Seeing as there's a very popular upper strings beginners' thread, thought I'd start one for us beginner cellists (and bassists if there are any!) to provide moral support and help for each other because I'm sure I can't be the only one who has just started!

Same "rules" as for upper strings - discussions for those up to Grade 3ish!

Okay...I'll start. I have now been playing cello for two weeks and at my lesson on Monday sight read one of the Grade 1 pieces (think it was one of the Minuets, but wasn't given it to take home to practise, so can't remember the piece's name exactly!) Also given "Rigadoon" to practise, and a Hornpipe piece.

I am finding it lots of fun but do have lots of bad violinist habits (or just things I do wrong on violin which I am also transferring to cello!). I get the bow hold perfectly in my lesson, but as soon as I practise at home it goes wrong again! I also apparently have a very stiff right shoulder which I have been told I need to relax! And I keep tilting my left fingers (like a violinist!). I also find the A string quite hard to play when practising at home, because it feels like it's at an awkward angle: too far away - I think I may be tilting the instrument a bit too much! But it sounds very nice once I get over the awkwardness of position!

Next week I am to be shown 4th position (and Grade 2 pieces apparently!). Apparently cello 4th position is the same as violin 5th position - ie the fingers are in the same place as in 1st position - just on a different string.

Sounds like you're storming ahead with your cello playing, false_harmonic.

Are you bringing it to Leeds?

I haven't decided yet! Should I?

Yes.

I have done all of the research for a cello and am collecting a couple to try on Saturday.

I can't wait!

I played tenor sax for about 12 years in various wind orchestras and swing bands etc which was great fun.

Then I sold it to buy a motorbike! I just got tired of not being able to play in a "proper" orchestra! I did however keep singing in a choir as I have been doing some sort of music for ages (not particularly well I hasten to add!).

I was inspired by a wonderful lady in the choir to take up the cello and now my aim is to play in the orchestra that accompanies our choir when we do a concert. It will be a while I'm sure, but I will stick at it.

This forum has been an inspiration, great idea for a thread

I have my first cello lesson booked for Monday evening (my first music lesson for about 17 years!), so I can decide which cello to buy and hopefully learn a few basics....now where do I put the reed......????

the reed slots into the bottom of the instrument, and acts as a stand, so the cello doesn't touch the floor. (if you've ever seen someone playing the cello, you might have seen this--it looks almost like a piece of metal.) most of the time it's not involved in playing the instrument, but in some pieces you will see parts marked "spiccato". this is Italian for "separate", and means you should pick up the cello (thus separating it from the floor), hold it to your mouth so the neck is facing away from you, and play it with the reed.

this is a fairly advanced technique, so many people on this forum probably won't have heard of it. it was taught to me by a member of the Sealand State Orchestra, who often used it in performance to great effect.

Sounds like something somebody who carries a trumpet in a tuba case, and a violin in a cello case would try....

Glad someone started this thread!

I'd love to learn cello too, but I can't possibly afford the £$£ or even the space for one, so I've had to content myself with viola, which, thankfully, I'm very fond of anyway.

Hope this thread is useful and I will now get my interloping self off it!

Hello, I'm hoping to start the double bass , as soon as it arrives, have found a teacher and am looking for advice about beginner tutor books?
Any help would be appreciated,
I usually play the viola, and am just about to take grade 6,
thanks for starting this thread

Hi Gummidge, if you look down the posts list you will find a thread about tutors which I asked a while ago.

Sorry I don't know how to do a clever link thingy.

I did ask about cello though so maybe no good...

River,

great reply about the reed. LOL.

Just stopped laughing. At last, now all those years of sax lessons will not be waisted as I start a new instrument!

I was wondering how on earth I am going to get my new cello under my chin!

I have broard shoulders so this should help!

So glad this thread exists and already giggling at the witticisms exchanged! Look forward to hearing about everyone's progress, challenges and ruminations on the wonderful world of cello/double bass.

As soon as I can get my hands on a double bass I'll be joining this thread but that may not be for another year at least, unless one is donated to me (yeah right)
It's been on my list for a while, I have this love for the violin and its opposite, the bass

It is such a cool instrument - anything that huge has got to be fun hasn't it?!

I went on a 'google sprint' after I posted, to look into double bass rentals. I have emailed a couple of music shops asking them for their cheapest rental (even if it's a used double bass).
But double bass teachers are far and apart near where I live, loads in london (central/north/east and west) but only a couple further south in greater london where and they are far enough not to be able to travel to my house, once I sort out a rental i will contact them seeing if perhaps I can go to them and have the lesson on their double bass (as lugging mine won't be fun)
so, lower strings beginners, what books would you reccomend I start on?

When my daughter was thinking about the Double Bass a few years ago (she actually ended up playing the bass guitar instead), we found a teacher in the Surrey/SW London area - PM me if you would like the details.

Ok I have gone and thrown myself into it, now there's no going back!!!!
Am excited and nervous at same time!!!!
Am going to buy a stentor 2 double bass ( all in solid carved maple and ebony fingerboard) tomorrow!!!!!!
This will be on an interest free term paying 20% deposit and monthly payments of £30. No obligation, any time I want to opt out I can return instrument and won't have to carry on with payments but I won't get any money back so I think it's worth to finish instalments!
Found myself a teacher too!!!!!!!
Going for my first lesson this Saturday morning! 1 hour!!!
She is lovely and is an experienced bassist (classical), her husband runs/owns a luthier shop and also plays and makes double basses. I have been a customer of theirs with my violin for past 2 years
Will go to her house for lessons, which is 20 minutes drive from where I live. Will do lessons on her bass and leave mi e at home.
I can't believe I'm doing this as strictly speaking I shouldn't have committed myself to more 'spending' but I think this will be worth it!!!!
So now I will officially be a 'lower strings beginner thread poster/member'

Yay another recruit! How exciting Jojo! (sorry, I'm finding your username quite amusing - did you ever see the French documentary film "Etre et Avoir"?).

I wonder if the shop I hired my cello from will let me pay in installments at the end of the rental period - I'm not fancying playing out £440 at once!

Best of luck and let us know how your first lesson goes!

(Just saw your post on the other thread - how long have you been playing violin? I'm finding on cello the space between the pegs and where you put first finger is HUGE - I imagine it will be even more exaggerated on bass!)

hi there!
just got home with my new double bass!!!
picked it up from central london, walked 10minutes to bus stop, got on bus (during rush hour), to victoria station, got on train, on the other side got on bus again and another 5 mins walk, am knackered now!
Am soooo excited, today felt even better than the day I picked up my new violin! The better part with the double bass is that I can hug it!! I hugged up to it on the bus and train the whole way home!! It's taller than me!
Anyway, going to be up late looking at it, dusting it (it's got dust on it!!!), learning how to tune it I think. And boy, you were right about those gaps!!!
on G string I press with my 1st finger to get an A and have to use my 4th finger for the B!!!!!!!!! what??????

Anyway, thank you for the welcome in the 'lower strings party'

I've been learning violin for just over 2 years now and I 'think' I am about grade 4 to 5 on that.

Some people tell me I might only need grade one on double bass for some amateur orchestras to let me play with them?? surely they were exaggerating???
surely you have to be at least grade 5 if on violin they want you to be 7 or 8??
anyone know??
of course I'll ask the orchestra direct

There were other basses in shop I really liked but boy what a price tag on some of them!!! something to look forward to one day hey?

they only had one book in shop which is team strings, so bought it as I want to get started on ANYTHING right now, then on saturday my teacher can tell me what other book to buy!!


AM SO HAPPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Using 1, 2 and 4 for semitones (eg A, Bb, B) is normal in the lower positions. Past the shoulder, the orthodox fingering is 1, 2, 3 for semitones. Just below the shoulder, I can use all four fingers with semitones between them (like 'cello fingering) but that's unorthodox.

There are certainly orchestras that would accept a Grade 1 bass player. It's still a scarce instrument. Unfortunately, they are not too thick on the ground. The East London Late Starters' Orchestra is one, and Da Capo (west of Reading) is another, but neither is near the area served by Victoria station. Google searches should find them, and ELLSO may have information about something nearer you. Your teacher may have contacts.

P.S. I don't have any qualifications on bass.

Well well well
had my 1st lesson today!

Now, it went well, we did 4 scales (a minor, e sharp minor, b flat and f major) and one grade one piece.

She was well pleased by how well I hold the bow and how well I 'bow' and my posture and everything apparently, she went onto saying that I will be doing grade 5 in 6 months !!!
Now, on one side I was thinking 'no, she's only being nice to me', on the other I thought, actually, she's an experienced teacher, why would she give me such high hopes to then only 'shatter them' later? so maybe there's some truth in there???

She gave me the book: Double Bass Solo 1 and ticked loads of things for me to do before next lesson!

As I took the stentor 2 double bass I bought 2 days ago to her house for her to see, she took a good look and a try, she asked me what other basses the shop had and I said that this stentor was top in the price I could afford, I said to her they had a Zeller which was £155 more expensive BUT came without bow and case unlike the stentor and if I had to buy a bow and case I'd spend another £100 to £150 on top, bringing the price tag £300 more than the stentor.

BUT the zeller has spirocore strings on it and the stentor I have has cheap £40 chinese strings on!

So, she said I should have gone for the Zeller as I will 'outgrow' the stentor way too quickly and then I won't be satisfied with it, but with Zeller I may keep it indefinitely, also, she said the Zeller will sell at a higher price in future if I want to trade it off against another one.

I highlighted I could not afford the zeller, not especially without a bow/case, so she rang the music shop as she knows the people in there who play bass, apparently I have entered a 'very selected group' now with playing the double bass, they all know each other!!!

She spoke 5 minutes on the phone, put the phone down and said: ok if you go to the shop now they will give the Zeller with free bow and case!

I was ecstatic! especially as I have heard the zeller and the stentor being played in the shop and the zeller sounded heaps better!!! and I did want that one, I didn't buy it as I could not afford to fork out extra then even more extra for bow and case!
So went up to London and swapped the stentor for the zeller with spirocore strings, all in all an excellent day and an excellent start to my double bass career!!!

party on

Well done.

Sounds like you've got an excellent deal on the double bass.

YEP, thanx Flossie

by the way:
how many double bass players are out there in this strings forum? are you all hiding?
or is Kenm the only one apart from me?

I will not buy a double bass, I will not buy a double bass, I will not buy a double bass....

Well, looking wouldn't hurt would it? Perhaps I could even touch, as long as I put it back afterwards.

Arrrrgh, *rocks and repeats* I will not buy a double bass, I will not....

rosfrog, I tried that one for 3 years, must say I did well to last this long, but succombed at the end, to 'the power from the opposite side'

Aha! You have found the teacher I had in mind - the person I remembered when you first posted about learning the double bass and saw your location. Glad you managed to track her down. And even better news that you have had such a positive first lesson - I love hearing about first lessons, they are so important and memorable. Welcome to the world of lower strings!

HAHA that is funny miss sooky
I rang her shop and asked the italian woman who works in there if 'they knew any double bass teachers' I could contact to learn (I knew the owner's wife is a bass teacher, I just didn't want to be 'pushy' just wanted to see if 'she wanted me'). The lady took my details down and I got a phone call the next day.
She was lovely on the phone and I could see she is a kind hearted person with a genuine love to help people and pass on her experience, I knew I was going to like her as a teacher.

Learning the bass is taking me back to those early days on the violin.....sore fingers, sore shoulder/arm

The bass strings are SO hard to push down in half position it's a real 'schwarzenegger job!!!' and I have to get used to keep all my fingers down on fingerboard when I do 4th finger or 2nd, whereas on violin I may or may not have all my fingers down, depends. AND the GIGANTIC gap from 1st finger to 4th in half and first position: BOY!!!

Today I made the mistake to practice the bass BEFORE the violin, a mistake I will never make again!
As I had sore fingers/arm/shoulder and worked on a MASSIVE instrument, when I got to the violin half an hour later I could not play it! I would be on A string, thinking I am going to D string, but would land on G!!! my fingers were leaving gaps too big! being sore as well it was difficult to get re-accustomed to the TINY violin.

BUT I was also amazed by how EASY the violin strings are to press down compared to the bass, they feel like melted butter in comparison!

Anyway will give you another update soon off to bed shortly

I am so impressed - it sounds like you are making terrific progress. To state the obvious, the bass is HUGE! And those strongs are monsters. I had trouble with the C string on my cello to begin with and that is a baby compared to the Bass. And the dexterity required must be tremendous. I guess little and often will be the name of the game as your body adjusts and the muscle memory develops? Are there any really tiny/petite bass players?

Nice one Jojo, well done. Have you named it? Lol.

I brought home a couple of cellos to try and had my first cello lesson last Monday! Woo hoo.

As previously mentioned I played sax for 12 years but stopped about 6 years ago.

Once I managed to remember which string was which I did OK. I have to get used to the Bass cleff now after not having to think too much about the treble for so many years!

I've been away on holiday for a week and can't wait to get practising. If I can remember the lesson!

I think I will be without the bow for a while, we are using "a flying start" which is basic stuff but I know how important it si to get the basics right early on.

Excellent Tomo!!!
What an exciting time for you too!
Bass clef is 'cool' I am used to it as I did piano up to grade 3 and a half LOL only stopped it a year ago, found out I am really a 'string person'
My Bass is called Gandalf, see a picture of him under the 'post your photo' thread in this strings forum.
When do you have your next lesson?
I will have my lessons fortnightly, next one on 9th of May, can't wait!
My fingers are SO SORE from pressing those ropes on the bass
It is a really big thing to lug around, even just getting it out of the cupboard for practicing is a big chore, hope I get used to it soon enough.
If it is anything like getting used to the violin when I first started, it may take a month or so for the sore body parts to go away

please please keep us posted on your lessons and progress on this thread, we need to 'keep it alive'

We do! Let's fly the flag for the lower strings!

p.s. JoJo, have you thought about getting a stand for your bass so you don't have to struggle with getting it in and out all the time? It made a huge difference to my practice and sanity when I bought a stand for my cello. Might reduce the need for muscle power before you even start!

I thought about it even BEFORE I bought the bass, BUT I was so strictly bound financially I could not afford it, then when I went and bought a bass £200 OVER my extreme upper limit it went totally out of the question. It's about £50 to buy.
I have many things on my waiting list, the first is the dentist I need to have a tooth out and two others filled (maybe even root canal) so money will go on there, then we'll see what is next.
having said that I would not be happy to leave it on the stand 24hr a day as I have 3 mad cats at home and I do not fancy arriving home and finding the bass smashed on the floor.
The only rooms they are not allowed in are upstairs but I practice downstairs so the most suitable place seemed to be the cupboard under the stairs, away from my pesky pets and not having to lug it upstairs. BUT a stand is on the shopping list as when I am practicing and I need a little break I'd rather leave it on stand than to put it on floor or lean it in a corner.

Thanks Jojo. Great name, does he have a beard?

My next lesson is Monday week, no lesson due to the bank holiday . Never mind, I have just come back from holiday so have not had time to practise what I was told in my first lesson. Lots of time over the long weekend though

I find it a bit odd not being in tune every time due to poor finger placement. With my sax my tuning was pretty good. Just a few keys and a mouth piece!

I am off to the Luthier tommorrow to sort out a case and things. I love going to his shop. I don't need much of an excuse.......... it reminds me of an old artisan type place, smells, sounds and lovely instruments.

There's a nice coffe shop a few doors down too. It's a hard life !!

I understand - music is an expensive hobby sometimes and I also know about the vagaries of felines too having two mad Bengal cats myself who, rather insultingly, run a mile when I start to play my cello!

Miss Sooky, my cats also used to run to another room when I first started learning violin but now if they happen to be next to me when I start playing, they happily stay there.
Have they just got used to it? or is it a sign that I have indeed improved since 2 years ago? or maybe they are suffering from deafness in their old age?

ok, I feel REALLY depressed here guys/gals

I am finding learning double bass VERY VERY difficult and hard.

It is SUCH a struggle to get a nice sounding note out of it in half position, I have done 20 minutes practice and I feel like I have lifted weights at the gym all day

The first 5 minutes aren't too bad, I can get almost all notes sounding 'ok', the difficult notes are the ones on the E string (the thick rope on my right, the lowest string) and its neighbor the A string

Getting F is like 'MAJOR' and I mean 'MAJOR' body-work to make it sound nice. F is my first finger in half position, to get G with my fourth finger is SUCH A HUGE GAP that my hand does not stretch enough, I have to do a small shift to get there with my pinky!!!!

I am playing simple tunes like the national anthem, 'oh when the saints go marching in' etc, to play these at normal speed it's just TOO MUCH physical strain.

Practicing is not fun I am afraid, I almost dread it

please please can anyone tell me if these are normal feelings or might it be a warning sign that the bass is just not my cup of tea???

I remember enjoying learning the violin, couldn't wait to practice more, ok, at first I could only do 5 to 10 minutes before my neck/arm/shoulder were aching, but it didn't feel SUCH a STRUGGLE, I am KNACKERED!!!

violin was easy compared to this



Hey Gummidge, gone back on this thread and noticed you!

Have you got a bass now? I've just started last week! I have a 3/4 zeller fully carved, it's ok as a starter. I had one lesson so far and I using the book:
'Double Bass Solo 1' by Keith Hartley

You and me should 'stick together', I think we are the only 2 people who are just taking up double bass now, nice to have a 'companion'

I am finding it REALLY hard (see my previous post), let me know how you are doing.

I might feel slightly better....
as I was going through the syllabus for double bass ABRSM graded exams, I have seen one of the pieces I am practicing (and finding it 'fiddly/difficult), it's only on the GRADE 2 list!!!
No wonder I am finding it challenging, I've only had ONE lesson and she's given me grade 2 stuff already

Looking at it though it seems such a silly littly tune

If anyone wonders it's Tourtes (Camille Saint-Saens)

And another one I've done is on the Trinity Guildhall Grade 2 syllabus:
The Merry Peasant (Robert Schumann)

I am still depressed about the whole 'how hard it is' but feel a bit relieved that I am starting on grade 2 stuff whilst when I started violin I was doing open strings LOL

Hi Jojo - I am glad you're feeling a bit better. I don't play the double bass but I can imagine that you have the frustrations I encountered when I first played the cello magnified to the power of the double bass!

I think there might be general points about the lower strings which could be reassuring. The first is that the physical effort involved is considerable and so easy to underestimate. As you say, even the hassle of getting the instrument out and ready to play can feel like a marathon. Then when you start to play, there are the aches and pains which are really horrible. I am a fan of the Alexander Technique and I have also got a great book, aimed at Cellists but I think applicable to all lower string players, about using your body effectively to enhance playing. It is called 'New Directions in Cello Playing: How to Make Cello Playing Easier and Play Without Pain' by Victor Sazer. I think time will help, as will developing muscle memory but perhaps try reading the book and/or consider AT - the more you can get your body to work with you, the easier practice will be. I think a lot of dread might be linked, quite naturally, to discomfort - after all, not many of us want to do something that is tiring and uncomfortable!

I also think that it can take a lot longer than one expects or would like to achieve anything like reliable sounds on lower string instruments. My teacher used to try to reassure me that it was entirely normal to be making horrible sounds for ages. I thought she was just being kind but as I have improved and observed beginners, I have learned that she was right. The noises are unpredictable, tricky and sometimes downright horrible for far longer than most of us like! Each mistake is as much a part of progressing as each success.

Perhaps a chat with your teacher would be a good plan? She sounds lovely and I am sure that she is well used to pupils feeling overwhelmed by the double bass. And do post here if you want support - lower string players unite!

Hi miss sooky, thanks for reply.
wow, if they wrote a book about playing the cello without pain then I feel better that perhaps it is just a very difficult instrument to get used to physically and not me 'not liking it', but I have to say, it feels like I don't like it, but then I go back thinking why I wanted to take it up and it can't be that I don't like it, it must be this 'difficult to adapt phase' surely?

Oh yes, I will talk about it with my teacher, I see her next saturday

One thing is for sure: I am not giving this up too early, I have set myself a 'goal-post' which is: if I still find it painful/hard/a chore in one year of practicing daily then I will give up, but I think that won't be the case, I should be 'accustomed' to the bass by then and hopefully in a position to enjoy it to its full potential!

I find it really odd that I have this book (double bass solo I) that has mixed tunes from grade I to grade 5 difficulty, as I was learning violin I had to change 6 books on the way to grade 2!
Also the grade 5 pieces look easier than the grade 5 pieces in violin, but I think that must be because of the great distance your fingers have to go on a bass to play a wide range of notes and the added difficulty to play a good sound out of the bass (the physical difficulty).

None of this is surprising, and most of it will get better.

Re sound quality:

1) Bow weight, speed and position on the string are important, as I am sure you know from your violin playing, and you will find that you getter better coordination of these both as you learn the different sounds produced by varying the bowing and as you have to spend less time thinking about the demands on your left hand;

2) Consult with your teacher about the best strings for you at your present stage. You might do better at this stage with lighter third and fourth strings, possibly returning to your present ones when your fingers are stronger.

3) Many basses sound a bit muddy low down on the fourth string. In the orchestra they often have help from 'cellos, bassoon or bass tuba.

Re finger stretch:

1) Your stretch may increase with practice;

2) Difficult technical passages sometimes become easier in higher positions. not only because the stretch is less, but also because the strings are less resistant to depression there, which more than compensates for being on a lower string.

Thank you Kenm
the strings I have at present are spirocore.
I will take my bass to my teacher's house on my next lesson (next saturday) and she will tell me if the set up is good for me (ie is the nut too high etc etc as you may know), her and her husband make/restore/repair double basses so she will be able to help me out if needed.
I am afraid another set of strings is out of the question (money you see, and with the bass strings are expensive) so will suffer instead
Reassuring to hear my stretch may improve in time, if not I'll just have to shift every time, which will get easier with time I am sure.
Just can't wait for this hard phase to pass, hence will practice every day religiously to get out of it as quickly as possible!

Hi Jojo,

Don't despair! You sound like me when I first started learning the sax many moons ago.

I thought my jaw had dislocated. I over practised and my body just wasn't used to it.

I know nothing of the Bass but would suggest that things will improve with time.

I have been practising my new cello for the last three days and have to stop once my fingers and arm start to complain. I am sure that my muscles will learn in time.

Great looking Bass an Violin. You look cool too.

Good luck.

Thanks Tomo,
I really really hope that will be the case. You see, with violin I also had to get used to things and my shoulder/neck were sore during practice and fingers too, but I still enjoyed practicing, with the bass it's so hard I don't enjoy it, but I promise I will stick to it and can't wait for the day when I will look back and wonder why it was so hard!

Good thinking! I had forgotten that she hasn't seen it yet.

Improvement is not guaranteed, but all bass players have to do a lot of shifting, most of them more than I do, so you will soon get good at it.

I went to a concert on Sunday night that my cello teacher was playing in and the orchestra was playing a Tchaikovsky cello concerto. There was a fancy bit near the end in the solo part with lots of harmonics in the very highest registers. So I was telling my teacher last night that I really liked that part, and she said I could play those harmonics, though obviously not so fast. I looked at her as if she were mad, but she said really, I could, and she showed me where they were, and I got them! Then she showed me how to do a glissando hitting all the harmonics, and I did it! It was so exciting!

She also said I had beautiful tone, and she couldn't believe I had that sort of tone after only a month, normally it took years. I hadn't thought it was anything special, I thought that as someone who had reasonable tone on the violin, I ought to be able to transfer it to cello, but she said no, if anything as a violinist she expected my cello tone to be worse! So I am loving the cello right now!

(Still get confused by the fourth finger not being the same as the above open string though!)

fantastic stuff false harmonic
am really happy for you
it does boost your morale quite a lot when teachers pay you a compliment and even more when you know they mean it

I am also doing different kinds of harmonics lately, but that's on violin and that is an 'upper string' subject so I'll keep it out of this 'lower string' thread

Well done you - I am with your teacher because tone on the cello can be a real challenge. It sounds as though you have a terrific feel for the cello and the thing about the cello is that it will sing right back to you, almost purring, if you get it right!

Uh ohhhhhh, I'm in soooo much trouble for coming into this thread...Was supposed to be getting a cello last August, but due to problems with health, an exam board loosing my A-level results and the resulting chaos over university etc etc, we never really had chance to look into it properly...
so it's been postponed to this August...
and now, I'm really itching for one...and I want to be a part of this threeeeaaaaadddddddddddddd.
*goes to look up nice cellos on the internet to fulfill her need hehehe*