I have an 8 year old son who absolutely loves his music making! He is about to take grade 1 piano and is more than willing to sit down and learn his scales and pieces.

He has recently started picking up my alto sax and having a good go at playing it. It looks way to big for him, and as a teacher as well, my experience says he is too young to play it. I approached local music services at start of academic year (year 3) to explore clarinet lessons, but they said he was too small to start. What do I do? Do I nag music services, find a private teacher prepared to take him on, or just, yet again, encourage him to be patient. He really does want to start learning. I am not a single reed player - I consider myself as an oboe specialist. Can anyone offer me some useful, sensible advice?

Depends how big an 8 year old he is. At 8 there is no way I could cover the holes on the bottom part of the clarinet, it was a struggle at 10 when I did start. However I've seen 7 and 8 year olds with big enough hands to cope without a problem.

Does he have his adult front teeth fully in place? Others have done it successfully but I'd be wary of starting until they are there.

Personally I'd recomend he tries recorder 1st. As well as being one of the best instruments ever invented (ok I'm biased!) it also provides a good starting point for future clarinet or sax players. It would get him used to blowing articulating (different techniques needed but it gets the thought process embedded) and a lot of the fingering patterns are similar. If he learns treble and descant he'll have a real head start on clarinet as the different fingerings in teh 1st 2 registers often bamboozle kids.

What I'm wondering is why you asked about clarinet lessons if it's the sax that holds the attraction for him?
Or has he expressed an interest in the clarinet too?

I'd endorse what CJB suggested about starting on recorder. It's much easier to play than clarinet, but gets you used to fingering and to playing different parts in a group. My son started recorder in year 2 and continued with it for a while even after starting clarinet in year 5. He also took several recorder exams (up to grade 4), which meant he got used to playing with an accompanist - another useful thing which you don't get from piano lessons but which transfers to clarinet or sax.

I've read on the forums that there are teachers around prepared to start younger children on a C clarinet, so you could ask in your area whether there's anyone doing that. Otherwise, it's usual (at least in this area) to start Bb clarinet lessons in year 5 through the music service.

The reason we explored the clarinet is because many of the saxophone players I studied with at college, started out on the clarinet as it is more handlable. The alto does look too big for him at present. He is a reasonable size 8 year old. I am also keen for him to be able to get involved in the local music centre, which he could do if he played a "traditional" woodwind instrument. I love the recorder, but they already have class recorder lessons from music services. It might well be worth exploring further though!

The local music service will not let him learn on a C clarinet - fair enough, that's their professional right!

Do think about Recorder it's well worth exploring. My daughter started with it, she still plays, even though she's probably considered a first study Oboist.

I'm only a parent so I can't really help from a musical point of view. My eldest wanted Sax lessons and got persuaded to play Clarinet instead. She still plays a bit but I think she would have been better on Sax from the outset. Both girls find Sax easier than Clari.

How about Eb Clarinet?

My daughter finally pleaded her way into a sax aged only 10. She was desperate to learn it and still gets a funny look on her face when she picks it up. Flute is actually her first instrument and Piano is her second instrument. If he can get a sound out of it I'd let him do it. Sheer determination can get you a long way.
I think she was 8 when she started asking but she'd just started the flute so I held her at bay for a while.
Dora

Much too squeaky!

I teach a 6 year old Yr 2 clarinet and a 7 year old year 3. Both are small and both are learning on Eb clarinets. I love teaching them. The 7 year old is going to do her Grade 1 next term. You can do Gr 1-3 on Eb or C clarinets.
I am starting a bigger year 3 after Easter on the Bb. I encourage the use of slings..... and it all does depend on the size and stamina of the child.
My 7 year old yr 3 will play the Eb for a fair amount of time as she really is small. I don't think I could bear the altissimo notes on the Eb, so she really will have to grow before Grade 3!!!!!!
In the school I teach these tinies in, a lot of tiny children learn violin. I wouldn't take anyone until yr 4 when I first started... but then I discovered all the really keen ones took up the violin as they could start in year 1!!! I realised I was missing out on pupils. I now love teaching the little ones. We have such fun. They are often enthusiastic. We play games.... we 'write' music on my whiteboards....Obviously, they have learned more slowly than most of those who start in say, year 6 or 5, but not by that much. They play in the school orchestra and at the local music club in training band.

If the school can't provide a teacher who will take him on, maybe you can find a private teacher who will???
PM me if you want.

I agree with much that has been said already. Speaking as a woodwind player/teacher, learning the recorder first is definetely a good idea. The treble recorder has more space for the holes and will aid the transition to woodwind instruments. I would recommend learning from year 4 upwards and perhaps tp transfer from the clarinet to the sax at a later stage, which is quite often done.

Thanks for all your input so far! It's been really encouraging that no-one has told me to stop being silly! He can get several notes out of the Alto and would pick it up and play it every day if I let him, but I don't want him doing himself any damage that he might later regret! He does use a sling, but it's still way too big.

Music services wouldn't consider E flat clarinet either. I will follow them up again in the next few days, and if I'm still dissatisfied with what they have to say, I will gather the opinions of other private teachers in the area. Keep posting with your experiences/advice, though, as I'm finding it really useful!

As someone else said, determination can get you a long way. We had a trumpet lying around un-played and my 8 year old started picking it up and having a go. He pestered me for lessons for nearly a year, before I gave in - he thinks it is The Best Instrument, loves playing and is making really good progress. Don't underestimate the single-mindedness of a child (especially boys, I think!) - if they really want to do something, it is a great age to get stuck in, before they have loads of other distractions.

My son started playing a Bb clarinet at 7, beginning of year 3 at school. He is not a big child - always the smallest in his class, and even at nearly 10, he isn't 135cm tall! He took to it very quickly, practiced hard and for long stretches, and was at grade 5 at 9, within 18 months of picking the instrument up for the first time. He had never done any music whatsoever before. He plays with a sling now, as his Selmer clarinets are too heavy otherwise. He started playing the A clarinet (bigger than Bb) last summer, and uses it in some orchestra pieces on a regular basis. Saxes are a lot bigger and bulkier, he had a go with one but doesn't seem too interested at the moment - maybe in a couple of years time...

Go for it!

Good luck,

Burl

And have you seen the price of Eb clarinets??

We were looking at one for Joel, but for the hour a week he would actually play it, he can borrow the college's one...

Burl

Beth has a harness which she always uses. It puts the weight on her shoulders rather than her neck. I was advised to get her one and can see why they are better. You can get small sizes and they are not expensive. Have fun.

I don't know how big your son is but when my son, aged nine, wanted to play the sax the woodwind peri said he couldn't as he was too small. This particular teacher isn't very good so we found a proper sax teacher privately who said that of course he wasn't too small. He made quick and solid progress and has never looked back. He had a good sling, and I know there are lots of kinds you can buy. I think the most important thing was that he had a good teacher who taught him good technique right from the start.

A friend's daughter wanted to play the sax, I mean really wanted to, but this same teacher said she was too small so she started on the clarinet and never played the sax.

And another friend had one of those soprano saxes that look like an alto.

If he wants to play sax, then let him play sax! There seem to be plenty of young and small children round here playing it quite successfully, which makes me quite cross that the peri at my daughter's school told her she was too small (as a tall 8 year old) when she was desperate to do it.

Having been turned down by the sax teacher, my daughter took up recorder in Year 4. Then she was told (Year 5) that if she learnt clarinet, sax would be easy later, so she did that too. As she has been successful and enjoys them both, and does piano, singing and cello too, the consequence is she really has no time to play saxophone. Of course this doesn't really matter, as she is quite happy and now maintains she has no desire to learn sax. However, I feel slightly that she was misled into filling her time with other things when, in fact, sax would have been entirely doable in the first place, with the right teacher and harness.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Spoke to music services yesterday, and my son will start recorder lessons in April - I have managed to get him a 20 minute individual lesson. I decided to go down this road, rather than find a private saxophone teacher, as it will open up the benefits of our local music centre to him. If I had waited til September he would probably have ended up having very slow progressing lessons sharing with children with less musical experience (dare I add ability) than him. As it is, he will have the opportunity to show them what he is capable of, and being a very outgoing child will tell them all about his musical ambitions!

He woke me at 7 o'clock this morning practising his recorder, so I think the enthusiasm is there!

My daughter started clarinet in Year 3. She is an average size with actually quite small hands. She picked it up quite well and is now taking her grade 3 in the summer term at age 9. She has also just passed her grade 3 piano so perhaps playing another instrument has helped. I would find a private teacher. Good luck.

I teach all three of the instruments discussed (recorder, clarinet and saxophone) and there is a lot of good advice here. I think you're doing the right thing by getting him recorder lessons for now - when they really are too small, it can be a struggle to play with the correct technique. I started on a full sized clarinet when I was 7 (and I really was petite - am still only 5'2") and gave myself a long-term injury which didn't show up for years. That doesn't mean the same thing will happen to everyone - but I do think it's sensible to wait until a teacher can demonstrate that his hands are comfortably big enough to press the LH keys easily without pushing on the palm keys, and that he is tall enough and strong enough. If he really wants to do it, he'll still want to do it later on. Meanwhile you are helping him to channel his enthusiasm in a constructive way. You'll have to feed him up so that he grows quickly!

Edited to add: I did once teach a consultation lesson with a girl who had a soprano sax shaped like an alto. She was a small 9 year old and looked very comfortable. Just a thought!

My best friend started bassoon at age 11 or 12. She was a tall, thin girl who had absolutely no problems through adolescence and loved playing - life was good.

Her neck and upper-back problems started to become apparent in her twenties and now, ten years and two horrible operations later, she is only just getting back to normal life.

Do not take these things lightly, teacher's reservations are not to be dismissed as 'but tons of other kids do it and they're fine'.

A good physiotherapist is worth consulting if you have any concerns - there are lot of little exercises that strengthen key muscles and can make a huge difference.