The "botherer" did tell us that his wife had left him 12 months ago, but by the way he told us, it seems he was happier about that than if he had won the Euro-Lottery.

Mrs Botherer was apparently a mega b***ch (according to him)

Perhaps she had managed to keep him in check

Well, the latest is that I've just received a long letter - the first sentence saying "Hope you are well." ( Full of anxiety actually I should reply ).

Sentence 2 - "I am extremely disappointed and deeply insulted about some of the things said at my last lesson and cannot believe I was dismissed like a naughty school child." (I'm assuming she means when I told her how stupid it would be to take her own life just because of this. Also the fact that I had to threaten her with calling the police with her refusing to leave my home).

Sentence 3 - "Where do we go from here?"

Sentence 4 - "....all businesses have a variety of clients, however, you cannot be friends with all of them, but it should not jeopardize a happy working relationship."

Sentence 5 - "As I have spent considerable time preparing for Grade 6, would you please consider teaching me for one more term so that I can do the exam?" (she's not been entered yet, but would have been doing the summer ones).

Absolutely nowhere on the letter does the word "sorry" come up.

The letter she's sent was written yesterday and she would not have had my letter at that point, due to my delay in eventually plucking up courage to write it! I kept it very formal. My letter just states the fact that I will no longer be teaching her, and due to the way she makes 12 monthly payments, she owes me £25, which I said I wish to forfeit (but I was worried she might think I still owed her some lessons and turn up on my doorstep next week).

No way can I reconsider!

Very glad to read that last sentence of yours GM! Stay strong.

This person seems to be totally in denial. When is your letter likely to be received?

I definately don't think you should acknowledge this letter. My biggest concern over you writing ot the pupil in the first place was the follow on. I can see why you had to sort the financial situation out with her.

Once people get on the path of denial it's very hard to get off. Might be better not to get inot a written exchange. With unbalanced people the problem is that you can't predict which way they will go.

Good luck and I hope things move on for you very soon.

You will not believe this!! I've just been tidying the kitchen whilst waiting for my first pupil to arrive, and horror of horrors, I've found the stamped envelope I asked my son to post for me yesterday. (Someone's in trouble when they get in from school ). I'd expected her to have received the letter this morning. I wonder if I should re-word the letter to say I've received hers and no way can I reconsider? What a mess!

I think just sending the original letter will be fine. If you have it dated at the top she'll be able to see when it was written. Obviously her recollection of that day's events are skewed so I don't think entering into any more correspondence with her over the situation or anything she's written in her letter would make a difference.

You have made your position clear and concise in your letter and that is all that is needed really. If she should write or contact again to ask if her letter has changed your mind I'd just reply that you stand by your original letter, adding no further embellishments...

If you went on to give another explanation she would most likely want to respond with an argument to it and it would never end. You've done the right thing and keeping it simple is the best way

I'd just send it. After all if you'd posted it yesterday evening it would have today's postmark on it, not yesterdays. She has no way of knowing whether you posted it before or after you received her letter.

See what other people think though...

Just leave it as is.

If asked, you wrote the letter before you received hers, but your mind is unchanged - what you wrote in your letter still stands.

That's how I would do it.

Bad luck! - I think I would probably just post it too.

Is there anything you'd want to change in your letter in the light of having read hers? I hasten to add that I do not mean reconsider, but anything you would want to express more strongly than you did originally? if so you have the opportunity. Just a thought. You could still re-do it as though you had not read hers (ie not replying exactly), and keep the original date which you put on the first letter. If you see what I mean.

Otherwise I agree with the others and would just post it. Have someone in the house at the time of her next lesson, just in case, but otherwise regard the matter as finished.

With regards to the Glass Mountain case. Are you people blind? This person is more than likely to have mental problems, I'd report this to the police, but not as harassment, as her having a mental illness, this sounds like it could well be a severe case of dementia, it might not necessarily be that, but I'm pretty convinced from what I've read that this woman has a mental illness.

With regards to the original post. I'd say it depends on the context! I have no idea what context this is being said in! One of my students often says it but when he does, it's because he's just been trying something he finds very difficult and he says it in a jokey kind of way. Give us an example of when the student said this please.

The police would do what with this information? Section her?

I don't care what her problem is, I wouldn't want to be in her company and I certainly wouldn't want her criticising me if I was her teacher (the nerve of it). Get rid now.

Yes, quite. I wondered why it was necessary to be quite so rude ...

No doubt there are problems with this student. Most of us reading the post would have thought that blatantly obvious which is why we have been trying to give advice on the best way to deal with the situation. What would you report to the police exactly? Having a mental health problem doesn't in itself require law enforcement. I've had mental health problems... should I turn myself in now?!

You don't just go down the local station and report someone as "having a mental illness" because you've decided it must be so. I'm not blind but you are clearly ignorant

No crime has been committed therefore it isn't a police matter.

You might have noticed that some of us had already suggested that contacting the police could be appropriate in this case.

And it doesn't have to be mental illness - I had a relative who believed in being completely outspoken - perhaps not so argumentatively as this person, but others would have considered her rude. We didn't because we understood her and the reasons behind it. But she wasn't mentally ill.

GlassMountain - I hope by now you have posted your letter.

Just make sure that if you hear from her again (which I unfortunatly think is likely) to tell her that she is still able to take G6 in the summer but that she would be better off with another teacher.

Don't give in - one of my previous teachers had a pupil after me that made her feel physically sick as the lesson time drawed near - I think the same could happen with you. And you are not obliged to teach people - you can choose who you teach and who you don't.

Glass Mountain and Diapason, I am really sorry to read about your extremely unpleasant experiences.
There has already been lots of good advice offered but I'll chip in with my two cents worth anyway.

My husband used to hold a weekly art class for adults, and he had one very tricky customer whose arrival he would start to dread several hours before the class began. Her behaviour was never as bad as your students, but she made an unpleasant atmosphere and was quite rude on several occasions. (I think it could have been the drink talking as I got a whiff of it once and she always leant right away from my husband when he was looking at her work).
Anyway she gave up the classes after a couple of terms and it was only after she'd gone that my husband realised how it had affected him and it was a huge weight off his shoulders. A year later she asked if she could start again but he said no. He said (not to her) that the stress caused by her just wasn't worth it.

So.....GM, I'm glad you've finished with your student, and Diapason, one more word from yours and he should be booted out. Life is stressful enough without that sort of thing.

Sorry for the delay in replying after asking for advice, but I had to work. I am very grateful to all of you who responded to my earlier panic.

I took the advice that was given by most of you and I sent the original letter, apart from I re-typed the date as of today and I put one added sentence at the beginning, which said "I have received your letter and I hereby wish to confirm in writing that as of today's date I will no longer be teaching you......................" The only reason I added this is because I thought if she sussed out that her letter was received by me after I'd sent mine, then she may contact me again for an answer to her question if of whether I'll reconsider. Which I WILL NOT!

My hope now is that she will leave me alone, but time will tell. However, my husband has arranged to be here next Tuesday in case she turns up. I know that she will not be happy about the fact that I have not relaliated to any of the insults she wrote about me in the letter. However, I have kept the letter for reference and have written a detailed summary of the events, should I need them.

Thanks again - you are all so kind and I value this support!

Well done! I think your phrasing in the letter was exactly right and I'm very glad that your husband will be around next Tuesday, in case she does turn up. Stick to your guns!! Hopefully the worst is over.

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Well done! I think your phrasing in the letter was exactly right and I'm very glad that your husband will be around next Tuesday, in case she does turn up. Stick to your guns!! Hopefully the worst is over.
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Thanks Jenny

I think you've done the right thing too, and I hope it's the end of the matter for you. There's a fine line between highly strung and mentally ill, but either way, I don't think contacting the police at this stage of events would have been the right thing to do. If you were pretty sure it went beyond 'highly strung', then the social services, if anything, would have been who to get in touch with, as they're trained to deal with this sort of thing with sensitivity, and a community social worker or other health professional may already know the individual.

But I honestly don't think this is your responsibility. There is little that anyone can do unless an individual knows they have a psychiatric problem and is willing to accept help - or is sectioned - and you could only end up embroiled in a personal way that you would regret. Sorry if I appear unsympathetic to the other party, but if this person needs help, it will be evident elsewhere - probably more so - as others will be in her compny for longer spells than you have been.

Don't tell me there's another forumite that's up too late like me Thanks for your support though in these early hours Dulciana, and I totally agree with you and would find it difficult to believe that someone could diagnose mental illness as a result of a posting. I have spoken at length today to another pupil who grew up living next door to this lady, and her elderly mother still does. She is known in the area for being a spoilt woman who likes to have her own way and is a 'control freak.' Like I've said, I have kept her letter and mine, and all details of what went on (with the 2 boys who witnessed it) and my experience of the police knows at this stage they would be powerless to do nothing - nor would it be expected. However, I have my info ready just in case.

I, too, hope it's the end of this matter, but I know she won't like the fact that I've not given her any explanations to her criticism of me in my letter. It will also be hard for her to accept she'll not be playing in my big concert we're all getting ready for in May, as she loves playing to an audience (unlike the rest of the pupils who need tender loving care and confidence building to perform). I've decided that I'm not putting the details of the concert on my website, as she doesn't know the date of it and hope she doesn't find out. (Perhaps I'd better put bouncers on the door just in case ).

Thanks again!

Highly strung? It sounds as if both of these pupils ought to be. The higher, the better....

Don't ever apply for a job as a psychiatric nurse, HG...

And I thought my compassionate side one of my best features....

Glad I stayed up now


Thanks - you've both brought a smile to my face, which I've been lacking for the last few days

Many a true work spoken in jest, though. These people have mental / psychological problems. You are not paid nor trained to address these needs. By whatever means they need to be shown the door. Very little has thus far been said about the effect on the others who are paying for your services and yet are having their education or tuition affected adversely - not to mention the harmful emotional effect it has been having on other pupils etc. The OP said that there was a muffled "Hear hear". Well take it from me that it was only muffled because of the embarrassment and tension in the atmosphere. It is a British thing to bottle up emotion. What they were really thinking was: "Good on you, teach, you told him/her good and proper and we didn't think you had it in you!. We've a right to be taught too!" There speaks a teacher of 30+ years' experience.

LR

I worked with disabled people and mentally ill people for quite a while (so no ad_libitum, I'm not ignorant). The police won't issue an arrest, instead, they can keep a watchful eye out for this person and if there are any more problems, they can get involved, and help find a care home or hospital for her.

As to people saying I was rude, I didn't think I was as rude as people insulting this person for being aggressive in what she said, it's like making fun of the fact that someone can't walk if this truly is a mental illness.

Again though, what exactly would you be reporting? You can't report someone just for having a mental illness, even less so just because you think they might - that is my point.

No, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying report the incident and say you suspect it could be a mental illness, the police will keep an eye out for that person.

Re the incident at Glass mountains house. sectioning under the mental health act did cross my mind, but this was because there was behaviour that could potentially put other people at risk. However you normally need two qualified doctors present to do that, and it is not a pretty sight.

I'm glad you , your family and your other pupil and his dad came out of things OK.

Gosh this is a difficult area, mention sectioning, and you can come across as not understanding the mentally ill, which as someone who has treatment from a CPN in the past is far from the case. Yet it has its places. All the Pyschiatric workers I know don't like having to do it, but can see the need. You do not want to put a person or the people surrounding them at unnecessary risk. It's a terrible thing Mental Illness, and worst of all it isn't understood.

However if I felt under threat in my own house by a pupil who was going beserk, I'd probably call the police, and the on call doctor if necessary to protect my own and my families safety.

I might be going against the flow here, but are we maybe getting this a bit out of proportion? The whole situation sounds awful for Glass Mountain, but somebody who throws tantrums and is generally hard to deal with is still more likely not to be mentally ill, and the laws on detaining somebody under the mental health act are very strict. This is not enough for suggestions of that! This is more likely to be a lonely/unpleasant individual with low self-esteem and psychological problems, who isn't used to being shown the door. She had probably got away with so much up to that point that it came as a real shock to the system when GM finally snapped and decided 'no more'.

HE would usually express this in a tone of exasperation during my explanation of a point raised by another member of the class.

It is not just the phrase, it's the air of complete lip curling disdain with which he says it.

Tomorrow will tell - it's "The TUESDAY Group" ! WIll he turn up or will he be absent???

.....and I happen to think of "Get A Life" (or "Gerra Life") as an arrogant and scornful phrase in any case, but that's just MY opinion.

I agree! Totally uncalled for and very rude. I'm interested to see what happens this week...

:agree:and thanks for that Dulciana. I'm feeling a little fragile at the moment, so don't want to respond to the others as to whether or not I should report her to the police or not. (Worried that she might have the nerve to show up tomorrow, but my husband has taken the day off work just in case, as I don't want a scene in front of any more pupils). I have spoken at length to a neighbour who's lived next door to her for over 30 years, who assures me she's a spoilt person who likes her own way, and nothing more (hence the problems this person has had due to sharing a driveway with her over the years). Apparently, she will use any manipulation she can to get her own way. Also, her husband and children are lovely people (albeit controlled by her). She herself, is known in the areas as a very nice person, as long as things are going her way. When I told this person about the suicide threat, she told me not to worry as it would just be a ploy to get her own way with me.

I, myself, teach (and have taught) several people with mental health problems and like you said, none of them have ever had tantrums with me.

Thanks for the support!



Just to let you know, Diapson, that I'll be thinking of you and hope the student doesn't come back (just like I hope my student doesn't turn up on my doorstep tomorrow).

Wishing you both a problem-free teaching day !

If I was a member of the group, I would definitely be looking to the teacher to put a stop to any unpleasant or disruptive behaviour. One of the reasons I left a previous group was because some people had no respect for the teacher/conductor and kept chatting every time we stopped playing, and the teacher/conductor just stood there waiting for them to finish In the end I felt as if it was a waste of an evening. It sounds as if the rest of your group are lovely, diapason, and I suspect they must be willing you to get rid of this chap. He might decide not to chance his arm again with the "Gerra life" line, but to come up with some other way of being disruptive Personally I wouldn't have any qualms about telling him to leave if he plays up again, if only because some of the rest of the class might leave if he doesn't.

Best of luck to both of you today, diapason and Glass Mountain.

I agree too. I cannot think of any situation where this phrase is acceptable unless as a joke between friends. In this context it shows distain and a total lack of respect, directing the attention away from the teacher to himself, like a naughty schoolboy.
Maybe you could give him lines? "If I be have like a naughty schoolboy I will be treated like one..."
Seriously, I hope you both have better days today - GM I hope Madam doesn't turn up, and Diapason I hope he's thought about it over the week and is thoroughly embarrassed so that you don't have any more trouble.

Thanks for all the comments and advise about mine (and G M's) troublesome students.

I'm sure these people will not be the last of their kind and certainly ain't the first

I've often been told I should have written a book

Today 1pm is kick-off (or not as the case may be).........watch this space

Will check back later!

Me too - I'm awaiting the outcomes with interest! Hope it goes well for both of you...

Stay strong!!

Seconded! Good luck!

It must be indicative of how much more misbehaviour I'd tolerate from your pupil that I mis-read the last sentence to say "kick-out" rather than "kick-off"......

Hope all goes well for you.

Good luck, both! Here's hoping that neither of those horrors turn up.

I think you said what I meant to say but better. However, if Glass mountain felt that either the pupil of anyone in the house at the time was "at risk of being harmed" then that's the time to get some help in. Leave the rest to them. They can soon tell if this is just an attention seeker, or someone they need to help further.

HE didn't turn up (Am I unkind?)

Instead we had a visit from our "chairman" (hurrummph) who had received a phone call from "Gerra Life" saying that I had berrated him in class and he wasn't paying to be berrated.

The whole class came to my defence and some that had not spoken out before related that HE had been rather rude to them during his time with us.

It seems that it has come as a relief to all that he is no longer coming for lessons.

The End

Fantastic! I just caught up with this thread and have no advice to offer which hasn't already been mentioned, but I'm so glad you are rid of this annoying and rude person.

What a relief! Hope you all get to enjoy the lessons more from now on.

Yes - I hope so too! Great that the rest of the class came out in support!

now we just need to hear from GM - let's hope that worked out ok too ...