What would be YOUR reaction if a student constantly responded to information given to the class with "GERRA LIFE !"

And this is an ELDERLY ADULT in one of my keyboard classes!!



("Roger" will accuse me of being arrogant again, I expect )

I would smile sweetly and respond like this:

"If you say that to me once more I will ram that keyboard down your throat sideways. Now please be quiet and listen. Thank you."

That is in an IDEAL world Petrat

OH, HOW I would enjoy that!!

You haven't seen me in full flow with my adult choir when they get noisey though! Presumably you have tried the polite method?

How bizarre. What reaction does he / she get from the other students?

Yes, I laughed it off at first, but today, I snapped.

I stared straight at him, and informed that THIS IS MY LIFE and if all my pupils were to behave like you, then there's NO chance of Eamonn Andrews coming through that door with a flamin' red book in his hand!!

Stunned silence from the rest of the class, and then a very quiet "hear, hear" from another class member.

Not a popular class member

Good stuff! Do let us know if

1 It works.

2 He returns next week.

Good for you. It beats me why an adult would behave in this way - after all, they are not compelled to be there. You did say the person in question was elderly - maybe this is part of a dementia? - inappropriate disinhibited behaviour can be a feature....

Perhaps they won't come back. Sounds like the rest of the class are fairly unimpressed too, in which case good job you put a stop to it before you lost any of them.

Can't wait for next week's instalment. Please keep us informed.

Will do!

I rather hope that he doesn't come back, because he is a bit on the "coarse" side - the odd f-word has slipped out at times , and I have observed the reactions from other members of the group....who are all absolutely lovely.
I think HE joined later and tried to take over as pack leader.

Yes SUeHM - I would say around mid-70's.........strange

Just couldn't believe this post has come up today of all days! Am sat here shaking and tearful about a terrible experience with an adult today. She's been a nightmare for 3 years, but I've had to put up with her shouting at me on many occasions, she's had many tantrums, she constantly criticises me and I spend every week having to be on my guard and ready for when she tries to trip me up and correct me. Today, I'd had enough as there were 5 incidents in a 30 minute lesson and in the end I told her I didn't want to teach her. The tantrums started again, she raised her voice to me again, threatened that if I didn't reconsider she'll throw herself off a bridge and for 20 minutes refused to leave my home - by now this was all in front of the next 12 year old pupil and my own 13 year old son, who rang his Dad to come home from work. This is the first pupil I've ever asked to leave me in 18 years of teaching. She did leave in the end, but told me I've not heard the last of her!

I'm just trying to remind myself of the hundreds of adults I've taught (I did 10 years of large classes of keyboard) and I still teach lots of adults the piano and keyboard at home - most of who are so lovely, kind and grateful to me.

Boy, has SHE got problems!! Serious ones!!

DO be careful dear G M

I have had a similar experience some years ago and found myself looking over my shoulder for many weeks afterwards.

Oh dear. Poor GM. And Diapson.
Hope you both get it sorted out asap.

God these people sound terrible. You have my every sympathy - neither of you need these people in your life and I really hope you can manage to get rid of both of them without repercussions.

Re the woman, GM, do you know anybody else who knows her? Can you find out any background information on her so you can work out whether what she's doing is just making idle threats or whether she really is a danger to people? If she's a danger you can go to the police and they can issue her with a warning to leave you alone - that would give her a much-needed jolt.

Hope both of you can sort these unpleasant people out asap...

Thank you for that Diapson, and I'm sorry if I've come in and hijacked your post. I didn't intend to, it's just that I couldn't believe that today of all days someone else was posting about a problem adult. In fact, I thank you for that, even though I feel very sorry for you too. In a class situation, when I used to teach 16 adults at once, it's more the embarrassment in front of the other pupils isn't it? I always found the loud mouthed ones that shouted out any comments were the ones who really felt inferior. I once had to stand between two grown men to stop them punching each other. I'm glad you had the rest of the pupils' backing though and that you came back with a good comment.

Good Luck!

One of my other adult pupils grew up living next door to her and has told me for long enough that I need to stop teaching her. She's told me not to worry as she's just a bully and likes to get her own way. Believe it or not she's a pensioner, even though she acts very childish!

I'm going to write her a letter in as nice a way as I can and just hope and pray she will accept this and not try to hound me. I cannot reconsider teaching her as my own children don't want her in the house after this and neither does my husband. I tried so hard to see the best in her, and like I said, I've never had to ask a pupil to leave before so that was hard in itself. However, to receive threats like this was such a shock!

Thankfully, all my other pupils are lovely and I'm trying to hang onto this for the moment.

Thanks for your support.

GM - do you really need to write to her? You have made your position clear. I think I would leave it at that. If she really is just a loud-mouthed bully, I doubt you will hear any more from her. Writing a letter might precipitate some further contact. One episode of shouting and threats I would probably put down to experience and let go. If she does ANYTHING further I would go straight to the Police and report it.

What a horrible person. I cant believe you put up with her for so long... Hope you are feeling better today.

I would get in touch with the police about her anyway - She's threatened to jump off a bridge, now it might be an empty threat but it would be for her own safety (and yours!) if you did contact them, I think.

What a terrifying experience.

Writing a letter to this lady can do nought but good I think. It will make it perfectly clear to her that lessons with you are now at an end and you will not have her turning up for her next week as if nothing has happened. It will give you closure on the matter and she will realise that you did not simply ask her to leave in the heat of the moment.
Some pupils can prove a real test of our good natures can't they?

This is shocking I've never had anything like this, nor do I want to, I suppose when you think about it (I do home visits) you don't know any background information about pupils unless they tell you!

Be careful everyone Oh and I've no idea what I would say to the original pupil.

I'm so shocked by these 2 posts, but especially by GM's. What an awful experience for you in your own home! You've already been given some very good advice by others, so I just wanted to say that we're all feeling for you. Do keep us in touch with what happens.

Me too. Great reply, Diapason!

GM that was most unpleasant. I do hope you see and hear no more from this person.

Agree with the above : must have been very unpleasant...

Re : suicide threats - please remember that everyone is responsible for their own actions. Threatening to kill yourself if someone doesn't do what you want is manipulative and wrong. Whatever happens next is entirely the choice of the ex-student and nothing to do with you, GM.

Edit : If student turns up again, ask them to leave politely (preferably from behind a closed door), do not let them into your house, tell them you will call the Police if they do not leave immediately and be prepared to do so - have the phone in your hand.

GM I would not write to the person in question, the best thing to do would be to let it lie.

I've only ever experienced one adult have a tantrum in this way and I was totally shocked. In my case I wanted some holidays that interferred with my boss's social life. I couldn't believe that anyone would react in that way and it's the shock of it that's the most unsettling.

What worries me in this situation is that the person might just be unbalanced enough that any contact however negative acts as a trigger and exculates their behaviour. Leave it all to calm down and then think about what you might need to do next

Diapason hope you are rid of this person.

What a nightmare.
There are a number of things I would seriously counsel you to do today.
First you need to contact some agency about a suicide threat. Unless one is made it jest I think action needs to be taken if you are in any kind of professional position with this person. Contact the police or local social services today and let them know that this threat has been made. It is then no longer your problem.
You don't want to find yourself facing some kind of inquiry and saying you did nothing.
Secondly you really should write to this person confirming that lessons have ceased. The shorter the letter the better. There is no need to go into reasons or to apologise.
All you are doing is confirming the outcome of the lesson yesterday. Then they can't claim any misunderstanding.
Were it to be me I would arrange for someone else to be in the house at the time of their lesson next week just in case but a letter should solve that.
Next you have the 12 year old pupil to think about. You should really contact their parent and explain what happened and what their child was exposed to. You can at least reassure them that you have taken steps to ensure this doesn't happen again.
Obviously there is also your own son to take care of. It must have been dreadful for you to have two children there witnessing such scenes.
Sometimes things happen which need to be dealt with at the time but I would guess that with a student like this one it would be better to notify them that lessons are going to stop in writing outside of the lesson time and ideally with some kind of notice period.
I hope you don't hear from her again.
Dora

I'd agree with this. Just in case there might have been any doubt. I'd keep it polite but make it clear that it's a confirmation of termination of lessons.

I absolutely agree with Dulciana and others who have said (to GM) that it might be better to write - make it short and to the point, just so there is no room for any misunderstandings. In this instance, I wouldn't bother about notice periods. Any contract you may have had has been terminated by her unreasonable behaviour. If you owe her any money, I would return it, just so that she has no further excuse to contact you. And if she owes you money, I would let it go. This probably contradicts anything I've said previously on the subject to other posters. But you need to be careful.

Yes and keep a copy of the letter so that if she continues to harass you you'll have something there to show you requested no further contact.

I'm not sure whether you have an actual duty to report a suicide threat made by an adult - probably not. They say it is best to take all threats seriously, but if someone did go through with it I doubt you would be responsible by law or be subject to any sort of enquiry. I think it's more a matter of conscience than anything else to inform someone who might be able to help.

The man from the keyboard class could do with a letter as well!

Thank you so much - this brought tears to my eyes, and it's so comforting to know just how many people like you, who I've never even met, are with me in this!

All great advice.

Take care of yourself and maybe try to make sure your husband is in at her allotted time next week.

Hope you're feeling better.

Diapason: cannot believe the manners of that pupil!!! I agree with ad lib...maybe he could do with a polite "go away!!!" too.

And yes, Petra, some pupils really do put us on the back foot. There's nowt as queer as folk!

When faced with the threat of suicide, medical professionals are obliged to assess the tone, mood, severity, seriousness of the threat, and how likely it will be carried out. If it is felt that the threat is not genuine, it is not necessary to do anything drastic, if it is one is obliged to inform acute psychiatric services and the GP. If the person does carry out a suicide attempt and the medical professional have not taken appropriate precautions, he/she could be struck off the medical register (if found to have been negligent), and that would the end of their medical career.

A music teacher however is not bound by such responsibilities, and it all depends on your feeling of how genuine the threat was.

I agree most of all with Dora's post. Do let the 12 year old pupil's parents know that you have said good-bye to your disruptive adult.

Secondly, just a simple notification to the police of this adult's statement would make you feel that you have done your duty. In reality, it's probably all you can do, or need to do. The police may have had similar comments from other people. It does happen - my mother's had problems with someone who lived nearby and neighbours complained and the police were able to sort things out with the GP. It may simply be that this person needs to be on some medication and has forgotten to take it.

And well done to your son for being so on-the-ball to call his Dad.

I have rang the boy's parents, and his Mum said she was going to ring me later anyway. She said that both her and her son were just upset for me and were more concerned that I was ok. She even told me her son worships the ground I walk on - bless! He'd told his Mum that he was glad the lady won't be coming back, as he could see the effect she had on me and the fact I always needed a coffee before I started his lesson

As for my son, he's quite proud that he came to the rescue, and what I didn't realize was that he walked into the room with the portable 'phone in his hand with his Dad on the other end, so my husband could hear everything that was being said.

The two boys had a little discussion afterwards at how she was worse than the kids at school. We then had a mini concert where they both played their latest pieces to each other, so that was nice! I've also arranged to give the boy an extra lesson, to make up for lost time yesterday, even though is Mum said it's totally unnecessary. Just a reminder to me of how nice most people are

Yes, I agree with this advice entirely, and with the advice to let the 12 year old child's parents know that lessons with this disruptive adult have been discontinued.

As for the suicide threat, take no notice. I'm sure it was merely an empty threat.

EDIT: Just noticed that you have spoken with the parents. Good!

Yes, they are! We musn't forget that. You were unfortunate enough to encounter a very unpleasant one, though. I gather from your first post that this person has been behaving in an unacceptable way for a long time. I'm left wondering how you put up with her for so long - you must be a saint!!

Also, full marks to your son for having the prescence of mind to phone his dad and let him know what was going on.

Sincere sympathies with you both.
I'm with Dora's advice on this one too. Do write as briefly as you can to make your position completely and unambiguously clear.

This is probably not very helpful at the moment but it is worth noting that the ISM teaching contract has a clause in it to the effect that the teacher has a right to terminate the lessons at any time if they feel uncomfortable with the actions of the pupil or anyone connected to the pupil. Perhaps this is something that you could consider for the future ? (although I really hope that lightning does not strike twice for either of you.

Thanks for telling me that - I'm glad I'm working within my rights. I've been dithering for long enough about joining the ISM or EPTA, but I wasn't sure which was the best one. Now I hardly think it matters - I need to join one of them quick pronto!



Yes, I have been having problems for a long time, and twice in the past suggested that she left me, but both times she actually begged me to keep her on. I put up with her for so long as I kept telling myself that she was probably like it due to problems in her own past, and surely I could just cope with one 30 min session per week - in fact I even tried to feel sorry for her rather than hate her. I do try very hard at building up good working relationships with people and have told my own daughter that we have to learn to deal with people in life who we don't always gel with. I have learnt the hard way now, and the word 'mug' comes to mind rather than 'saint.'

I wouldn't beat yourself up about it, GM. And I'm sure no-one on here thinks for one moment that you've been a 'mug'. I, for one, am filled with admiration for how you handled such a horrible situation.

As for ISM and EPTA, I happen to belong to both; but if money were an issue, I'd choose EPTA, as you get pretty much the same benefits, including insurance and free legal advice ( which I've used on a few occasions) but for about half the price - £62 as opposed to £120 annual membership.I also find the EPTA events more fun and friendly than the ISM ones - but I think that might be a regional thing. ( I'm in SE London.)

I agree, and I think you sound like a lovely teacher (and mum! ). For every one like this one (and how many can there be ), there must be dozens if not hundreds of people who have very much appreciated the way you've dealt with them, and have benefitted from it.

I've already had some phone calls from pupils in my class who agreed with the manner of my response, and expressing their hope that HE does not make another appearance next week.

If he does, I shall have a quiet word with him and ask him to conduct himself in a manner more befitting the class, and if his has an opinion about my explanation, I am quite happy to hear HIS take on it without the sneering sarcasm.

Ow's abowt that then?

d (for diplomacy )

All the best advice has been given already I think!

But here's a couple of hugs:

I think Glass Mountain and I have got it sorted........

Until next time

Excellent - good to hear you have the support of the class. I would go further and tell him that if his behaviour continues you will have no choice but to kick him out of the class (dead diplomatic, like....)

Thank you for helping me make my choice - I've downloaded the EPTA forms and will send that cheque off in the morning


I'm so pleased to hear that, and for all those who've rang you, there'll be the same support from all the others at home who've not thought to ring! When I used to teach the keyboard in big classes in Adult Education, I found the adults were always so supportive and protective of me against any criticism or grumbles.

The particular lady I've just had problems was in a small keyboard class originally in my home, but I had to tactfully remove her from it as she caused such an atmosphere in what was a lovely friendly class. Little did I know, she'd be even worse on a one-to-one basis!

Will be interesting to see if he comes back next week to your class!

It occurred to me that the delinquent old s*d would not be paying to do this course, as a pensioner, (sorry if I'm wrong here) and enrolled merely to have an arena in which to display his comic talents.
In which case his place could be better filled by someone who would appreciate the tuition on offer.
I hope this will be the outcome. I know you will handle the situation in an exemplary way. Do let us know how you get rid of him get on.

I'm so glad that GM is taking very sensible action here, and that you'll be able to put this horrible experience behind you soon. I know someone who used to teach a very difficult person, similar to the lady you've had this trouble with - a very difficult situation indeed.

My instinct with diapason's botherer is that there may be some mental health issues here - the things you describe sound almost involuntary outbursts - Tourette's-ish..don't know if you can look into his background at all, d (for discovering)??

Perceptive advice, Cyrilla, but whatever the problem is, it's disrupting Diapason's class, and if the others get fed up it is they who will stop coming, not the botherer (what a lovely word!).
Purely from a business point of view, and for the sake of the others, he needs to go - now.
d (dishonourable discharge?)

I've been thinking the same thing. I always try to look at things from the other person's view, although this one does sound very rude and objectionable! There could be a sad story behind his behaviour. But I know that doesn't help Diapason.