Hi, I'm hoping someone can help, as I am clueless about string instruments I'm afraid!

My daughter has been having violin lessons at school since last September. The teacher has told her that she could be doing her Grade 1 exam this June. She is currently using a 'borrowed' violin, and I am thinking of getting her one of her own for her birthday.

I didn't even realise that there were different sizes (see, I said I was clueless!) and am confused! She tells me she is using the smallest size, but if I buy the smallest size, is she going to outgrow it very soon. On the other hand, I don't want to get her one which is too bug and makes playing difficult for her.

I don't get a chance to see the violin teacher at the school, but am going to write a note to her asking her too!

Thanks in advance!

Hurrah for parents wanting to buy decent instruments for their children!

Your best bet would be to take her to a proper stringed-instrument shop. (Not a general music shop - they're great for pianos / guitars etc, but not usually good for violins) and get her measured up. Then take her favourite violin of the right size on approval so that you can get the teacher's opinion on it.

Her teacher may well have a favourite violin shop (don't know where you're based - I might be able to recommend places if you're anywhere near the south west), so do try & ask - write a note if you can't get to speak to the teacher. Or of course, the teacher might know of a suitable instrument for sale that anther child has grown out of.

Many good violin shops will do a part exchange scheme whereby you can get a good proportion of your money back when you trade up to the next size - good for you and good for the shop if they keep customers!

Definitely ask the teacher's opinion though. And definitely avoid most of the ebay listings unless you absolutely know what you're looking for and what size you need.

Ah thanks for your reply, its very helpful We live in South Wales, so I guess Cardiff would probably be where we would need to go, or maybe even Bristol!

I didn't know that some places do part exchange, I'll definitely ask about that, thanks

Drop a note to your daughter's teacher telling her what you are thinking and ask her to phone you - and give your phone number - so that you can ask her advice. I expect your daughter's teacher will be delighted to help.

Cardiff Violins in the Castle Arcade have a good reputation. Bristol has a couple of violin shops - my favourite being the Bristol Violin Shop (opposite the Children's Hospital, blue shopfront / sign). Neither of these will rip you off, and they're both staffed by professionals who understand stringed instruments.

The other thing to ask about, if your daughter is at a state school, is the assisted purchase scheme. This is a scheme whereby you technically buy the violin through your school, and you don't have to pay VAT. It doesn't work for private schools, but most state schools and most of the sensible instrument shops will know about it and talk you through it. They'll talk your school through it too if necessary!

Have fun!

I second Bristol Violins, they're fabulous and were really helpful when I bought my violin.

I haven't heard such good things about Cardiff violins... they've always been very helpful to me, but i've heard an awful lot of stories... i've been warned away from there instrument-wise I always go to them for stuff like rosin, strings, but i don't go there for instruments.
San domenico is great, which is in Cardiff but not in the very centre of Cardiff... the luthier Howard Morgan is very helpful and will help you find the best instrument http://www.san-domenico.co.uk/ I got my last violin from there and will be getting my next from there too.

I'd say to try both of them if you can As far as i've heard you'll be ok with Cardiff violins aslong as you're willing to say no and not get pursuaded. Personally, i've had some great deals with them on the stuff i have bought from there mind! I was trying out shoulder rests and happened to mention that i really wanted the mach one maple shoulder rest but would never be able to afford it at £50... he went away and came back with a mach one maple shoulder rest and said it was mine for £25 simply because it didn't have all the original packaging.
Ok i'm going off subject here but yeah, try both if you can, and good luck to you and your daughter

Hi Firstly, great decision to buy her a violin! Also be sure that it comes with a half-way decent case and bow, case to protect it of course, since children running to lessons or whatever can easily trip and drop the violin (having taught on summer music camps I can say that it happens surprisingly often!) and a good bow is really important to start to learn technique properly.

There is no "smallest size" - I started on a 1/16th size, which is pretty darn small. Most people refer to 1/4 size as the smallest, because most people start when they're of an age and size where that's appropriate. Of course, you're right about growing out of violins, which is why often people go for cheaper models until you get up to 3/4 size (people often stay on 3/4 for a few years making it more worth investing). You can always sell 2nd hand when your daughter needs the next size up in however long it takes.
If she's still young and likely to grow a lot, I wonder if there's an alternative gift (violin-related of course ), since selling on a birthday present is kind of upsetting! My parents got me my first violin as a gift and when they replaced it with a 1/8 (I was about 7 by then) I didn't really understand why they were taking away my violin. It depends on the quality of the school instrument of course, but another option might be a really pretty case (you can get pink ones...) for a 1/2 size or similar, and then pad it out (wrap the violin in a bag, place cloths round the violin-shaped indent in the case to stop it moving too much). Nice cases last a long time, look cool, and are pretty important too. It's just an idea and depends on the size violin your daughter needs, of course, and so on

I live in Cardiff and have two daughters learning the violin.....

San Domenico are absolutely fantastic for full-sized old violins but don't stock new or kids' violins so your best bet would be Cardiff Violins.

Cardiff Violins have a student violin trade-in scheme so that if you, say, pay £200 for the first violin you buy from them, they'll give you half the price ie £100 as a trade in towards the next violin you purchase from them. The violins are usually from China but have been set up and restrung by Chris King, which is reflected in the price of the instruments. It's a secure method - tried and tested by many local parents in your position (several of whom I work with!)

I didn't go down this route myself but have instead bought good quality Yita (T19/M19) or handmade Woodnote violins via ebay -ranging between £50-£100 including p&p. It works out cheaper for me in the long run because I now have two children learning but I've also found that the violins are as good as the ones available at Cardiff Violins.

Hope this helps!

ALL SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN are entitled to use this Assisted Purchase Scheme. Its the individual private schools that choose whether or not they will assist you with this purchase as they have to make the purchase from the supplier, collect the money from the student, then make a claim for a VAT refund. Some simply dont want to go through all the hassle adn may try to fob you off by saying that they are not a part of the Scheme. If they wont do it they will direct you to the County Music Service, who are usually only too happy to help and can also make the purchase on your behalf. However they are usually very restricted with the suppliers they use. For example when we wanted to purchase my daughter's new sax, the County Music Service could not buy it from Sax.co.uk as this company wasnt on their approved suppliers list.

If not find a child in a state school and get them to do it for you.

Your daughter's teacher may also know of students who have outgrown their small sized violins and only too happy to sell them on. We started on a ¼, then ½ and 3/4 until reaching a 4/4 all purchased from students who had outgrown them.

Her teacher will be able to advise how close your daughter is to outgrowing her current violin size and may even know someone who wants to sell on a good violin in your daughters size.

Some shops also rent instruments, which may be worth asking about if your daughter is still on the smaller sizes. It would also allow you to arrange a violin fast, and then take your time thinking about whether or what to buy.

My son used a half-size for quite a while, long enough to make buying an instrument worth while. However, I am not sure if that would be true for girls (who tend to start their growth spurt earlier) - any comments from parents of girls?

I know an eight year-old who would love to have a growth spurt so that she can progress from a quarter-size violin...

W

The teacher will be able to tell you which size your daughter needs.

I bought my daughter's first 1/4 size violin (including case, bow etc) new on Ebay for £35 (thinking that she would lose interest quickly -how wrong I was!), then sold it on Ebay for the next size up for the same money, then bought a Stentor II from www.normans.co.uk for £75 then sold it on Ebay for about £50 and used the money to buy a 3/4 size from Normans again. These cheap instruments have been fine - she has had distinctions in all exams so no problem with the instrument.

So she has progressed through the small sizes for hardly any money and I intend to sell the 3/4 size on Ebay again soon now that she is almost ready to have a full size. For that I am going to a specialist violin shop and intend to spend about £2000 now that she is grade 6 standard and there isn't another size to buy. I know it will be money well spent. But I don't think it is necessary to spend much money on the smaller sizes.

Sorry its taken me a while to reply, but I wanted to say thank you to everyone for their replies, they have been very helpful

I'll send a note to the school on Friday for the violin teacher and probably ask her to ring me. I was planning on buying the violin as a surprise, but I can see now that, that isn't going to work. I'll ask about second hand ones (although I know she will want a purple one ).

Anyway, thank you very much again, no doubt I'll be back with more questions!!

I actually have a purple violin (of the two beginners ones at the store there was a choice between bright pink and purple, so I opted for the purple) There was a normal colored one but for an extra £10 I doubted it was going to make a lot of difference.

It rather surprised my teacher when she opened the case!

You can still surprise your daughter, we did. All her older siblings had 'real' instruments and she was on recorder and kept begging for a string instrument. Just before her 7th birthday we took her to Footes in Central London one Saturday morning, without telling her where we were going or the what we had planned. Took a longish bus journey, bit of sight seeing, then covering her eyes until she got the into Shop we told her that she had come to get a violin. She was so excited she could hardly keep still.

So she proudly sat on a chair to be fitted by the expert staff for the correct size to the length of her arm. She wouldnt let anyone touch that violin on the way home. This first violin was rented.

She slept that night with the violin in her bed A week later she had her first lesson.

When she outgrew it she again went to be fitted for the next size up. We decided to buy the 3/4 one as that lasted a bit longer and we got it from a friend for £20!

No, sorry, that is incorrect - unless the rules have changed very recently. The school may have its own scheme but it is not the AIPS scheme, there are strict rules on that (even though they get bent) and it does not apply to private schools.

Liz