Sorry for the boring question!
Daughter just got a merit in her Grade 4 piano and asked her teacher to bring so Mozart's Alla Turca to her next lesson, which was last night.
She really loves the piece and can already play most of the first page, although slowly.
It strikes me that this is much more difficult than her Grade 4 pieces, so I wondered what sort of standard it is?
Violinma

This is always a difficult question with the big Mozart pieces, to be able to play it (bash it?) through you'd probably need to be grade 5/6 ish with hands large enough to cope with the octaves and at this stage you could have quite alot of fun with it, but to actually play it properly to a performance standard you would need much more experience.

Yes I agree, its not that difficult proved your hands can cope with the octaves, particularly when they split. The rest is just a case of learning it at a steady tempo then speeding up later.
Grade 6 ish I would say.

I would be wary of giving a 'grade' to any piece. Mastering the notes is one thing - what you then do with them is something all together different. Take a couple of very well known violin pieces for example which often come up as grade 7 exam pieces - the Meditation from Thais , or Schindler's List. There is no way that even an outstanding grade 7 candidate would get anywhere near the understanding or performance level of either of those to compare with a concert platform or recording artist (choose your favourite and insert here...........).

However, the Rondo alla Turka is a great 'real' piece for getting stuck into after grade 4 as there is so much to go at and enjoy. It is certainly accessible to get around for a comfortable, advancing pianist with reasonable sized hands (I'm assuming that you are talking about the original version not a simplified transcription) with plenty of opportunity and scope for musical development. Do not expect a concert-platform performance though - yet!

Congratulations to your daughter. Enjoy the Mozart!

The Rondo "alla turca" is one of those pieces that you think is easy when you are grade 5 or grade 6 standard, but from then on the better you get, the more difficult it seems. Most of Mozart's piano music is like that. It is paradoxically both easy, and immensely difficult at the same time.

The final page ought to create the illusion of an orchestral Tutti, but the notes are so sparse that it is very difficult to achieve.

If she likes it I'd say she should play it, but don't expect to master it. No-one ever completely masters a piece by Mozart, not Mrs Mills (who used to play this piece as the finale of her act on Blackpool pier!) and not even the greatest pianists - except, just possibly, Vladimitr Horowitz in one of his recordings of the sonata in C, K330.

I had a grade 6 student ( that's grade 6 distinction) who fancied learning this.
She learnt some of the easier sections quite well - but it never got beyond about 60% fluency.

[quote name='Mad Tom' date='Mar 19 2009, 11:53 AM' post='805318']
[quote name='fsharpminor' post='805312' date='Mar 19 2009, 12:29 PM']
Most of Mozart's piano music is like that. It is paradoxically both easy, and immensely difficult at the same time. [/quote]
That's it. That's exactly the way I feel about all the Mozart pieces I've tried to play so far. Even the easiest ones are so innocent-looking, so deceptively easy and then so hard to play really well!

Thanks everyone!
Of course my daughter is only attempting it as a young pianist. She is quite musical, piano is second study for her and this is the first piano piece that has really 'grabbed' her. There are some other ones she would like to attempt, but they are beyond her now. Maybe though if she practices as much as she has in the last 24 hours, she will play them one day!

I am just happy to hear her playing something other than the exam pieces!!

Violinma

Grade 8....... if it is to be played fluently. I would not even consider it with any student before Grade 7.

I feel the same for almost all the pieces I have played. The more I play, the more often I feel that e.g. this phrase is not well expressed, that bar needs clearer dynamics, that fingering isn't fluent enough ... There is no end to it. Once I think I play pretty well already, I listen to a professional recording, and uncover new issues.

In fact, I have the strange notion that the less complex a piece is, the greater the probability of hearing flaws. For example, I hear more issues in my own scales than in some pieces, because there is almost nothing to distract one from the slips and unevenness. Same thing for the unaccompanied song that I sang for G3 exams. It has a very simple melody, but I struggled with it for months, because every single note that came out of my mouth was clear as midday, and there was no piano accompaniment to hide behind.

As Artur Rubinstein is often quoted as saying: "Young pianists are given Mozart to play because of the small quantity of the notes; grown-up pianists avoid Mozart because of the high quality of the notes."

But some of those young pianists manage very well. Like this one for example: http://www.arielpiano.com/

Phenomenal! His Bach and Chopin are pretty good too. Looking forward to hearing his jazz when I next have a moment.

Many thanks for the site, Tom.

I played it for my grade 8 years ago, although that was alongside the rest of the variations. Saying that, I was always trying pieces that were graded harder than where I was at the time, if she enjoys it and isn't hurting herself trying it then why not have a go

I agree. I'm practising it at the minute for a forthcoming student recital. Achieving the contrast between the percussive nature of some parts and the delicacy of others is not that easy, and the LH arpeggiated chords in the section just before the end are hard to get just right at the same time as mainting the steady semiquavers in the RH - with the required lightness of touch.

This piece is actually on LCM's Grade 5 repertoire list. I had a pupil who wanted to play it for her LCM Grade 5 exam, but I talked her out of it, which is not something I often do; I usually let people play whatever they like, and if there are particular technical difficulties that they haven't encountered before, then we learn from the exam piece alongside similar music, but in this case I felt that the requirements were just too far beyond her capabilities if she wanted to do the exam within a reasonable timescale. Possibly the examiner would not be expecting a Grade 5 student to play this to 'concert standard', but I much prefer pupils to play something well rather than knowingly compromise the music.

I remember my son (now with a diploma) wanting to play this piece when quite young - I'm sure he didn't manage a polished performance but it was great for him to be playing a "proper" piece (out of Mum's big book of Mozart) rather than something specially written for learners and/ or in an exam book. He could no doubt play it better than me now....

Great quote! - and very true. I'm convinced you don't perfect a piece; you just decide to give up on it. Improvements are endless.

I actually saw Ariel on t.v. a while back, and knew he was prodigious then. Check out his Liszt Loreley!!

Yes, that's an excellent quote!

And the things I'm most nevous about performing are the things with the least notes too. I played the first movement of Bach's Italian concerto in public, but would have run to hide rather than play the second movement, which is sightreadable.

I agree with all that has been posted here. Daughter has now almost learned the first page. She plays in quite a mature style and is a sensitive musician, although piano is not her main instrument. Of course she can't hope to play with the maturity of an adult, but just seeing how she has been inspired to play by this piece is wonderful to me!
Violinma