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Listener
What are people's experiences of the performance part of the A/S music exam? Do the demands differ from those of ABRSM exams?

I ask because, while my daughter generally gets good marks for pieces/studies in ABRSM exams, she has been given a poor mark for her A/S mock, notably I understand for 'interpretation' and 'communication'. I have no objection to a school giving pupils the short, sharp, shock treatment in mock exams, but I am puzzled by this result.

I don't think it relates to difficulty; she took Grade VIII on the instrument in December (28, 28 and 29 out of 30 for a study and two pieces); she is playing (I would guess) a Grade VI or VII piece for A/S (25/40, the bottom mark in the class). There may have been a difference in amount of preparation, or suitability of the piece, however.

But the question is: was it simply lack of adequate preparation or should she be doing something different to what she has been doing for ABRSM exams, festivals, auditions, etc?

Time is, of course, not on our side. I'm not sure when the final recording session is, but it must be weeks rather than months away. Her excellent instrumental teacher will be pulling out all the stops, but I would appreciate the forum's thoughts so I can see what's happened in a constructive light and help us move on.
andante_in_c
I prepare A level students for the performance part of their exams. The best guidelines as to what is expected can be found on the exam boards' websites. The marking criteria has changed with the new syllabus and it is worth studying it in detail.

Is your daughter playing a piece she first studied several years ago? I often find with students (and have found in my own playing) that old habits die hard: often a post-Grade 8 player will play pieces from their back catalogue in the way that they played them then, rather than in the light of their current technique and musicianship. If this is the case it is worth taking a critical look at the pieces and approaching them with new eyes.

There are often differences in the way pieces are marked between A level and Grade exams. The most startling incidence I've met was a girl who gained distinction at DipABRSM playing the same material as in her A level recital. That recital brought her overall mark for A level music down to a B and cost her an Oxbridge place as a consequence.
Listener
Andante in C: Many thanks for your rapid and helpful reply. I've found the appropriate syllabus and my daughter will be able to make good use of that. She's OK with constructive criticism, but not knowing what she had done wrong was a problem.

No it's not an old piece, she started it after taking Grade VIII (she's only been playing 3 years and did just Grades VII and VIII so had no old material to fall back on). BUT she is reviving pieces for performance on her other instrument, so your advice may have saved her another disappointment.

Because they need to be at a lower level technically, it must be a danger that otherwise competent candidates underestimate how demanding the A/S and A performance exams are in other respects.

That poor would-be Oxbridge girl - what a terrible thing to happen, but I hope she made good because Oxbridge should be kept in perspective.

Thanks again
notmusimum


I've been looking at the GCSe syllabus and I get the feeling that it's better to play a lower level piece really well than a more difficult piece. I think quite alot of marks can be lost for tiny errors, if I understand it correctly.

I think for those used to taking graded examinations it must be really hard to strike a balance. a piece that gets the difficulty marks but is not os hard that the tiny errors creep in.

Good luck ot your daughter listener at least she's got time to put things right before the final recording.
Banjogirl
I think the way GCSE performances are marked is terrible. In AB exams they're looking, as I understand it, for a good and believable performance. In GCSE they have boxes to tick, presumably to make it completely objective, and a good performance goes out of the window in favour of box ticking. I hate the way advanced insrumentlists are encouraged to play easy pieces so they don't risk losing any marks. It was much better in O level days when there were set pieces and you couldn't get nearly full marks by ticking all the boxes playing a grade one piece with no 'mistakes' and four bits of dynamics. Grr. It's hideous.
BerkshireMum
I think A level performing can be very difficult because of the circumstances. At my son's school, recording was done in concerts, either small lunchtime ones following a very busy morning at school, or in the evening after a very busy day at school. Virtually no time to warm up at lunchtime, and in the evening he always seemed to be near the end of a long programme. The accompanist could be anyone available (music teachers are not usually brilliant at accompaniment, though there are exceptions), with sometimes only the briefest of rehearsals beforehand; the school piano is invariably out of tune. No-one makes a big thing of it - it's just another performance to be recorded.

Contrast this with the ABRSM exam situation, where you tend to pick your child up from school in good time to ensure they are fed, watered and warmed up before the exam, and properly focussed. All the exams are over by 5pm, so there's no chance of being over-tired. At the higher grades they've had rehearsals with a good accompanist, and the teacher has tried to enter them at the centre with the nicest piano. Everyone feels it's a big occasion. No wonder many people perform far better than they could ever do in a school situation.

Add to this the very strange marking criteria for AS (may be better now than when my children took it) and I'm not at all surprised when the best students end up doing worse than the less advanced.

I'm not sure how you can help your daughter, Listener, because the conditions she has to play under in school aren't known to me. I do know that many good musicians are more put off by things like a badly out of tune piano and a poor accompanist than the average AS student would be. Maybe try to find out a little more about what happens in her school, and see whether it would be possible to provide your own accompanist for the final recording. Failing that, suggest she tries to give a good performance at home at the end of the day when she's tired, or when she needs to eat; if she can crack giving a good performance under adverse conditions she'll give herself a much better chance in the average school situation.
jacobpianofluteorgan
QUOTE(BerkshireMum @ Mar 9 2009, 02:44 PM) *

I think A level performing can be very difficult because of the circumstances. At my son's school, recording was done in concerts, either small lunchtime ones following a very busy morning at school, or in the evening after a very busy day at school. Virtually no time to warm up at lunchtime, and in the evening he always seemed to be near the end of a long programme. The accompanist could be anyone available (music teachers are not usually brilliant at accompaniment, though there are exceptions), with sometimes only the briefest of rehearsals beforehand; the school piano is invariably out of tune. No-one makes a big thing of it - it's just another performance to be recorded.

That sounds awful! Did he get the mark he wanted in the end?

From what my music teacher has told me, at our school for AS performance, because our music lessons are shared between 2 schools (opposite eachother), the performance is usually done at the school opposite ours, because they have the better music facilities, which means we have access to all the practise rooms before hand, and the recording is done in a purpose built music hall on a Steinway concert grand piano.

For A2, we get taken on the school minibus to the wiltshire music centre, and have access to all the practise rooms (with brilliant yamaha pianos), and take the exam in the Auditorium on a very new Steinway concert grand that is tuned before every concert and kept in brilliant condition.

The board is changing the requirements though for 2009-2010, but probably (and hopefully) wont mean taking the exam at our school instead of the music centre.

I'm very lucky to have all of this available to me, but I feel really sorry to all the people having their A level results destroyed because of poor facilities sad.gif

Jacob. smile.gif
Listener
Thank you for your thoughtful replies - my daughter was really touched that people took time to respond to her predicament, and she feels able to move forward better following your suggestions.

Regarding pieces, it was only when I consulted the syllabus yesterday that I realised pieces could be as 'low' as Grade V. IF she goes on to do the full A-level, she will know to check. As it is, I guess she'll stick with what's she's worked on, but with the syllabus in front of her. However, she does apparently have to scrabble together something else* and can take account of the grade expectations of the board for that (*this is my first experience of fire brigade music management, but it's eerily familiar, not least from tales on this forum - oh boy have we been lucky for the last 10 years).

She was really taken by the suggestion of a recital at home. The only problem I see is either holding back the ravenous horde (me especially) so she can play before dinner, or finding anyone else who's still awake when she finishes homework. I do try, but apparently it was midnight last night; fortunately she gets by on little sleep or life would fall apart. I'm not proud of this lifestyle, but it's that or give something up - her choice.

The comparison with the ABRSM exam experience is spot on, and got through to her. I had previously remarked that I didn't think the performance A/S was being taken as seriously, by her or her teachers - but time is scarce so she was simply doing what was being asked for, and then getting on with something else. Nonetheless, her hard-won ABRSM results may count for nought in comparison with A/S and A levels when/if she applies to university. Fortunately she understands ticking boxes - don't they all, these days?

She's privileged, and knows it, with regard to facilities but will now be thinking about the A/S performance in the context of what she would do before/during an ABRSM exam. She's happy with who accompanied her, and they did rehearse - but we'll try and check whether that will be the same for the next recording. She's had the odd dire experience at school, but without letting the skeltons fall completely out of the cupboard, it does not help to rock the boat, in fact it makes things worse. I agree about the benefits of good accompaniment. We've driven across the county for rehearsals and repeated that as often as necessary before ABRSM exams and auditions and it's been worth every minute and every penny, and she's learnt so much from it. Also, she now knows when accompaniment is good.

One other thing occurs to me: she did not do GCSE music which means she had no prior experience with being recorded - and her school conducts the performance exam as a recording session with just the performer and examining teachers present (although they also record concerts and sometimes use those). She has been really surprised (might be ~relevant to a different thread by notmusimum) at how well she has been able to catch up with other parts of the syllabus (this is AQA, by the way, and she also has theory tuition now at junior conservatoire). Fortunately a sense of humour means she sees the irony in her performance skills dragging her overall result down. However, she DOES have a recording device, a gift from a generous sibling, so she can practise recording her recital at home - we should have thought of that before but I think we (I put my hand up) were lulled into complacency.

Thanks again for all your help

notmusimum
QUOTE(Listener @ Mar 10 2009, 10:29 AM) *

she DOES have a recording device, a gift from a generous sibling, so she can practise recording her recital at home - we should have thought of that before but I think we (I put my hand up) were lulled into complacency.

Thanks again for all your help



I think the whole music thing is constantly one big learning curve for Parents as well as the child doing the exams.

My other half feels totally out of his depth with all the music stuff, it often causes him to react negatively towards it. He won't buy musical instruments but did get pushed in buying a recording device a while ago. I'm now working on getting a multi-track one biggrin.gif

It it's any consolation my daughter has been agonising over her GCSE performances. We have no idea whether what she's picked are the best options. She's gone for somethiong below her current technical standard that she played for an exam and in a festival, her Piano Teacher is acccompaning as he did on both other occassions.

Good luck to your daughter I'm sure she's well on the way to doing well now.
BerkshireMum
QUOTE(jacobpianofluteorgan @ Mar 9 2009, 05:10 PM) *

QUOTE(BerkshireMum @ Mar 9 2009, 02:44 PM) *

I think A level performing can be very difficult because of the circumstances. At my son's school, recording was done in concerts, either small lunchtime ones following a very busy morning at school, or in the evening after a very busy day at school. Virtually no time to warm up at lunchtime, and in the evening he always seemed to be near the end of a long programme. The accompanist could be anyone available (music teachers are not usually brilliant at accompaniment, though there are exceptions), with sometimes only the briefest of rehearsals beforehand; the school piano is invariably out of tune. No-one makes a big thing of it - it's just another performance to be recorded.

That sounds awful! Did he get the mark he wanted in the end?
From what my music teacher has told me, at our school for AS performance, because our music lessons are shared between 2 schools (opposite eachother), the performance is usually done at the school opposite ours, because they have the better music facilities, which means we have access to all the practise rooms before hand, and the recording is done in a purpose built music hall on a Steinway concert grand piano.

For A2, we get taken on the school minibus to the wiltshire music centre, and have access to all the practise rooms (with brilliant yamaha pianos), and take the exam in the Auditorium on a very new Steinway concert grand that is tuned before every concert and kept in brilliant condition.

The board is changing the requirements though for 2009-2010, but probably (and hopefully) wont mean taking the exam at our school instead of the music centre.

I'm very lucky to have all of this available to me, but I feel really sorry to all the people having their A level results destroyed because of poor facilities sad.gif

Jacob. smile.gif


I wasn't meaning it to sound awful - I thought that's just the way things are in most state schools. If my son hadn't been doing 5 A-levels he'd probably have been less tired anyway, so it was partly his own circumstances. The teachers did their best and I was very satisfied with his AS year. Unfortunately two of the music teachers left and the A2 year wasn't nearly so good, but he still got his A overall.

Do you go to a state school? If so, they go to a lot more trouble than the schools in West Berkshire!
fluterocks
I'm doing OCR As music this year.

Performance wise, I've been told that though by the time my AS performance is (early may) i'll have taken my grade 6 ABRSM (just, they're going to be about a week apart!) i'd be better playing grade 5 pieces for my recital (which has a live examiner like ABRSM ones) and playing it safe as they only expect grades 4-5 for access into the top marks if it is a believable performance so there's apparently no need to mount the pressure.

My teacher also says it's better to do grade 5 stuff for AS so that my A2 performance i have pieces at my disposal ranging from 6-8(hopefully).


with my exams being so close together for AS and ABRSM, it will be an interesting comparision...
1stviolin
I can't remember what my son did in his AS performance: however I know that for A2 his choice was somewhat restricted by having to perform something that he could also analyse at least two recordings of and write a detailed almost bar-by-bar comparison, using his research to "inform" his own perfomance. As bassoon music is often difficult to find one recording of, let alone two, this proved interesting! (He decided to do bassoon rather than piano - I seem to recall he might have done piano for AS) The piece(s) also had to bear some relation to the broad Area of Study ("elements of romanticism" or similar). I think in the end the piece was probably grade 8-ish, but he was pleased to get nearly full marks (a friend got full marks on the clarinet, but she has gone on to read music at university)
plonkee
QUOTE
Performance wise, I've been told that though by the time my AS performance is (early may) i'll have taken my grade 6 ABRSM (just, they're going to be about a week apart!) i'd be better playing grade 5 pieces for my recital (which has a live examiner like ABRSM ones) and playing it safe as they only expect grades 4-5 for access into the top marks if it is a believable performance so there's apparently no need to mount the pressure.


In general, ideally you should do the easiest piece (one that you can give the best performance of) that is considered *more difficult*. For OCR AS-Level that is indeed G4-5. For A-Level (same board) that's G6.

In the dim and distant past when I did my A-Level I played a G8 piece for my final performance exam. This was a mistake as I had passed G8 barely comptentently and I would have given a much better performance of an easier piece that would have fallen in the *more difficult* band (say a G6 or G7 piece I knew well).

There are of course other criteria that are important, you should probably check out the specification directly from the examining board, they're all on the web e.g.OCR specification AS 2008
sarah123
QUOTE(plonkee @ Mar 13 2009, 12:23 PM) *

In general, ideally you should do the easiest piece (one that you can give the best performance of) that is considered *more difficult*. For OCR AS-Level that is indeed G4-5. For A-Level (same board) that's G6.


*grump*

For edexcel AS, grade 5 is the minimum and for it to count as 'more difficult', it has to be at least grade 7. dry.gif
ellie_the_little_elephant
Does anyone know what (if any) notice is taken of the accompaniment when the GCSE/A level music exams are marked? I have been asked to sing a duet with a girl for her GCSE music exam and I would hate to be the cause of her being marked down in any way. I know that our voices don't match - I am a typical ex-cathedral-chorister soprano; I do light, clear, easily-blended and have a very straight tone, whilst she has a lovely, rich, slightly-operatic voice - slightly ironic given that I'm fourteen years older than she is! tongue.gif I know the music really well as I've sung it before, but I'm worried that if there's a startling difference in tone quality then it might lose her marks, unfairly because my voice really isn't her fault!
(Head of Music is accompanying us; we've had, er, one rehearsal and the GCSE student doesn't yet know the notes, which is a bit worrying as well! ohmy.gif )
sarah123
QUOTE(ellie_the_little_elephant @ Mar 13 2009, 11:37 PM) *

Does anyone know what (if any) notice is taken of the accompaniment when the GCSE/A level music exams are marked? I have been asked to sing a duet with a girl for her GCSE music exam and I would hate to be the cause of her being marked down in any way. I know that our voices don't match - I am a typical ex-cathedral-chorister soprano; I do light, clear, easily-blended and have a very straight tone, whilst she has a lovely, rich, slightly-operatic voice - slightly ironic given that I'm fourteen years older than she is! tongue.gif I know the music really well as I've sung it before, but I'm worried that if there's a startling difference in tone quality then it might lose her marks, unfairly because my voice really isn't her fault!
(Head of Music is accompanying us; we've had, er, one rehearsal and the GCSE student doesn't yet know the notes, which is a bit worrying as well! ohmy.gif )


I'm pretty sure you're not marked on the accompaniment directly, but if you had a bad accompanist, you may well be put off and not play/sing to your best.
ellie_the_little_elephant
QUOTE(sarah123 @ Mar 13 2009, 11:40 PM) *


I'm pretty sure you're not marked on the accompaniment directly, but if you had a bad accompanist, you may well be put off and not play/sing to your best.


Thank you! smile.gif

I understand what you're saying; if the accompaniment goes utterly pear-shaped then theoretically the performer shouldn't lose marks. I hope/expect? rolleyes.gif that I will be deadly accurate and reliable, what I'm worrying about is that the difference in our voices and possibly dynamic levels (my mf is her p, for instance, so once she gets louder than her mf I haven't much hope of matching it) might count against her; if it was an actual performance then I almost certainly (unless you're after a very specific almost-boy-treble-sound) not be chosen for any kind of solo as I don't have the right sort of voice.

I am not really looking for advice on how to change my voice; it's very useful in the choirs I sing with and light/straight/easily-blended "glue" voice with decent sight-reading is usually not to be turned down, but I am no-one's idea of a soloist and am quite happy with that! I suppose I'm wondering whether to suggest that she finds someone else, or even - which to my mind would be preferable, but I don't know how difficult this is - that she records herself singing the Sop 1 part and then records herself again singing Sop2 along with the original recording?

(Considering that I am not a music teacher - I teach a totally different subject and the Head of Music has asked me to sing this piece to help out - I'm doing a lot of worrying, aren't I? :S)
ben_walker446
QUOTE(sarah123 @ Mar 13 2009, 11:40 PM) *

I'm pretty sure you're not marked on the accompaniment directly, but if you had a bad accompanist, you may well be put off and not play/sing to your best.

I know that one of my friends got marked down quite a lot in her performance exam because her accompanist was ill on the day and couldn't make it! So she got marked down for not having one!

Unlike some A level courses our performances is done in front of an examiner! My performance is on the April 3rd this year, the last day of term! This means that in a way it is very similar to an ABRSM exam because we prepare our pieces and practise with our accompanist and we have time to warm up before and then walk in and play. In a way I hate this because there is so much riding on one performance! It's not a grade 8 exam that costs me Xpounds and I can retake! It's an exam that ultimately can decide if I get into university or not and so if the examiner is having a bad day then the marks suffer....as they apparently did a few years ago when he was in a really bad mood! I don't really understand the marks and think they're often unfair! Last year a lad in my classed played really well! A truly good pianist! He got the same mark as I did! and I went in to the exam and gave an awful performance!

I think it's very important that you look at the specific exam board syllabus to see what they want! There are usually quite a few sections to the performance and to each one different standards.

1stviolin - that's what i'm doing now. I'm comparing the use effective us of articulation in Jean Francaixs Pambiche from Suite Exotiques! and then expanding to 20th Century French composers for my recital! Must get on with it soon! only got a few hundred words done!
fluterocks
QUOTE(ben_walker446 @ Mar 13 2009, 11:59 PM) *

Unlike some A level courses our performances is done in front of an examiner! My performance is on the April 3rd this year, the last day of term! This means that in a way it is very similar to an ABRSM exam because we prepare our pieces and practise with our accompanist and we have time to warm up before and then walk in and play. In a way I hate this because there is so much riding on one performance! It's not a grade 8 exam that costs me Xpounds and I can retake! It's an exam that ultimately can decide if I get into university or not and so if the examiner is having a bad day then the marks suffer....as they apparently did a few years ago when he was in a really bad mood! I don't really understand the marks and think they're often unfair! Last year a lad in my classed played really well! A truly good pianist! He got the same mark as I did! and I went in to the exam and gave an awful performance!

I think it's very important that you look at the specific exam board syllabus to see what they want! There are usually quite a few sections to the performance and to each one different standards.

1stviolin - that's what i'm doing now. I'm comparing the use effective us of articulation in Jean Francaixs Pambiche from Suite Exotiques! and then expanding to 20th Century French composers for my recital! Must get on with it soon! only got a few hundred words done!


good luck for your practical!
Ours isn't until may this year (thankfully)

My music teacher is thrilled we don't have to do the performance around a topic thing anymore in our recitals for A2...means I can have free choice biggrin.gif...but then i have to do a viva...eeek.
sarah123
QUOTE(ben_walker446 @ Mar 13 2009, 11:59 PM) *

QUOTE(sarah123 @ Mar 13 2009, 11:40 PM) *

I'm pretty sure you're not marked on the accompaniment directly, but if you had a bad accompanist, you may well be put off and not play/sing to your best.

I know that one of my friends got marked down quite a lot in her performance exam because her accompanist was ill on the day and couldn't make it! So she got marked down for not having one!


I think it's a bit like the AB exams in that, if there should be an accompaniment, then you HAVE to have one, but you don't get marked on the actual accompaniment.
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