hand behaviour.

Same here It was weird, my teacher showed me what to do and i somehow just did it, she was like what the heck? I've not had any problems with it but it is an ongoing process, i found it fine from the beginning but i still have a looong way to go in terms of improving it and find some aspects really hard e.g. vibrato in high positions on the G string, with me it just turns into a horrible wobble/shake

I still can't do vibrato properly. I can only do vibrato if I collapse my wrist. When I hold my violin properly my wrist and arm are as stiff as a board and won't do vibrato at all.

took 6 months to get a decent vib, then a couple of months later i 'lost' it and it took another month to get it back. Having said that, it took another 5 years for it to be totally secure and to be able to vary it (wider/narrower etc).

x

To be honest, I far prefer my pupils to learn to use their bow expressively rather than pushing the vibrato issue when clearly they are having trouble with it. I'm a great believer in letting skills mature gradually.

Too many think vibrato can be used to cover a multitude of sins (poor intonation for one), when in fact, it can highlight weaknesses in other areas of a pupils' playing.

Learning the fine art of bow control and using the bow expressively will enhance any playing, even if vibrato is in short supply.

I read somewhere about a great exercise in bow control, to always practice a legato passage without vibrato in order to ensure you're getting the most out of the bow, before adding vibrato.

Vibrato does not come naturally to me, it did not happen overnight. I watched videos on how to vibrato from youtube and attempted them when I was only a few months into violin playing and of course, failed miserably. I thought to myself, oh no....I will never be able to get this. I remember clearly, collapsing the first finger joint, moving the wrist backwards... thats fine, but addign the bow arm was making my head spin!!

Then when my teacher introduce vibrato to me, she made me learn the arm vibrato, slowly bu doing one wriggle at a time, etc.... I gradually am getting the hang of it. However, this is a long process. I cannot do continous vibrato, between each note, I have a very noticable pause if I need to vibrate, it's so frustrating.

I was just assigned "the Swan" to practice vibrato... let see how it goes..

I've just got to the stage now where wanting to go any further, cetrainly exam wise I will need to know vibrato even though I've not really been playing that long.

I think I did it yesterday by the way!!!
As you say it was when I wasn't really thinking about it and when I conciously tried I couldn't again. But maybe that pin prick of light is there at the end of that tunnel.

While this topic is still on front page, can someone tell me why it's so hard to do vibrato continuously? Specifically, I'm working on the violin version of The Swan from the carnival of the animals. My teacher wanted me to do vibrato on quarter notes or longer, wide, relaxed vibrato...i can't do anything shorter than a half note

Don't worry, Fayewolf, it will come, honestly! It seems so insurmountable at first, but it's like everything else, you just get it eventually. Like AmandaL says constantly, use your bow well and keep secure intonation - those are your priorities, then your vibrato will add a little colour now and then.

If you can manage half notes now, congratulate yourself - that's a half note more than you would have managed six months ago!

Keep at it.

Allan

Amanda, you sound just like my teacher, which is great.
I'm just attempting vibrato, using the forearm, tried it out in a lesson ,and got 50 minute of bowing instruction as a reward!
So, it's been put on hold until the bowing is good and I can tune the viola to his satisfaction.( talk about back to basics!)
R
PS. hope that everyone had a good celebration for Purim

You too

I find it useful to differentiate between legato vibrato, and accent vibrato, when having problems with slurred legato bowing on shorter notes with constant vibrato.

Practice accent vibrato on these short notes (produced almost like a trill, the start of a martele bow stroke acts as an impetus to begin the left hand vibrato motion). Gradually, start to incorporate more legato bowstrokes, but keeping the LH vibrato action as accent/martele-driven vibrato. It's about distinguishing the LH and RH action. Well, it worked for me anyway...it's just one way of doing it.