Sorry for starting a new thread in the teacher forum, when I clearly don't fit into this category, but this does seem to be the most appropriate place...

Having found out my sandwich year placement location for next year, I was thinking that as I might have some money, it would be nice to start having flute lessons again. With this in mind, I started doing some cursory internet checks on the usual sites and simply through googling.

Once upon a long time ago, I was an intermediate-advanced level flautist. I failed G8 through a combination of being terrified of exams, and lack of preparation. This was at least partly the fault of my teacher, who entered me for the exam 6 months after I'd done G7. I also don't think she taught many students to G8 level who weren't also being taught by someone else (on piano, or doing Alevel music, for example). With this in mind, and my own lack of confidence, I'm not really prepared to go to a teacher that doesn't generally teach advanced students. I need to have total confidence in any potential teacher.

So I'm looking for teachers who advertise that they teach to G8... and beyond. And they seem to be very few and far between. I've found one in the area I'm looking at, and its a respectably sized city. I'm suddenly no longer suprised that odd posts regularly crop up from people looking for teacher recommendations.

So, where are teachers that teach at an advanced level? Are there really so few that feel confident at teaching beyond G8? Do those that do find they don't need to advertise? Is there simply very little demand for advanced level tuition? And where might I find someone?

I think that is the situation, to be honest! I have 30 pupils and have been teaching for eight years and currently only have three pupils who are grade 6 or above.

Maybe you should ring a few teachers whose ads you have seen and ask a few searching questions. You might find that there are some who quite happily teach all levels, but simply don't put it on their ad, or someone who has taught to that level in the past who doesn't currently have pupils around that level.

If you have a good university close by, I'd enquire there. Even if there is no music course available, many unis make tuition available for their students, and the teachers are often free-lance higher level. I know this is the case at Reading uni. The uni may well be able to suggest a few flute teachers and then you could get in touch and see whether they have a vacancy.

Another idea is to enquire through a professional orchestra near you. Many performers also do some teaching, usually at a high level. They may charge a bit more, but if they're guiding you through a diploma it could well be worth it.

Depending on where you are going to be, contact the nearest conservatoire and professional orchestra for advice. If there is a good local university with a reputable music department it is probably worth contacting them too as they will have lists of teachers who have links with the university for the practical teaching required for students.

The ISM also have a well regarded teacher list.

Do ask for a trial lesson with one or two teachers to see how well you get on and how comfortable you feel that you are going to get the best out of this year's lessons. What may suit one person perfectly may not work for another person.

Good luck, it sounds like a great project.

EDIT: You hit the send button just before me, BerkshireMum!

Great minds think alike! (Then again, fools rarely differ!! )

I know a teacher who has lessons with a member of a professional orchestra - he doesn't advertise, it's just done through word of mouth as he only wants very advanced students/teachers. And he's expensive!

I would second trying university music departments to see who teaches their advanced students. It's how I found my teacher during my postgrad year away from home (doing non performance music). My current teacher is an orchestral player, recommended by another I was in touch with through wind band, but was very lucky to get someone of that standing. All teachers I have had post grade 8 have been experienced performing musicians.

Good luck

This is an interesting point (and obviously a frustrating one if you can't find a teacher ) If you look at the figures for AB practical exam entries, the numbers decline steadily after Grade 1, and although about 30,000 took Grade 5 in 2008, that dropped to 13,000 for Grade 6. I think for many, Grade 5 is seen as a decent achievement and good place to stop, and I'm also sure that for AB the theory requirement has an effect.

Good luck with your search, tamsin

Get in touch with Beagle and Diapason! (See the thread on taking on young beginners.)
Wrong instrument, but I'd say there's bound to be somebody on the forums who could help, if they know where you're from.

Thanks for your encouraging responses. I'm pretty sure I'll find someone. My search isn't urgent yet, as I have a whole summer of being completely broke ahead, before moving to my new location! I suspect I shall also find myself being too picky, but umpteen years of reading this forum has given me some rather specific views on the 'ideal' and 'perfect' teacher. Forumite teachers beware! As my driving instructor put it "You're an absolute pain to teach!"

I was more baffled by the lack of teachers who say they happily teach all levels. The ISM site for example: Most say they teach up to 8, rather than 8+, even when they have a string of impressive qualifications. I guess in part it reflects the demand for tuition, but I know numerous talented instrumentalists who took G8 before Uni, and have done next to nothing with their instruments since. (And I'm at a Uni without a music department.) It seems like a real waste (or an untapped market). Maybe as adults they'll take up new instruments, or find groups to play with; but how many do exactly what I have, and let playing fall by the wayside? And maybe lack of demand for advanced tuition fosters an industry where few are confident to provide that service, even if they have the ability, because they teach at that level so rarely?

If you didn't mind giving a rough idea of where you're moving to, perhaps someone on the forum could suggest a good teacher for advanced students in the area?

For example, if you're moving up north, I know that there are quite a few northerners around here!

Really understand this problem as we had to search for an advanced level Recorder Teacher. In the end we got a recommendation form the local specialist music school. The staff there were very approachable and helpful. If you have a nearby conservertoire that might also be a good place to ask.

A Northerner here who could recommend a Flute Teacher. Just wish they lived nearer to us.

Good luck! hope you find someone suitable.

As you're all so keen to give recommendations, (though that was not really my intention in starting this thread! ) I'd be looking around Bristol, probably not starting til September time.

There are some of us about. As notmusimum has said, let us know where you will be based and I am sure we can come up with a few suggestions. All of my post grade 8 students have come through word of mouth - a good teacher at this level usually won't have to advertise regularly, if at all, for students.

Sorry much further North than that

We are spread over the country and many of us are using the service you want. There's no need to take up one of the teachers we know but #I'd rather go on a reccomend myself.

I'm not a flautist but I would have thought that the British Flute Society might be a start ; otherwise the colleges of music may have contacts with recent graduates or with teachers whose work is regularly encountered among their students. With the entry levels now being so high for colleges of music, I am sure the colleges get to know the teachers who frequently prepare students for entry.

If you contact Trevor Jones (the woodwind shop in Bristol) they will probably have a list of teachers and might be in a position to recommend who might be suitable for grade 8+.

I think these days less and less oyung people seem to have the focus, drive or determination to get that far with their instruments, particularly as the stress of GSCEs, AS levels and A2s etc seems to take so much toll... much more than when I was at school in the 60s for sure. Or is the lure of the screen (computers, mobiles etc) just too much of a distraction from anything outside school work?

I can't agree with you here, Violinia. It always surprises me how many young people do carry on with their instruments, particularly given the high cost of lessons. In my day you could learn free with peris at school, but there didn't seem to be any more youngsters interested then than there are now. Most people just learn an instrument for fun, and therefore aren't as dedicated as you seem to expect.

I think a major reason for not continuing lessons at uni (unless you're doing a music degree, when you're expected to) is the cost. The higher grade teachers do tend to charge more, and if you've already reached quite a high standard it's tempting to forget about lessons until you're earning. Most students are worried about the debts they're running up, and now the unis are talking about a massive hike in the tuition fees. I'd have thought most instrumentalists could do some band, orchestra or chamber playing at uni if they wanted to, as there are groups around.

If you call Duck, Son & Pinker (you can find them in the phone book - not sure if they have a website) they will definitely know some good piano teachers.

They are a really good music shop in Bath, but they get a lot of business from the surrounding areas, including Bristol.

I may spend a little too much time in there already! Particularly in the guitar bit. (Boyfriends!)

I could sugest some very good teachers via PM if you want, but they are all about 30-45 minutes drive away, so I don't know if that would be any good for you? PM me if you want some names from the wiltshire area!

Jacob.

When my daughter became advanced her flute teacher said she would recommend her to the flautist of a major orchestra for tuition. Her original teacher was very good but I thought it was very professional of her to say that she should move on to somebody else. I think the major orchestras are a good source of advanced instrument tuition but they are very expensive and (this next bit is just my opinion based on a few incidents that I know of) may only take pupils who are aiming towards music at a degree or conservatoire standard.

But I wasn't talking about uni-aged people - I meant kids. You only have to look at the grade exams stastistics and study the fall-off as the grades get higher. I think it would be a stretch to surmise that the higher-level students don't take exams so you can only conclude that they're giving up in vast numbers. Of course this may have always been the way, but back in the 60s when I was growing up there were frankly far less distractions and far less homework; a lot of your time was your own when you got home, and there weren't computers to veg out on. An easily distracted kid (like me) spent hours doodling around on the piano and practising the violin back then, whereas if I'd been young now I'm virtually certain I'd have been straight on that computer after school and my parents would have had a very difficult job dragging me off it...

Glad to hear you say that! I suggested this to a pupil once and it backfired terribly. The parents (and indeed the whole family it seemed!) thought the pupil must have behaved badly etc whereas she was simply very gifted and I didn't want to hold her back. I still teach her and now I feel I am able to give her something...but certainly they took a risk leaving her with a young and inexperienced teacher.

Hearing positive feedback like this is great for giving teachers the confidence to pass pupils on at the right time.

Sorry - my second paragraph was more related to post 10, but for some reason I forgot to quote it.

My impression looking back to my own youth is that many people did try instruments at school and then give up. Virtually anyone who wanted to was able to start an orchestral instrument at age 11 at my comprehensive; many took two or three exams and then decided it wasn't really their thing. A few really enjoyed instruments and went on to do higher grades. I personally did early grades on piano and guitar, but then stopped lessons, although I always played the piano a lot for fun. I don't think things are much different today.

I think what is different today is that most children are able to start instruments in junior school, and initally have a reasonable amount of spare time to devote to them along with many other after school activities. Many take exams on two or three instruments in the beginner grades, but once they get to secondary school the time pressure is much greater and so only the most dedicated continue with all/any of them.

I remember sitting down with my son at the end of year 7 and discussing with him which activities he was going to drop. At the time he was doing scouts, a church youth group, piano, clarinet, recorder and short tennis, and it had become obvious that it wasn't possible to continue with so many. He dropped scouts, recorder and short tennis. So even though he carried on with two instruments to grade 8 there would still have been a fall-off shown in the higher grades because of dropping recorder (which he'd got to grade 4 on).

Thanks for everyone's further suggestions. When the time for moving comes around (I only just started looking quickly), I'll see how my finances are and come back to this thread. I don't know that I need a teacher who teaches at conservatoire level, but jst someone used to working with G6+ students and lacking in confidence adult learners.

As regards children carrying on with instruments, my experience is that there is very little opportunity for children to learn instruments unless their parents are prepared to pay considerable amounts of money for the priviledge. The quality of music from Peri's, in school lessons, and provided by local music authorities seems to vary considerably. Perhaps in more middle class areas, where demand is greater, provision is better? Perhaps things have improved a lot since I left Primary School?

Evidently it is possible to find teachers who can prepare students who wish to study music, or make it their career, whether though universities or orchestras. As has been pointed out though, the cost of this could well be prohibitive... particularly if you're only really playing for enjoyment.

My original idea for this thread was to establish what teachers in general feel able to offer. If someone phoned tomorrow saying "I passed G8 3 years ago, and now want to carry on having lessons" would you be happy to take them on? Would the majority of teachers be happy to help a student prepare for a diploma? Similarly, many students reach G8 before going to uni, then rarely touch their instruments again. I know one Sports Science student who is preparing for a violin performance diploma out of all the G8 instrumentalists I know. The rest of us just can't afford lessons or don't have the time/inclination to carry on playing at that level.

It seems to me that two barriers stop people carrying on to become genuinely advanced on their instruments. One is G5, the other is G8; both seem to occur partly due to the timing of the exams compared to the education system (few students get past G8 before Uni/work kicks in), and partly attitude. (Got G3/5, well, you can play your instrument. No point in more lessons. Got G8, well, what's the point in doing more unless you want a music career?) That seems a real shame to me.

At the same though, is it any different to how we treat other things we learn? After all, G5 ~ GCSE, and few take many subjects past that level. Even fewer get past A level in a subject ~G8...

Possibly.